ADDS 1010 Green Alps Teardown
- bitemyweewee
- Location: Melbourne Australia
- Main keyboard: Deck Hassium - Cherry Blue
- Main mouse: Razer Deathadder 2013
- Favorite switch: Anything But Membrane
- DT Pro Member: -
Heya fellas!
Ripster and Pyrelink over at /r/MechanicalKeyboards recommended to come here to share a special discovery I've made.
I've picked up an ADDS 1010 Green Alps terminal keyboard in prestine condition at a garage sale for $4.
I've thrown together an imgur gallery of the Teardown: http://imgur.com/a/vq9iQ
I've already got a thread over there with discussion happening but I was told you're the bee's knee's for info so I figured I'd ask a few friendly questions
How much is this thing worth?
How would I go about creating an adapter to USB?
How rare are the green Alps?
When was this made?
I'm interested to know pretty much everything about it because I haven't been able to find a whole lot out there.
Thanks!
-bitemyweewee
Ripster and Pyrelink over at /r/MechanicalKeyboards recommended to come here to share a special discovery I've made.
I've picked up an ADDS 1010 Green Alps terminal keyboard in prestine condition at a garage sale for $4.
I've thrown together an imgur gallery of the Teardown: http://imgur.com/a/vq9iQ
I've already got a thread over there with discussion happening but I was told you're the bee's knee's for info so I figured I'd ask a few friendly questions
How much is this thing worth?
How would I go about creating an adapter to USB?
How rare are the green Alps?
When was this made?
I'm interested to know pretty much everything about it because I haven't been able to find a whole lot out there.
Thanks!
-bitemyweewee
- Muirium
- µ
- Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
- Main keyboard: HHKB Type-S with Bluetooth by Hasu
- Main mouse: Apple Magic Mouse
- Favorite switch: Gotta Try 'Em All
- DT Pro Member: µ
For the connector: have a look at this.
http://www.kbdbabel.org/conn/
Quite a few RJ10 versions in there. Perhaps it's one of those protocols?
http://www.kbdbabel.org/conn/
Quite a few RJ10 versions in there. Perhaps it's one of those protocols?
- kbdfr
- The Tiproman
- Location: Berlin, Germany
- Main keyboard: Tipro MID-QM-128A + two Tipro matrix modules
- Main mouse: Contour Rollermouse Pro
- Favorite switch: Cherry black
- DT Pro Member: 0010
Welcome to Deskthority, even if recommended by ripster
Obviously $4bitemyweewee wrote:[…] I've picked up an […] at a garage sale for $4.
[…] How much is this thing worth? […]
- bitemyweewee
- Location: Melbourne Australia
- Main keyboard: Deck Hassium - Cherry Blue
- Main mouse: Razer Deathadder 2013
- Favorite switch: Anything But Membrane
- DT Pro Member: -
Thanks! Maybe to the lovely old lady who sold it to mekbdfr wrote:Obviously $4
- bitemyweewee
- Location: Melbourne Australia
- Main keyboard: Deck Hassium - Cherry Blue
- Main mouse: Razer Deathadder 2013
- Favorite switch: Anything But Membrane
- DT Pro Member: -
How would I be able to tell?Muirium wrote:Perhaps it's one of those protocols?
- Muirium
- µ
- Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
- Main keyboard: HHKB Type-S with Bluetooth by Hasu
- Main mouse: Apple Magic Mouse
- Favorite switch: Gotta Try 'Em All
- DT Pro Member: µ
Good question. Informed guesswork, plus a resistance meter. I can't remember the rule, but generally you can test which pair VCC and GND are. Think it was Soarer who said this…
- Daniel Beardsmore
- Location: Hertfordshire, England
- Main keyboard: Filco Majestouch 1 (home)/Poker II backlit (work)
- Main mouse: MS IMO 1.1
- Favorite switch: Probably not whatever I wrote here
- DT Pro Member: -
- Contact:
The date range we have for [wiki]Alps SKCL Green[/wiki] switches is 1983–1989, and yours says ©1986, so that should give you an approximate date range of 1986–1989. From your photos, the case is only marked 19th December, without a year. Green Alps switches are neither common nor rare.
The enter key stabiliser is an Alps design but I'm guessing that's not an Alps PCB. I don't think they'd leave off their branding and part numbers.
What's interesting is the paint on the space bar switch slider — I'm guessing they've put a stiffer spring inside it and painted it to ensure it could be differentiated from a normal switch. I've never seen that before with Alps, suggesting that someone in Taiwan was swapping springs over. The Alps official part was [wiki]Alps SKCL Grey[/wiki] (stiffer linear). Hi-Tek on the other hand put just a dab of paint on the space bar sliders of space invader switches until such time as they started making them with dedicated slider colours (originally all their sliders were white).
Great photos, by the way. You should write a wiki page about the keyboard.
The enter key stabiliser is an Alps design but I'm guessing that's not an Alps PCB. I don't think they'd leave off their branding and part numbers.
What's interesting is the paint on the space bar switch slider — I'm guessing they've put a stiffer spring inside it and painted it to ensure it could be differentiated from a normal switch. I've never seen that before with Alps, suggesting that someone in Taiwan was swapping springs over. The Alps official part was [wiki]Alps SKCL Grey[/wiki] (stiffer linear). Hi-Tek on the other hand put just a dab of paint on the space bar sliders of space invader switches until such time as they started making them with dedicated slider colours (originally all their sliders were white).
Great photos, by the way. You should write a wiki page about the keyboard.
- bitemyweewee
- Location: Melbourne Australia
- Main keyboard: Deck Hassium - Cherry Blue
- Main mouse: Razer Deathadder 2013
- Favorite switch: Anything But Membrane
- DT Pro Member: -
I forgot to mention that I actually figured out that 3 year time gap. I was just reading the green Alps wiki, saw the manufacturing periods and came to the same realisation. Still weird that they don't have a year anywhere on the keyboard.Daniel Beardsmore wrote:The date range we have for [wiki]Alps SKCL Green[/wiki] switches is 1983–1989, and yours says ©1986, so that should give you an approximate date range of 1986–1989.
What's interesting is the paint on the space bar switch slider
Great photos, by the way. You should write a wiki page about the keyboard.
The spacebar thing is odd. Your theory makes perfect sense but when pretending to type on it I couldn't feel any variation. I might have to measure its actuation force seperately and find out.
I'd be honoured to write the wiki for this keyboard! I need to gather more Intel first so I can do it justice.
-
- Location: Houston, Texas
- Main keyboard: IBM Bigfoot
- Main mouse: CST trackball
- Favorite switch: IBM Model F
- DT Pro Member: -
You could figure out which lines are +5 and ground by tracing them to the 74LS14. The wire which leads to pin 14 would be +5, while the one leading to pin 7 would be ground. Assuming it's a PS/2-style interface, getting the other two connections (clock and data) wrong won't hurt anything. If it doesn't work one way, try the other.
If you're highly motivated and can't figure out the pinout and protocol, you could always install a TMK controller. http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/how- ... t7177.html
If you're highly motivated and can't figure out the pinout and protocol, you could always install a TMK controller. http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/how- ... t7177.html
- Daniel Beardsmore
- Location: Hertfordshire, England
- Main keyboard: Filco Majestouch 1 (home)/Poker II backlit (work)
- Main mouse: MS IMO 1.1
- Favorite switch: Probably not whatever I wrote here
- DT Pro Member: -
- Contact:
I dunno, I assume the space bar switch in my Filco is an MX Green, but I can't feel any clear difference between it and any adjacent MX Blue switch.
- Nuum
- Location: Germany
- Main keyboard: KBD8X Mk I (60g Clears), Phantom (Nixdorf Blacks)
- Main mouse: Corsair M65 PRO RGB
- Favorite switch: 60g MX Clears/Brown Alps/Buckling spring
- DT Pro Member: 0084
Just found a thread on Geekhack of the same keyboard but with Space Invader switches: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=56207.0
- bitemyweewee
- Location: Melbourne Australia
- Main keyboard: Deck Hassium - Cherry Blue
- Main mouse: Razer Deathadder 2013
- Favorite switch: Anything But Membrane
- DT Pro Member: -
Hey guys! Thanks for all your help with the resources and answering my queries. I still have one itching nag though, what do you think this thing's worth?
- 002
- Topre Enthusiast
- Location: Australia
- Main keyboard: Realforce & Libertouch
- Main mouse: Logitech G Pro Wireless
- Favorite switch: Topre
- DT Pro Member: 0002
I've seen a set of green switches (~100) sell for about $50USD. A crappy Zenith board on Yahoo Auctions with Green Alps sold for about 3100JPY which is about $30USD.
They are nice, but probably not really sought after as much as rare Cherry gear is, so I don't think you're really sitting on a gold mine with that one, sorry
They are nice, but probably not really sought after as much as rare Cherry gear is, so I don't think you're really sitting on a gold mine with that one, sorry
- Daniel Beardsmore
- Location: Hertfordshire, England
- Main keyboard: Filco Majestouch 1 (home)/Poker II backlit (work)
- Main mouse: MS IMO 1.1
- Favorite switch: Probably not whatever I wrote here
- DT Pro Member: -
- Contact:
Depends what they're after — I didn't realise how weird all the keycap sizes are.
Too bad about the arrow key arrangement as blue doubleshot Alps arrow keys are funky.
Too bad about the arrow key arrangement as blue doubleshot Alps arrow keys are funky.
- bitemyweewee
- Location: Melbourne Australia
- Main keyboard: Deck Hassium - Cherry Blue
- Main mouse: Razer Deathadder 2013
- Favorite switch: Anything But Membrane
- DT Pro Member: -
Figured out how to reverse engineer the keyboard matrix. Took me a while but I got there
Little confused why Shift & Ctrl are on an entirely separate column than the rest, will double check tomorrow, if am right I can just bridge 19 and 20 to save on using/programming an extra column?
Little confused why Shift & Ctrl are on an entirely separate column than the rest, will double check tomorrow, if am right I can just bridge 19 and 20 to save on using/programming an extra column?
Last edited by bitemyweewee on 17 May 2014, 02:20, edited 1 time in total.
- Muirium
- µ
- Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
- Main keyboard: HHKB Type-S with Bluetooth by Hasu
- Main mouse: Apple Magic Mouse
- Favorite switch: Gotta Try 'Em All
- DT Pro Member: µ
Apparently so. There are diodes in there, right? A separate column looks like a way to preserve rollover for those vital mods. Which shouldn't be a problem with a diode on every switch.
- Halvar
- Location: Baden, DE
- Main keyboard: IBM Model M SSK / Filco MT 2
- Favorite switch: Beam & buckling spring, Monterey, MX Brown
- DT Pro Member: 0051
Where is the second Shift key? Are the both the same electrically on your board?
Putting Shift and Ctrl in their own rows and columns is probably done to minimize the "ghosting" problem, because Shift and Ctrl are often pressed together with other keys.
http://deskthority.net/wiki/Rollover,_b ... d_ghosting
Putting Shift and Ctrl in their own rows and columns is probably done to minimize the "ghosting" problem, because Shift and Ctrl are often pressed together with other keys.
http://deskthority.net/wiki/Rollover,_b ... d_ghosting
- Daniel Beardsmore
- Location: Hertfordshire, England
- Main keyboard: Filco Majestouch 1 (home)/Poker II backlit (work)
- Main mouse: MS IMO 1.1
- Favorite switch: Probably not whatever I wrote here
- DT Pro Member: -
- Contact:
Column to coulomb … ? Must have posted it from an iPhone.
- photekq
- Cherry Picker
- Location: United Kingdom
- Main keyboard: Various Cherry Corp keyboards
- Main mouse: Razer Deathadder (1st gen)
- Favorite switch: Nixdorf 'Soft Touch' MX Black (55g springs)
- DT Pro Member: -
- Contact:
What a beautiful board. The same colour scheme as the NCR G81-3077. Those keycaps look like they're very close to Cherry profile, and the font looks quite similar to Cherry aswell. Very nice find!
- bitemyweewee
- Location: Melbourne Australia
- Main keyboard: Deck Hassium - Cherry Blue
- Main mouse: Razer Deathadder 2013
- Favorite switch: Anything But Membrane
- DT Pro Member: -
From the looks of PCB it seems to have diodes on most but it's hard to tell seeing as the diodes under the plate :/Muirium wrote:Apparently so. There are diodes in there, right? A separate column looks like a way to preserve rollover for those vital mods. Which shouldn't be a problem with a diode on every switch.
Left and Right Shift were electrically the same, yeah! I was surprised as well because other dupe keys are different... oh well.Halvar wrote:Where is the second Shift key? Are the both the same electrically on your board?
Nope, just a bad speller. Thanks though, will changeDaniel Beardsmore wrote:Column to coulomb … ? Must have posted it from an iPhone.
Thanks! I'm really happy with the find as wellphotekq wrote:What a beautiful board. The same colour scheme as the NCR G81-3077. Those keycaps look like they're very close to Cherry profile, and the font looks quite similar to Cherry aswell. Very nice find!
- bitemyweewee
- Location: Melbourne Australia
- Main keyboard: Deck Hassium - Cherry Blue
- Main mouse: Razer Deathadder 2013
- Favorite switch: Anything But Membrane
- DT Pro Member: -
Heya! Now that I've got the matrix I'm gonna go ahead with the purchase of a teensy, I think I'll be going with 2.0++ model as that's got a hefty amount of pins to populate :3 I do believe that should work with Hasu's firmware but please let me know if I'm wrong.
First time doing this so I'm stoked and clueless.
First time doing this so I'm stoked and clueless.
-
- Location: geekhack ergonomics subforum
- Favorite switch: Alps plate spring; clicky SMK
- DT Pro Member: -
I think you could probably get at least $50–60 for it on US ebay, judging from recent sales of other green Alps keyboards.
About that spacebar switch with the coloring on top: is that switch noticeably heavier than the others? I think it’s possible that the coloring is to indicate a stronger-weighted spring. I found some linear Alps switches with beigish sliders with some kind of black goop/marking on the top of them used for very heavy switches (used for a “break” key on a terminal keyboard).
About that spacebar switch with the coloring on top: is that switch noticeably heavier than the others? I think it’s possible that the coloring is to indicate a stronger-weighted spring. I found some linear Alps switches with beigish sliders with some kind of black goop/marking on the top of them used for very heavy switches (used for a “break” key on a terminal keyboard).
- bitemyweewee
- Location: Melbourne Australia
- Main keyboard: Deck Hassium - Cherry Blue
- Main mouse: Razer Deathadder 2013
- Favorite switch: Anything But Membrane
- DT Pro Member: -
It's a heavier spring yeah, haven't weighed it yet though. Will weigh it for my wiki entry. I've got another terminal keyboard in the mail with cherry blacks that's due for a tear down and wiki page as well.jacobolus wrote:I think you could probably get at least $50–60 for it on US ebay, judging from recent sales of other green Alps keyboards.
About that spacebar switch with the coloring on top: is that switch noticeably heavier than the others? I think it’s possible that the coloring is to indicate a stronger-weighted spring. I found some linear Alps switches with beigish sliders with some kind of black goop/marking on the top of them used for very heavy switches (used for a “break” key on a terminal keyboard).
-
- Location: geekhack ergonomics subforum
- Favorite switch: Alps plate spring; clicky SMK
- DT Pro Member: -
Here’s another example of an Alps switch with some goop the top of it indicating a heavier spring: http://www7.ocn.ne.jp/~hisao/image/pc8801.htm
Notice the "STOP" and "COPY" switches have a slightly different than normal click leaf, and a much heavier spring. The text says they are 200g to depress.
Notice the "STOP" and "COPY" switches have a slightly different than normal click leaf, and a much heavier spring. The text says they are 200g to depress.
- bitemyweewee
- Location: Melbourne Australia
- Main keyboard: Deck Hassium - Cherry Blue
- Main mouse: Razer Deathadder 2013
- Favorite switch: Anything But Membrane
- DT Pro Member: -
Problem: Following the guide to Hasu's keyboard firmware but it appears to only be for 60% keyboards. How do I find the necessary info for full size keyboards?
I'm assuming it makes no difference, but I don't know the names of the keys (when making the keymaps) that are excluded on the 60% units such as number-pad keys.
Here's what I've got so far:
Matrix:
config.h:
matrix.c
led.c:
keymap_common.h:
I just now have to figure out what to put in keymap_poker.c or keymap_plain.c (how do I make it point to that instead).
If anyone could please give me a hand that would be absolutely brilliant!
I'm assuming it makes no difference, but I don't know the names of the keys (when making the keymaps) that are excluded on the 60% units such as number-pad keys.
Here's what I've got so far:
Matrix:
Spoiler:
Code: Select all
/* key matrix size */
#define MATRIX_ROWS 9
#define MATRIX_COLS 13
Code: Select all
static void init_cols(void)
{
// Input with pull-up(DDR:0, PORT:1)
DDRD &= ~(1<<1 | 1<<2 | 1<<3 | 1<<4 | 1<<5 | 1<<6 | 1<<7);
PORTD |= (1<<1 | 1<<2 | 1<<3 | 1<<4 | 1<<5 | 1<<6 | 1<<7);
DDRE &= ~(1<<0 | 1<<1);
PORTE |= (1<<0 | 1<<1);
DDRC &= ~(1<<0 | 1<<1 | 1<<2 | 1<<3 | 1<<4);
PORTC |= (1<<0 | 1<<1 | 1<<2 | 1<<3 | 1<<4);
}
static matrix_row_t read_cols(void)
{
return (PIND&(1<<1) ? 0 : (1<<0)) |
(PIND&(1<<2) ? 0 : (1<<1)) |
(PIND&(1<<3) ? 0 : (1<<2)) |
(PIND&(1<<4) ? 0 : (1<<3)) |
(PIND&(1<<5) ? 0 : (1<<4)) |
(PIND&(1<<7) ? 0 : (1<<5)) |
(PINE&(1<<0) ? 0 : (1<<6)) |
//((PINB&(1<<0) && PINB&(1<<7)) ? 0 : (1<<8)) | // Rev.A and B
(PINE&(1<<1) ? 0 : (1<<7)) |
(PINC&(1<<0) ? 0 : (1<<8)) |
(PINC&(1<<1) ? 0 : (1<<9)) |
(PINC&(1<<2) ? 0 : (1<<10)) |
(PINC&(1<<3) ? 0 : (1<<11)) |
(PINC&(1<<4) ? 0 : (1<<12));
}
/* Row pin configuration
* row: 0 1 2 3 4
* pin: D0 D1 D2 D3 D5
*/
static void unselect_rows(void)
{
// Hi-Z(DDR:0, PORT:0) to unselect
DDRB &= ~0b11111111;
PORTB &= ~0b11111111;
DDRD &= ~0b00000001;
PORTD &= ~0b00000001;
}
static void select_row(uint8_t row)
{
// Output low(DDR:1, PORT:0) to select
switch (row) {
case 0:
DDRB |= (1<<0);
PORTB &= ~(1<<0);
break;
case 1:
DDRB |= (1<<1);
PORTB &= ~(1<<1);
break;
case 2:
DDRB |= (1<<2);
PORTB &= ~(1<<2);
break;
case 3:
DDRB |= (1<<3);
PORTB &= ~(1<<3);
break;
case 4:
DDRB |= (1<<4);
PORTB &= ~(1<<4);
break;
case 5:
DDRB |= (1<<5);
PORTB &= ~(1<<5);
break;
case 6:
DDRB |= (1<<6);
PORTB &= ~(1<<6);
break;
case 7:
DDRB |= (1<<7);
PORTB &= ~(1<<7);
break;
case 8:
DDRD |= (1<<0);
PORTD &= ~(1<<0);
break;
}
}
Code: Select all
void led_set(uint8_t usb_led)
{
if (usb_led & (1<<USB_LED_CAPS_LOCK)) {
// output low
DDRD |= (1<<6);
PORTD &= ~(1<<6);
} else {
// Hi-Z
DDRD &= ~(1<<6);
PORTD &= ~(1<<6);
}
}
Code: Select all
#define KEYMAP( \
K00, K01, K02, K03, K04, K05, K06, K07, K08, K09, K0A, \
K10, K11, K12, K13, K15, K16, K17, K18, K19, K1A, \
K20, K21, K22, K23, K24, K25, K26, K27, K28, K29, K2A, \
K30, K31, K32, K34, K35, K36, K37, K38, K39, K3A, \
K40, K41, K42, K43, K44, K45, K46, K47, K49, K4A, \
K5B, K5C, \
K60, K61, K62, K63, K64, K65, K66, K67, K68, \
K70, K71, K72, K73, K74, K75, K76, K77, K78, \
K80, K81, K82, K83, K84, K85, K86, K87, K88, K89\
) { \
{ KC_##K00, KC_##K01, KC_##K02, KC_##K03, KC_##K04, KC_##K05, KC_##K06, KC_##K07, KC_##K08, KC_##K09, KC_##K0A }, \
{ KC_##K10, KC_##K11, KC_##K12, KC_##K13, KC_NO , KC_##K15, KC_##K16, KC_##K17, KC_##K18, KC_##K19, KC_##K1A }, \
{ KC_##K20, KC_##K21, KC_##K22, KC_##K23, KC_##K24, KC_##K25, KC_##K26, KC_##K27, KC_##K28, KC_##K29, KC_##K2A }, \
{ KC_##K30, KC_##K31, KC_##K32, KC_NO , KC_##K34, KC_##K35, KC_##K36, KC_##K37, KC_##K38, KC_##K39, KC_##K3A }, \
{ KC_##K40, KC_##K41, KC_##K42, KC_##K43, KC_##K44, KC_##K45, KC_##K46, KC_##K47, KC_NO , KC_##K49, KC_##K4A }, \
{ KC_NO , KC_NO , KC_NO , KC_NO , KC_NO , KC_NO , KC_NO , KC_NO , KC_NO , KC_NO , KC_NO , KC_##5B , KC_5C }, \
{ KC_##K60, KC_##K61, KC_##K62, KC_##K63, KC_##K64, KC_##K65, KC_##K66, KC_##K67, KC_##K68 }, \
{ KC_##K70, KC_##K71, KC_##K72, KC_##K73, KC_##K74, KC_##K75, KC_##K76, KC_##K77, KC_##K78 }, \
{ KC_##K80, KC_##K81, KC_##K82, KC_##K83, KC_##K84, KC_##K85, KC_##K86, KC_##K87, KC_##K88, KC_##K89 }, \
}
If anyone could please give me a hand that would be absolutely brilliant!
-
- Location: geekhack ergonomics subforum
- Favorite switch: Alps plate spring; clicky SMK
- DT Pro Member: -
I’m too sleepy to think about this now, but I recommend you post in hasu's tmk_firmware geekhack thread: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=41989.0
- bitemyweewee
- Location: Melbourne Australia
- Main keyboard: Deck Hassium - Cherry Blue
- Main mouse: Razer Deathadder 2013
- Favorite switch: Anything But Membrane
- DT Pro Member: -
Thanks,jacobolus wrote:I’m too sleepy to think about this now, but I recommend you post in hasu's tmk_firmware geekhack thread: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=41989.0
Will do!