Gateron advice.

andrewjoy · 13 Nov 2015, 11:15

Hello All

As you may know i made some custom vintage blacks with korian springs and all the bells and whistles

However , i have come to the conclusion that they are just too light for me.

So i was thinking of getting some Gateron switch, they are on amazon quite cheaply now.

What i am looking for is something that is similar in weight to MX red but just a little bit heavier The black and yellow switch are listed as 50g i am guessing that thats about the same as MX blacks but i cannot be sure.

scottc · 13 Nov 2015, 11:55

That's what I wanted, and I ended up going for MX blacks with 55g and 62g springs. Both are quite nice.

HzFaq · 13 Nov 2015, 11:57

I've got a couple hundred sat here doing nothing, I can send you up some samples if you want to try some? I think I have blacks, clears and browns.

andrewjoy · 13 Nov 2015, 12:01

could you send a few of the blacks please , as long as they are in between black and red i think that would be best for me , the korian springs are just too light.

They will however work well in the game pad board i am still to get around to for the multi wide keys

Aparantly http://zealpc.net/collections/switches/ ... ealioclear are in between black and red MX but they are super expensive

flabbergast · 13 Nov 2015, 12:03

If you're really picky about the spring weight, you might not want to go with gateron springs - I've opened quite a lot of them (swapping springs on a few keyboards), and the gateron springs are not the same, even within the same "batch".

I've snapped a (bad quality) pic of the two types of springs I've found in gateron clears (35g): here. There were probably about 10-15% of the ones with less coils. They may be the same "weight", but they certainly have a bit different "profile" when pressing. The same happened with a batch of gateron reds.

HzFaq · 13 Nov 2015, 12:04

Sure, send me a message with your address and I'll stick a few in an envelope. Won't be until Monday now as I'm literally walking out the door for the weekend.

andrewjoy · 13 Nov 2015, 12:06

Hmm , thats interesting.

possibly to get the perfect switch then 55g or 62g Korean springs in a gateron ( for the smoothness).

At that point i may as well just spend on money on a novatocuh.

I will trail the few blacks from HzFaq ( if thats ok) and go from there.

kbdfr · 13 Nov 2015, 12:16

This thread has been opened over one hour ago
and Muirium hasn’t yet appeared to claim that any Gaterons are superior to any Cherry switch

Spoiler:

czarek · 13 Nov 2015, 14:27

andrewjoy wrote: ↑Hello All

As you may know i made some custom vintage blacks with korian springs and all the bells and whistles

However , i have come to the conclusion that they are just too light for me.

So i was thinking of getting some Gateron switch, they are on amazon quite cheaply now.

What i am looking for is something that is similar in weight to MX red but just a little bit heavier The black and yellow switch are listed as 50g i am guessing that thats about the same as MX blacks but i cannot be sure.

I have keyboards with MX Reds, MX Blacks (new and vintage, standard and modded) and one Filco with Gateron blacks. Out of all those, Gaterons are probably my favourite. They are very smooth (almost as smooth as vintage blacks) out of the box, and their weight is exactly spot on between Cherry Red and Black. Also the force curve seems to be a bit different. While cherries become heavier in kind of logarythmical way, those are perfectly linear to the bottom (which I believe is achieved by slightly different shapes of stems and contact leaves). I totally recommend them to anyone who likes linear switches, and definitely to those for whom reds are too light and blacks are too heavy. Those switches are spot on.

Muirium · 13 Nov 2015, 14:54

kbdfr wrote: ↑Muirium hasn’t yet appeared to claim that any Gaterons are superior to any Cherry switch

Sorry for being late. But it looks like Czarek has me covered!

I don't know Gaterons. I'll see about sourcing some from HzFaq and get back to you.

Nixie Mafia keeping an eye on these Gaterons.

yogimatt · 13 Nov 2015, 21:07

What weight Korean springs did you get that you felt were too light? I'm considering 65 or 67g linear zealios so this would be helpful to me, as zealio springs are weighed the same way, and they're probably from the same manufacturers.

vivalarevolución · 15 Nov 2015, 13:46

Disappointing to hearing about the difference in spring weight in Gaterons. I thought they had better quality control.

I found Gateron blacks to be lighter than Cherry Blacks. Cherry blacks can get really tiring to us after a while and that was not the case with Gateron Blacks.

Muirium · 15 Nov 2015, 14:42

I'll pop some Korean springs in my samplers. Hmm… better ask for more samplers!

keycap · 15 Nov 2015, 17:30

Go with 50-55g. Cherry MX Blacks are much heavier, in my experience, they are a bit heavier and more fatiguing than something like a Model M. The force rises quite aggressively, unlike Cherry MX Reds, which are a lot easier on your fingers.

vivalarevolución · 15 Nov 2015, 19:42

keycap wrote: ↑Go with 50-55g. Cherry MX Blacks are much heavier, in my experience, they are a bit heavier and more fatiguing than something like a Model M. The force rises quite aggressively, unlike Cherry MX Reds, which are a lot easier on your fingers.

One of the difficulties with Cherry Red or Gateron Clear is that the force is so low that you may have tons of accidental keypresses and also become fatigued from constant bottom out. In my experience, light springs that cause you to hit bottom and heavy springs that take a lot of effort to press are equally tiring.

shreebles · 16 Nov 2015, 11:25

Exactly, very light switches can also be tiring because they require so much concentration when you want to type without bottoming out for once. You just have to find something that matches the "default" strength and weight of your fingers. In my case, that's between 45 and 55cN of activation (edit: I meant actuation) force.

DanielT · 16 Nov 2015, 12:06

For me MX Blacks with 55g are perfect. I had also some 60g springs and have a board with them right now, I don't know what to say, somehow the 55g feel better don't know why. I still have to give them more testing time. MX Red don't feel quite right, don't know why, a little too light and somehow scratchy, MX Black are way better and the older they are the nicer they feel.
For Gaterons I'm not ready, the build quality doesn't please me at all, and I hate desoldering switches from working boards, so building a board only to see that I hate them no thanks. I have plenty of MX Blacks harvested from older boards so no motivation to play with Gateron.

shreebles · 16 Nov 2015, 12:12

Well if you change your mind, I will be putting a bag of Gateron Blacks on the market that I got from Massdrop.

By the way, by 55g you mean the spring weight? Because AFAIR on those the bottom-out force is measured. So, 55g custom springs should actuate around 45 like regular Reds, no?
However, I can see that they might feel different to Cherry Red springs if they are shaped differently. Three identical spring weights could bottom out at the same weight and still feel different.

andrewjoy · 16 Nov 2015, 12:13

Thanks guys, i will give a set of galtron blacks a go.

DanielT · 16 Nov 2015, 12:30

55g is the Korean rating, in theory they should be close to MX Red, in reality they feel different, the compression curve is way better and for long time typing they just feel better.
With the gaterons, considering that I use only GMK/Cherry caps I don't even want to experiment.

Muirium · 16 Nov 2015, 12:33

I'm willing to give them a try… so I can have the qualifications Kbdfr was asking for earlier in the thread!

Has anyone really investigated this Korean spring force curve stuff? I'd like charts and some kind of handle on how to convert between Korean and Cherry weights. I know it's not a simple matter of multiplication…

DanielT · 16 Nov 2015, 12:48

There are some old charts for the springs made by kbdmania and originativeco , I don't see them on the originativeco page anymore, I'll look for that stuff. Those curves don't apply for SPRiT springs, he redesigned the springs from scratch.
It would be interesting to make a study but I lack the time and tools for that. I only can say how it feels for me.
Edit: found this one:

andrewjoy · 16 Nov 2015, 14:15

What i think would be nice is something thats a little above actuation force of red but the force should increase so it does not bottom out so easily. From the sounds of it that is where the galtron blacks are at. My co called "super reds" can go in my access game pad board.

And then all this guff can go out of the window and i can just use my novatouch when i get it

.

vivalarevolución · 17 Nov 2015, 03:49

Yea, I would say that Gateron Blacks are definitely a bit above MX Red for activation force. I think the force gets a little heavier as you reach bottom. I certainly did not bottom out as much as I did with Reds.