Switches for people with arthritis?

scottc · 07 Jan 2014, 16:13

Hey all,

So here's a question that I haven't really found much about around the forums:
Does anyone have any experience with what kinds of switches are most comfortable for people with arthritis?

I'm thinking that Topre would be particularly good since the switches are quite easy on the fingers and they're really smooth and don't require much effort to use. Of course, it does depends on the particular person and so on just like any other discussion about switches, but I'm wondering if anyone has any experience or thoughts on the matter.

Any ideas would be appreciated!

kint · 07 Jan 2014, 16:42

I've thought about that before too. Afaik light motion on the sore joint(s) is good as long as it doesn't take too much force. I guess it can be compared to some RSI syndroms and I would consider the same keyboards/switches bringing relief.

Muirium · 07 Jan 2014, 16:47

No experience, but it's got to be Topre. Light and high activation. They're crying out to be in more ergo keyboards.

I guess the DataHand could be good or even better, depending on the person. I bet it's all about not bottoming out hard.

matt3o · 07 Jan 2014, 17:00

topre still has some force at the top of the travel. I'd say mx red would be better since the actuation point is close to the top and you have no bump at all. But I have no personal experience, so this is just an educated guess. Maybe Topre 33gr

scottc · 07 Jan 2014, 19:49

kint wrote:I've thought about that before too. Afaik light motion on the sore joint(s) is good as long as it doesn't take too much force.

Oh, that's interesting. I didn't actually know that, despite having mild arthritis myself. Thanks for the tip!

Muirium wrote:No experience, but it's got to be Topre. Light and high activation. They're crying out to be in more ergo keyboards.

I guess the DataHand could be good or even better, depending on the person. I bet it's all about not bottoming out hard.

matt3o wrote:topre still has some force at the top of the travel. I'd say mx red would be better since the actuation point is close to the top and you have no bump at all. But I have no personal experience, so this is just an educated guess. Maybe Topre 33gr

I would definitely love to make a custom board from Topre switches (I mean, who here wouldn't?!) but I don't see that happening any time soon for all the usual reasons.

What I'm really interested in is which part of the keypress would have the most impact on the finger joints: required activation force, length of travel, feedback from the "click", feedback from the bump of a tactile switch, bottoming out hard?

Muirium · 07 Jan 2014, 19:51

My guess is travel and, especially, bottoming out. A really high activation point on a very light switch seems like a good recipe. Although too much so, and false positives would be a problem.

bhtooefr · 07 Jan 2014, 19:54

So, a light spring mod on Matias Quiets, maybe?

scottc · 07 Jan 2014, 20:02

bhtooefr wrote:So, a light spring mod on Matias Quiets, maybe?

I've actually got a strange unnamed board here with clicky white ALPS clones here and it's never caused my hands any issues. I've got no idea about the switches apart from them being "clicky" and "probably white ALPS clones" but they're quite light and seem not to cause me any issues when typing if my hands are sore. I remember borrowing a really really stiff board with other clicky ALPS switches (can't remember whether they're clones or not) and after an hour or two my hands were aching.

Muirium wrote:My guess is travel and, especially, bottoming out. A really high activation point on a very light switch seems like a good recipe. Although too much so, and false positives would be a problem.

I think it's worth looking into. I've never really tried very light switches because I generally find that I like heavy, clicky ones. I'm also cursed with a love for buckling spring and particularly my heavy F AT!

Muirium · 07 Jan 2014, 20:05

Same here. Buckling spring is still my favourite. Model F especially.

A light Matias mod is worth a shot. I think the damping is more for sound rather than touch, but a super light Matias is something I'd like to see. You could quite easily make the switch linear, I've been told, while keeping the damping. The advantage to linears being that they can take arbitrarily light springs. Tactiles can bind a bit, as the weak spring struggles to push back up past the tactile bump, like people find with Ergo Clears.

scottc · 07 Jan 2014, 20:18

I actually have a Dell AT102W around here with black ALPS and I find the switches pretty unsatisfying. I hadn't really considered ALPS much due to the small selection of keyboards and caps and the fact that they're probably quite difficult to make comfortable custom boards with. Definitely want to try Matias out, though, just need an excuse to do it!

bhtooefr · 07 Jan 2014, 20:39

I'll note that Alps is actually the switch with the best potential for reduced pitch layouts, as far as I know - even slightly better than Topre!

16.75 mm pitch should be doable, versus 17 for the μTRON.

davkol · 07 Jan 2014, 22:17

Someone asked the same question about a year ago at GH, and eventually went with either 30g Topre, or modded MX Red w/ o-rings.

hoggy · 05 Feb 2014, 20:14

Don't forget to consider the whole experience.

Try to reduce the amount of typing by using a text expander (texter is free and simple to set up)

Vertical mouse?

lowpoly · 05 Feb 2014, 21:25

I have a keyboard built for very low activation force (and small movement radius). This one here:

http://www.incap.de/index.php?article_i ... rtnr=10149

No way you can touch type on this thing. Putting your hands on the homerow means you start typing. fffffffjjjjjjfff...

webwit · 05 Feb 2014, 21:32

Datahand.

eldorange · 23 Mar 2015, 09:38

webwit wrote: ↑Datahand.

Is there another option after Datahand?

I've had 2 accidents before...resulted to left arm, lower left palm, and index finger slight injuries (I am left-handed unluckily)...DAILY slight numbness and uneasiness of these body parts...Consulted 3 orthopedic doctors already...no need for surgery/rehab...just daily Vitamin B...but still no cure...

Is a μTron a good alternative or other ergonomic keyboards/Matias/Cherry MX? Any suggestions? Thanks...

fohat · 23 Mar 2015, 13:28

This has been discussed on Geekhack several times.

I believe that a tactile switch is invaluable as a confirmation that it has been activated.

O-rings will probably help with any shock at the bottom.

Alps switches activate high up, and the blues are very nice, but rare and expensive.

I learned to type on a manual typewriter (yes, I really am that old) and the technique there is to use the wrist to snap the finger like a spear onto the key. I don't know whether that might help or hurt.

zts · 23 Mar 2015, 16:07

For my mother-in-law, who has a milder case of arthritis, I got Filco TKL with Cherry MX Red. Added 2mm O-rings, landing pads (soft), Tai-Hao PBT keycaps (any nicely textured PBTs will do) that should reduce accidental fingers slips. Doubled the O-rings under the spacebar. She says it helps her tremendously, but I'm not sure if she's just polite or if it's really that much better for her. But, in theory it should help.