The Switch Try Bag....

I should note that I have tried all of the cherry mx switches before on a tester keyboard and my opinion of them is still the same after trying the switch bag so I copy pasted my statements from earlier for the cherry switches.

Blues : In my opinion what differentiates this switch is it's increased tactile feedback and its sound. I do not really like the sound, not so much just based on the sound alone, which can even sound soothing while being quite loud, but for the connection of the feedback that comes at the same time as the sound. I don't really like the clicky sound while typing which to me seems cheap, hollow, and plasticity. Strangely I don't mind it if someone around me types on blues in regards to the sound even though I don't like it while typing myself. One thing I do really like about blues is the increased feedback vs browns. However I found myself wishing for a switch with not only high tactile feedback on a light spring but also one that feels more solid.

Browns : The tactile bump is there but it is very small. While typing fast the tactile bump disappears, making it feel like a slightly heavier linear red, but while typing lightly or deliberately like you would while gaming the bump is more apparent. I really think that this switch is great at everything but best at nothing.

If you like light switches this will likely be your second favorite for specific uses. If you use your keyboard for a lot of tasks i.e. gaming and typing equally this is the switch I would go for.

Reds : Even though this linear switch uses the same spring as blue and brown this switch seems noticeably lighter for me. I really like it yet at the same time I really don't know what to make of it as linear switches are very different from rubber domes and all of the other cherry switch types which all have some form of tactile feedback somewhere in the key press. The switch is so light that the bottom out seems harsh. This is calmed a bit by o rings. Personally I wouldn't like reds without o rings but with them they are very nice.

I really love light switches, so I would say that I like these more for their lightness then for their linear nature which I still do not fully know what to make of even after using it regularly for a few months for gaming.

Blacks : Even though I don't like heavier springs as much as lighter springs I do not find these off putting like many do in other reviews. Most criticisms of this switch state that after typing on them for awhile they become fatiguing. Personally I think anyone could adapt to them being heavier and therefore make long term typing fine. However in my testing I like lighter switches more so I do not see any reason why I should take the time to adapt to them over another switch as nothing else in blacks draws me into trying them long term.

Clears : These feel like heavy browns to me. I know that this is likely an oversimplification but that is what my hands feel while typing on them in that while typing fast the bump goes away yet while typing deliberately the bump is apparent.

Also one thing I noticed while testing the switches on a keyboards vs the try bag is that the heavier springs feel lighter to me while testing individual switches vs what they feel like on a keyboard but that might be just me.

Ergo clears (clears with brown springs) : I had an extra clear stem and extra springs so I threw in another switch to the US/Canada try bag. I sharpied the top and bottom of the stem to differentiate it from the clear.

I like these yet I can really see why they are a niche favorite even beyond the fact that you have to mod them into a keyboard. As I have stated above I like lighter switches and like a tactile bump for typing. In this category blues have a bigger bump then browns and reds do not have them at all. I like the bump in blues but not the noise and feel of blues. Ergos fill this hole of higher tactile feedback, quiet and solid, as well as light that I want however they have some shortcomings. Ergos have a massive bump and have rightly been called sticky by those who dislike them. By this I mean that the bump is so big that when the switch rebounds the switch can feel sluggish to spring back, and if modded wrong can even get stuck halfway. I tested the switch to make sure it doesn't stick, however in general the rebound can feel sluggish like other erogs I have used before.

I like these because I type a lot more then I game on my main computer so browns are a bit too much of a compromise as I really like the bump. Also while deliberately and repetitively pressing them the sluggishness is more apparent vs typing. Therefore I do not like them for gaming where you tend to continually press and rest your fingers on the same keys to move around or perform repetitive tasks which is why I favor reds for gaming.

Overall position on cherry MX: Overall I like light switches vs heavier switches. None of the switches to me are the be all end all so for my personal use I went with the two which I think best fit certain situational uses. I use ergo clears for the large tactile bump on my typing keyboard. Where as for gaming I use ghetto reds as they are extremely light and a large tactile bump isn't always the best for gaming. If I had to use only one type of switch I would go with browns as they do everything well in the categories that I care about even though they are not my favorites for any specific task.

Cherry ML: I spent the most time testing this switch and sadly I still don't fully know what to make of it. It has a tactile bump and a short travel but it feels stiffer then I would like. With that said I may pick up a cheap ML board sometime in the future to try them out more thoroughly. However they really didn't stand out to me or leave an impression so I likely won't bother to try them again.

ALPS: As I have tested all of the cherry mx switches before I was looking forward to trying alps again. I used to have a dell with them but that was so long ago that I had forgotten how they felt.

Overall I can sum up my opinion of alps simply. To me all of the alps switches seemed non distinct. In a cherry switch each part of the keypress seems to come at a very specific point where as alps seems to be more variable and less smooth during each stage of a keypress. This alone is enough for me to give alps as pass regardless of type so I won't bother differentiating them.

I shipped the bag off to the next person in line earlier today.
BossBorot

Unread post31 Jan 2012, 23:14

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Received and clicking!
Floodge

Unread post03 Feb 2012, 20:45

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Floodge
 
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Main keyboard: Logitech Media
Main mouse: Ikari Laser
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BossBorot wrote:...then...then...then...then....

^then^than
(i.e. you have your conjunction and preposition confused with the adverb. ;-)

Thanks for the review! I wonder if the ALPS-complicated in this set is old, worn out, and/or dirty. I came to this scene from a torrid love affair with a Magitronic FK-5001 that ended in her sad demise a few years ago. Cherry MX Blues are as close as I've come to replicating that magical typing experience, but the Cherries lack the authority that the ALPS-complicateds had (they feel kind of loose and insecure). From the reviews of it here, it sounds like the included ALPS switch is old and worn out, which isn't really a fair comparison.
captain
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Unread post04 Feb 2012, 09:09

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Main keyboard: main? main? what is main?
Main mouse: Mickey
Favorite switch: it's complicated
 
 
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zN1WSkFXmzU[/youtube]
@Mr.Interface
No bag until now. Taietzel told me that he sent the bag. I've sent you a PM, explaining everything.
filimonovici

Unread post04 Feb 2012, 21:29

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Main keyboard: Cherry G80-3000LQCEU-0
Main mouse: Logitech Performance Mouse MX
Favorite switch: Still trying to figure out.
 
I've realized from partaking in this fine assortment of switches that I have a I am not a huge linear switch fan. I like the click and love the clack, and the more tactile and loud the better! Perhaps this is why I have recently gone over to the Spring Side. :geek:

Clear - Very polarizing switch. Like clicking on a pebble. No me gusta.
Blue - Clickity Clackity. I have a Das Ultimate with these and enjoy it. All around good switch.
Brown - Feels like a toned down clear. Tactile yet quiet.
Red - Very smooth, linear, and easy to push. Almost a little too much so.
Black - Tougher red.
MX - I would love a laptop with these! Feels like a baby brown with far less travel distance.
Grey Clicky Alps - Long lost cousin of the Blues. Nice clicking sound and satisfying feel when bottoming out.
White Complicated Dampened Alps - Has a lot in common with the clear and brown.
Black Complicated Alps - Lots of resistance on top of mush. Least favorite.

Edit: I've contacted and am waiting to hear back from the next on the list to pass it on! :)
Floodge

Unread post05 Feb 2012, 04:03

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Hi there.
The STBAG, just arrived this evening. I'm already testing the switches. One thing to mention.
The keycap which is on the MX brown switch has the left side broken. Tomorow I will post a picture of it.
filimonovici

Unread post09 Feb 2012, 20:45

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Main keyboard: Cherry G80-3000LQCEU-0
Main mouse: Logitech Performance Mouse MX
Favorite switch: Still trying to figure out.
 
Good to see the europe bag is still alive and kicking..

This bag will receive a Topre key and a Buckling Spring key soon.....

Regards.
Mrinterface
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Unread post09 Feb 2012, 21:45

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Posts: 1382
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Main keyboard: Omnikey evolution
Main mouse: G9
Favorite switch: Monterey blues
Club member: 0012
 
 
To boldly go where no innovator has gone before : always engage at full trust.
Glad to hear it arrived safely; I was a bit worried that with this weather it would be forgotten somewhere :|
filimonovici wrote:The keycap which is on the MX brown switch has the left side broken.

Yeah, the switch broke sometime ago, I remember reading a poster say he beefed up the packaging jik.
Still it arrived pretty worn out so I repackaged it; hope filimonovici didn't have too hard of a time opening it, duct tape n' all :D
Taietzel
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Unread post10 Feb 2012, 11:33

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I didn't spent too much time with the "unpackaging" (tearing up everything), but the surprise came out when I saw that after the air bubble envelope, there was another paper pack or something, and after that came out another cardboard package, and after opening that there was an air bubble bag containing the STBAG ..... yeeeeeeeeaaaaaaa!!!!!

Some say that ASCAII make some earthquake resistant packaging, but this is unbeatable ... :D
filimonovici

Unread post10 Feb 2012, 22:07

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Main keyboard: Cherry G80-3000LQCEU-0
Main mouse: Logitech Performance Mouse MX
Favorite switch: Still trying to figure out.
 
I received the bag 3 days ago and I have been giving them a feel each night to see if my initial impressions overtime changed and it has.

In general I ended up liking the Alps over the Cherries.

Most of the Cherries either overcompensated or under-compensated on tactile feedback making the button pushing experience more stressful on the finger. The exception was the Cherry Blue.

The one grave flaw with the Blue was the noise it makes is sharp on the ears (this was a fatal problem of the Grey Alps as well).

If I was doing lots of typing a Blue would be my preference as long as I'm not around other people. It's grating on my ears but I could eventually tolerate it. My coworkers would hate it.
As a result the Black Nonclicky or the White Dampened would be the next best choice.

But my primary concern is gaming. The blues are great if you like to play with headphones on but I don't so its sound is still a big negative.

At first my preference was a cherry brown but overtime the red has grown on me much more as a tool for longer gaming sessions and where key commands have you hold down the button alot. The blues are stylistically different and I think are best served by games where touch typing your key commands is highly preferable to holding them down.

In theory with the browns you can touch type because they have a similar stop gap like the blue and not have the obnoxious noise but so far I've been bottoming out with it as badly as the Red and the Red is far less stressful on my fingers.


Now for some unscientific data:

Induces Most Bottoming Out:
Grey Clicky Alps, Blue [Least]
Clear
Black

Black Nonclicky Alps, White Dampened Alps


Red, Brown [Most]

Tonal Quality:
Black [Muted]
White Dampened Alps

Clear, Red

Brown, Black Nonclicky Alps

Blue, Grey Clicky Alps [Sharp]


Most Resistive:
* [Least]
Red
Blue*
Brown

Grey Clicky Alps
White Dampened Alps
Black Nonclicky Alps

Black
Clear [Most]



Most Push Back:
* [Least]
Brown
Blue*
**
Red

Black Nonclicky Alps
White Dampened Alps
Grey Clicky Alps**

Black
Clear [Most]


The Stars signify the position of the Key if you were touch typing instead of pounding away on the keys and usually going past the point when a command is registered and thus increasing the chance of bottoming out.

Any keys that are next to each other in commas are stylistically different and which one is more different (and at an underlying level worse) than the other is going to be a lot more subjective in my opinion.

If someone knows of a key that is like the blues without the poor tonal quality and obviously wasn't part of the switch bag I had I would like to know.
mutantmagnet

Unread post19 Feb 2012, 15:33

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Thanx for that extensive keyswitch review!

To answer your question about the key that is like the blues : you will quiet probably like the monterey blues ( alps lookalike ) on the chicony kb-5181.
I'm planning on putting this switch inside the switch try bag in the near future.

Regards.
Mrinterface
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Unread post20 Feb 2012, 14:40

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To boldly go where no innovator has gone before : always engage at full trust.
Hello guys,
Please excuse my delayed review of the STBAG, but some unfortunate events kept me away from the PC. In a few words, I fell off a crane, had quite a few broken bones and had to stay two weeks in hospital. Fortunately everything ended well and now I'm home again.
So, about the switches!Well, I thought that instead of going with the usual description of my interpretation about the feel of the switch, to make more like a description of the switch with PRO and CON, and a verdict at the end, whether I like it or not. My advice is that everyone should do like this, because this way will be much easier for the others to understand the switches and see exactly how many people love the MX blacks for example. No one should loose time by deciding whether that the conclusion of that Shakespearean review was that you do like or don't like the switch.
Ok than, let's start:

Cherry ML switch
Shorter travel distance, only 3mm
A little bit stiffer than the Cherry MX switches
Gives a small almost imperceptible tactile feedback although the switches are stated as linear
If the keypress is not dead center it becomes more stiffer and frictiony
Ideal for a notebook keyboard
VERDICT: Would love it if it were smoother.

Cherry MX Blue
Clicky and loud if many (one switch in this case has a pleasant click)
Almost unnoticeable tactile feedback when typing fast (this is what a touch typist does)
I found it just a little bit heavier than the MX Red
Excellent choice if you don’t work in a silent environment
Not for gamers
VERDICT: Don’t like it

Cherry MX Red
Linear and very light
Smooth key travel with no tactile feedback
Very easy to bottom out, resulting in a loud keyboard
In my opinion, not good for heavy text processing and touch typists, very good for gamers in search for a lightning fast keyboard
Verdict: I like it.

Cherry MX Black
This is a heavy switch
Linear with no tactile feedback
Smooth key travel with increasing resistance, resulting in a much silent keyboard
Hard to bottom out
Not good for heavy text processing and touch typists, but very good for gamers who are slamming the keys during gamens
Verdict: Ilike it

Cherry MX Brown
This switch is almost identical to the blue
Has a small tactile feedback, but no click
It’s an all around switch
Verdict: I don't like it

Cherry MX Clear
A little bit more heavier than the black switch
Smooth key travel with a very pronounced bump, resulting in a very good tactile feedback
Very hard to bottom out, resulting in a much more silent keyboard
Excellent for heavy text processing, forget about gaming
Some say that it is a rare breed
Verdict: I like it best

White complicated dampened ALPS
Tactile
Non clicky
A little friction to the key travel (might be only this switch)
Very average
No gamers
Verdict: Don’t like it

Black complicated ALPS
Seems that without the dampening these switches turn out much better
Tactile, nonclicky
Less friction than the white ALPS
No gamers
Verdict: I don’t like it

Grey clicky APLS
This switch it’s a Cherry clear with a click
Very loud click (compared to the Cherry MX Blue)
Very satisfying key action, excellent for typing
No gamers
Verdict: I like it very much
filimonovici

Unread post27 Feb 2012, 00:13

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filimonovici
 
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Favorite switch: Still trying to figure out.
 
I hope you get well quick Filimonovici! Thanx for that excellent keyswitch review.

Both switch try bags will be returning home so I can add more goodies.
Mrinterface
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Unread post27 Feb 2012, 08:15

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To boldly go where no innovator has gone before : always engage at full trust.
Thank you Mr.Interface,
It is already going in the right direction. Today the medics told me that I won't suffer side effects from my injuries.
I'm pleased that you liked my review. I hope that it will be useful for someone.
filimonovici

Unread post27 Feb 2012, 23:56

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filimonovici
 
Posts: 48
Joined: 07 Jan 2012, 22:53
Location: Italy
Main keyboard: Cherry G80-3000LQCEU-0
Main mouse: Logitech Performance Mouse MX
Favorite switch: Still trying to figure out.
 
Just received the STBAG today!


Edit: This might be the wrong thread. I think, try-before-you-buy-f29/the-switch-try-bag-version-2-conus-europe-worldwide-t2983-60.html, is the right thread for this response.
naisanza

Unread post18 Dec 2012, 06:30

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naisanza
 
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Correct... :-)
Mrinterface
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Unread post18 Dec 2012, 09:29

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To boldly go where no innovator has gone before : always engage at full trust.
filimonovici wrote:Hello guys,
Please excuse my delayed review of the STBAG, but some unfortunate events kept me away from the PC. In a few words, I fell off a crane, had quite a few broken bones and had to stay two weeks in hospital. Fortunately everything ended well and now I'm home again.
So, about the switches!Well, I thought that instead of going with the usual description of my interpretation about the feel of the switch, to make more like a description of the switch with PRO and CON, and a verdict at the end, whether I like it or not. My advice is that everyone should do like this, because this way will be much easier for the others to understand the switches and see exactly how many people love the MX blacks for example. No one should loose time by deciding whether that the conclusion of that Shakespearean review was that you do like or don't like the switch.
Ok than, let's start:

Cherry ML switch
Shorter travel distance, only 3mm
A little bit stiffer than the Cherry MX switches
Gives a small almost imperceptible tactile feedback although the switches are stated as linear
If the keypress is not dead center it becomes more stiffer and frictiony
Ideal for a notebook keyboard
VERDICT: Would love it if it were smoother.

Cherry MX Blue
Clicky and loud if many (one switch in this case has a pleasant click)
Almost unnoticeable tactile feedback when typing fast (this is what a touch typist does)
I found it just a little bit heavier than the MX Red
Excellent choice if you don’t work in a silent environment
Not for gamers
VERDICT: Don’t like it

Cherry MX Red
Linear and very light
Smooth key travel with no tactile feedback
Very easy to bottom out, resulting in a loud keyboard
In my opinion, not good for heavy text processing and touch typists, very good for gamers in search for a lightning fast keyboard
Verdict: I like it.

Cherry MX Black
This is a heavy switch
Linear with no tactile feedback
Smooth key travel with increasing resistance, resulting in a much silent keyboard
Hard to bottom out
Not good for heavy text processing and touch typists, but very good for gamers who are slamming the keys during gamens
Verdict: Ilike it

Cherry MX Brown
This switch is almost identical to the blue
Has a small tactile feedback, but no click
It’s an all around switch
Verdict: I don't like it

Cherry MX Clear
A little bit more heavier than the black switch
Smooth key travel with a very pronounced bump, resulting in a very good tactile feedback
Very hard to bottom out, resulting in a much more silent keyboard
Excellent for heavy text processing, forget about gaming
Some say that it is a rare breed
Verdict: I like it best

White complicated dampened ALPS
Tactile
Non clicky
A little friction to the key travel (might be only this switch)
Very average
No gamers
Verdict: Don’t like it

Black complicated ALPS
Seems that without the dampening these switches turn out much better
Tactile, nonclicky
Less friction than the white ALPS
No gamers
Verdict: I don’t like it

Grey clicky APLS
This switch it’s a Cherry clear with a click
Very loud click (compared to the Cherry MX Blue)
Very satisfying key action, excellent for typing
No gamers
Verdict: I like it very much


excelente. thank you
chimborazo

Unread post20 Dec 2012, 05:56

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