deskthority

I've long wondered why there has never been a set of keys for the ErgoDox that have legends. Without getting into the argument for blank keycaps, some people strongly prefer legends on their keys. It seems that usually the keycaps available for the Ergodox are either a completely blank set, or a set up blank modifiers that can be added to keycaps of the letter and number keys.

Of course I understand the issue of customization. Almost every ErgoDox out there has a different custom layout. Selling a set of keycaps carved in stone (so to speak) is limiting to many. That said, it seems that there are plenty of people who would want a set of keycaps ready to go.

I noticed squarefrog's thread on organizing a group of ErgoDox layouts to make it easier to figure out which keys are most commonly used (http://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/erg ... t7580.html) which is great. The result was the dataset at http://dox.codeslingers.co.uk/ which breaks down which keys are used for each non-1u keycap size (1.5u horizontal, 1.5u vertical and 2u vertical). The only problem with the data is that it doesn't break down the key usage by row, which can be important in designing key sets for some keycap families.

Some people might have noticed my attempt to get a set of keycaps with legends as part of the upcoming group buy led by matt3o for his SA Retro design (http://deskthority.net/group-buys-f50/i ... 6-240.html). Part of the problem is that it is very difficult to get double-shot keys that are optimal for the ErgoDox, particularly for the vertical keys (of which there are 8 on the ErgoDox) – it seems the molds are set up to only for horizontal legends. Another problem is getting keys that match the correct row numbers (and in the case of SA Retro - the correct colors). These all limit your options when creating a set of keycaps with legends, because one cannot swap keys that are the wrong size, the wrong orientation, the wrong color, etc.

I think it would be a good idea to create a set of key legends for group buys that many people would like. I don't want to argue on the benefit of using blank keycaps. If you want blank keycaps on your ErgoDox, you have plenty of options. I also think it's a waste of time to argue that it's impossible to come up with a keycap set for ErgoDox that has legends. 99.999% of people who use keyboards don't have any customization ability, and they're okay with that. Some people want the ErgoDox because they can build it themselves, because it's split, etc. That doesn't mean they need blank keys so their keyboard is infinitely customizable. Some people just like printed keys. I see this set as a Modifier Set that would be an add on to a full Ergodox set (that has legends on letter and numbers, but blank modifiers) or as an alternative to a blank modifier set.

As a starting point, below is my proposed ErgoDox Modifier Set for the SA Retro GB. As far as I know, this will not be part of SA Retro, but it's still useful for a starting point. Some of the issues in this set are due to SA Retro's use of three colors. A set with a single color, or at least a single color for modifiers, would allow for a few of these keys to be removed.
Some notes on the layout:

- I was told by matt3o that legends cannot be rotated for vertical keys, except for the Return key for which there is a vertical mold.
- I like the idea of media keys in the middle modifiers, although without properly rotated legends, this might be a bit awkward. I added a set of 1u media keys that can be used on the bottom row as well.
- Because of the three colors, some of these keys are duplicated for purposes of keeping the color scheme intact. Without so many colors, some of these keys could be eliminated (and replaced by different options).
- I don't have a problem with sideways legends for the large modifiers, but not everything works so well (such as the { [ and } ] keys).
- I didn't have a complete list of what legends were available. I don't know if there is something appropriate for layer switching, but I assumed there was not. Instead I added in Program and Fn and assumed that users would buy the full ErgoDox set (which has blanks for all the modifiers) and could use blanks for keys that they want for layer switching.
- I have arrow keys that can be along the bottom row, can be set up as 4-way by moving the ? / key into the bottom row, and moving the arrow key up to its place, and a separate R3 set that can be placed in one of the thumb clusters. The need for the brown R4 ? / is due to the different color of the letter key and the modifier key.
- The Commodore logo used in this set can be considered the same as Super as far as I'm concerned (i.e. in another set these could be labeled SUPER or use whatever icon is available to use).
- There are simple 1 and 2 keycaps in the left thumb cluster meant to allow switching quickly between layers 1 and 2.

Okay, so the goal is to come up with a consensus on a set of modifiers for future group buys. What do people think of the set above and the variations present (allowing many variations but obviously not all). Would you be interested in buying a set of these modifiers in a group buy in the future? Which keys are not present that you think are absolutely necessary for such a set?

There is sometimes an ErgoDox ("ErgoDoxian") kit as part of a group buy of keycaps. The "granite" set on Massdrop now has one for instance. However, it is most often only for US-ANSI and the default layout in the layout editor.
Many people customize their layouts to make the extra keys do other things.

ErgoDoxian is great, but it's not a complete modifier set – it has 19 keys, of which not more than 16 can be used on the keyboard at one time. It also has no consideration of rows as far as I can tell - which means it won't work well with contoured key families.

What I'm proposing is a set that includes legends for all 36 keys that make up the modifiers and the bottom row, and are row-specific when possible to allow for contoured families like SA. I'm also suggesting alternate keys so it is highly customizable – the above set has I believe 83 keys, although in a set with fewer colors, that could be reduced a bit.

Because there are so many variations for what to put on those modifiers that I think most people would prefer them blank rather than paying for a large variation of printed caps that still may not have the desired symbol.

If you search geekhack you’ll find several threads where people tried to figure out good sets of legends:
https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=e ... ekhack.org

It’s a pretty tough problem though. The ergodox is a different enough physical layout that each person has a different idea of what the logical layout should be.

I don’t use an Ergodox anymore, but the layout I had by the end of the month I was using it only has a few keys overlapping with your proposal here.

I guess if your goal is to market the keyboard at a more general audience of people who don’t want to think about custom layouts, and instead you’ll dictate what their layout should be (or maybe give them a 2–4 set layouts to choose between), then it could work.

TL;DR: This would be amazing. But it's infinitely simpler in a single color.

Long version:
Some parts of my mod layout match yours (left column and bottom row on the left hand), whereas others are entirely different... and so it begins:

The basic problem is complex enough:
* Available keycap sizes must match the physical layout (two users may prefer a given key to be in a 1u or 1.5u location);
* Orientation of legends can differ (two users may prefer the same key in X or Y orientation. This is the case comparing your layout with mine);

* This becomes much more complex if using a sculpted key family, as now the relative row and column positions affect the physical height and slope of each keycap molding;

And that's just for single-color keycaps.
* Proposing three different keycap colors adds more dimensions of complexity, because re-arranging the caps might be OK physically but not visually (resulting in random color positions).

I salvaged caps from two different keyboards in order to get legends on one side of my Ergodox.
But it's still sub-optimal.
To the point where I never bothered with the other half, and just left it blank.

So although I would love a fully personalized set of caps, it's so difficult to achieve in practice (even in a single color) that I've pretty much learned to live without it.

I don't intend to discourage you, but the various colors etc. make a known problem even more challenging.

I've wondered the same thing. I guess the problem is that the layout is so non-standard, everyone ends up needing separate layouts.