webwit wrote:The_Ed has strong opinion, but didn't actually use 103, as opposed to a bunch of Korean keyboard nuts.

I tried 100 and 106. 103 is between them in viscosity so I can easily imagine what it's like. 205 was the first one I found usable. I think 204 would be my next choice to try based on the previous 3 krytox lubes. That or I could just use 205 on a whole board and be done with it since I liked it.

Okay.. I think I have written up way too much text so far. I will try to keep it short.

Best solution I found along the journey of lube business was Krytox oil + grease mix. Thin coat of grease + oil spread evenly worked best. Only oil was good enough. Only grease was not good enough. RO-59 was good but left something to be desired.

Here is what I tried so far. The Krytox collection by itself cost me some hundred dollars. I don't know why but lyrics of a pop song came to my mind. "Hey I just met you this is crazy, here is my Krytox collection believe me maybe?"

BTW Limmy, do you know what the koreans add as supplement to the motor oil for the springs?

Personally I have never tried the Krytox stuff. However the RO59 is just amazing. It turned my scratchy black switches comparable to the vintage ones.
It left absolutely no mess and completely removed the friction.
I don't think I would be happy with greese or oil on the plastic parts of the slider, and the side rails of the lower switch housing where in my experience most of the friction occurred.
It was relatively easy to apply as well, I just used an old hair dryer for a few minutes after application.

Also In ripster tests it outperformed every other dry lubricant.

It is important to note that the RO-59 KT variant was made for Keytronic keyboards by special request.

The RO also has the same static fricton coefficent as the Krytox 100, but without any problem with the evaporation, or dust accumulation.

So RO-59 KT all the way?

So far the only guy in this topic and the previous one which has tried both, advices 103 over RO-59, citing RO-59 problems such as shelf life and limited durability and effect compared to 103. Also he has an impressive lube collection. It's nice that Keytronic used RO-59, but that on itself doesn't say much. Maybe they used it because it's cheap. Costar coats keycaps, but the coat only lasts a little while. It sort of make the product initially better than it really is over its lifetime. I'd like to try RO-59 sometime, and the Krytox grease too, but I voted 103 because I want to try that first.

DeathAdder wrote:So RO-59 KT all the way?

Seemed to me ripster could wipe it off pretty easily using foam swab.

Forgive my ignorance but I thought you were supposed to leave RO-59 to dry or something?
Are people saying it just wipes off even after letting it sit?

Edit: Nice collection, Limmy

Frankly limmy was raving about the RO-59 over at geekhack when he tried it on his HHKB.
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=27474.60

He said he got identical results with the Krytox 100 which just outperfomed the 105, but he just ended up mixing the RO with the Krytox 100 just for the sake of lulz.

I told him that the 100 evaporates, however at that time he was very defensive about it.

The RO is much more durable than other dry ptfe lubricants, and there is no data that would suggest otherwise.
Actually it adheres to the surface quite strongly when you apply some heat.
I don't see durability as an issue, but eventually all lubricants have to be recurred.

All in all, I'm sure both Krytox oils & grease are awesome as well. Eventually I want to try them on the contact leaf.

Is there an all-around lube for sliders and springs?

RiGS wrote:Frankly limmy was raving about the RO-59 over at geekhack when he tried it on his HHKB.
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=27474.60

He said he got identical results with the Krytox 100 which just outperfomed the 105, but he just ended up mixing the RO with the Krytox 100 just for the sake of lulz.

I told him that the 100 evaporates, however at that time he was very defensive about it.

The RO is much more durable than other dry ptfe lubricants, and there is no data that would suggest otherwise.
Actually it adheres to the surface quite strongly when you apply some heat.
I don't see durability as an issue, but eventually all lubricants have to be recurred.

All in all, I'm sure both Krytox oils & grease are awesome as well. Eventually I want to try them on the contact leaf.

I am not a Krytox salesman and I don't need to be defensive. Yes, I was concerned about the evaporation after reading data sheet(describes evaporation loss at high temperature) and I conducted some experiment at normal temperature to see what happened. 30% weight loss happened after two months for the most volatile oil, which is GPL100. For this reason less volatile oil was recommended, hence GPL103.

At the time of that raving(?? lol) post, RO-59 was intended to be used for surface energy increasing agent(I now think Krytox Grease is better for this purpose) and I did NOT do comparison between RO-59 and Krytox oils. And most importantly that was not the instance where I prefer Krytox oil over RO-59. I tried it on separate set of Cherry Reds and did my homework comparing two types of lube.

I was just trying to share my experience. It seems like I became proponent of my choices and it has become very tiring task explaining everything. I don't really care what you guys purchase. Just purchase whatever you feel like it. They aren't bad choices.

DeathAdder wrote:Is there an all-around lube for sliders and springs?

Not a good idea. (my two cents)

IIRC you tried the Krytox on the metal contact leaf of your cherry reds as well. Please correct me if I am wrong you also made the impression that you preferred to lube that spot rather between than the sides of the slider and the switch housing.

I can see why you prefer Krytox grease there. However I felt the most change in feel when I applied the RO on the plastic parts of the switch.

Btw did you remove the original grease prior applying it?

The way I see it, lubing switches is just as subjective as switch preference, each to his own.

Thank you for your input and your valuable research on this matter.

Limmy wrote:Not a good idea. (my two cents)

So, what kind of lube are we buying? For sliders or for springs? Or both?

Sliders. For the springs, you can use engine oil, which seems to be common for KBD modders.

RiGS wrote:IIRC you tried the Krytox on the metal contact leaf of your cherry reds as well. Please correct me if I am wrong you also made the impression that you preferred to lube that spot rather between than the sides of the slider and the switch housing.

I can see why you prefer Krytox grease there. However I felt the most change in feel when I applied the RO on the plastic parts of the switch.

Btw did you remove the original grease prior applying it?

The way I see it, lubing switches is just as subjective as switch preference, each to his own.

Thank you for your input and your valuable research on this matter.

Cherry Corp's engineering decision must have been based on the thought that lubing the metal leaf is crucial and lubing slider is not. I agree with the decision. The metal leaf is PUSHED against the plastic slider so the friction must be greater than that from the sliders. My statement above is mostly descriptive and does not involve my preferences. I have been saying the exact same for multiple times and I wonder why you thought I prefer lubing the metal leaf to lubing sliders while I was saying lubing the metal leaf must be more important than lubing sliders.

I have tried lubing the metal leaf using what I have, BUT I have not done full comparison. One thing I know is adding Krytox on the leaf of tactile switches(brown and clear) reduced the tactility. Factory lubed clears felt like climbing steep rocky mountain while Krytox lubed clear felt like walking on a smooth light hill. Based on this result, I would GUESS lubing leaf of linear switch will have its effect but the magnitude is going to be smaller due to the shape of the sliders.

Buy them and try them yourself. Take some risk and do research. My description of the effect is full of subjective judgement and only way to know exactly how it would work with your project is to DO IT YOURSELF. Krytox grease and oil are not hard to get from ebay. You can find GPL205, GPL100, GPL105 at decent prices on ebay. Not cheap, but not that expensive either.

I do not generally comment on things I didn't do or experiment. Any comment without actual encounter is close to meaningless in my opinion. It is like comments on how blues would feel like from a user who used only brown switch. There is no doubt a comment from an actual user would be much more helpful. However, even that is not enough because description almost always has to go through the interpretation by the observer. Therefore, I encourage you try them.

We can't leave this going on forever. By tomorrow Evening, say 8pm BST. Whatever has most votes is what we will go ahead with. That means I can start looking at where to get things from and get the ball rolling.

I am up for any of them once you have decided. I don't have anything to say in the matter.

I already have RO-59 coming so I would much prefer to get my hands on some 103. Hint hint to any late voters

So if we are looking for a lube for the sliders, which are the best of those 3?

That hasn't been conclusively determined yet.

It has been conclusively determined that different people like different lubes best.

We're even! Anybody want to change the vote?

So it stays at 10:1:9 for 2 days and then RO59 gets 2 votes in the last few hours? Really?

We could do a public poll with checkboxes instead of radiobuttons. Then everybody who participates, commits to buying whatever he voted for, and we order whatever gets the most votes. And votes by accounts less then 4 days old wouldn't count, although they could still participate in the groupbuy afterwards.

edit:
I'd participate in the groupbuy either way, but 2 genuine votes just before the deadline seems like quite a coincidence.

Poll options changed. Including the main 2 or both. 24hr run, get your vote in!!!

That changed votes for ro-59 to both, and now it's a mess.

New poll?

Or can you reset the votes?

Why not start a Group Buy interest check, ask people to state if they want Krytox 103 or RO-59 or both, and determine how much orders you need (and price) to make one or both reality?