002 wrote:There are always two distinct opinions on this.
1. The seller is bad for making a huge profit on some lucky score he made
2. The seller can do what he likes and sell for whatever amount he pleases

Personally I am from camp 2. In my opinion, the source of the problem is not the seller trying to make a big profit, but the buyers who pay the ridiculous amounts. I have paid a lot of money for various items in the past too, but I have also landed some great deals (like a brand new $103 Realforce). What the seller does with their property, regardless of how they obtained it should not even be mentioned. I would not ask a complete stranger at a garage sale how much they originally paid for their old vacuum cleaner because I don't give a shit. I look at the price tag and I decide myself if it's worth it or not. Just my opinions

Amen.

002 wrote:I would not ask a complete stranger at a garage sale how much they originally paid for their old vacuum cleaner because I don't give a shit. I look at the price tag and I decide myself if it's worth it or not.

OT:
Couldn't have said it better myself. I really 'love' it when I'm browsing the classifieds and people quote what they paid for their stuff when it was new. Who cares?!

Supply/demand curve assuming perfect info, rational behavior, and NO GAMER KEYBOARD Gold USB latency improving connections explains all.

Like the $430 Filco.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Filco-Majes ... 1160wt_922

002 wrote:There are always two distinct opinions on this.
1. The seller is bad for making a huge profit on some lucky score he made
2. The seller can do what he likes and sell for whatever amount he pleases

Personally I am from camp 2. In my opinion, the source of the problem is not the seller trying to make a big profit, but the buyers who pay the ridiculous amounts. I have paid a lot of money for various items in the past too, but I have also landed some great deals (like a brand new $103 Realforce). What the seller does with their property, regardless of how they obtained it should not even be mentioned. I would not ask a complete stranger at a garage sale how much they originally paid for their old vacuum cleaner because I don't give a shit. I look at the price tag and I decide myself if it's worth it or not. Just my opinions

Garage sales exist solely for money to be exchanged for stuff. I don't think that is equivalent to a forum for enthusiasts where people for the most part are happy to help each other out.

There are plenty of other channels where he could have made a profit, but bringing them here without any sort of disclosure seems a tad exploitative.

Tycn I hate to point this out but when I was going to buy your SSK I knew how much you paid and I offered you the same amount but you declined. How is that any different dude?

Edit: Which I completely respected you doing, mind you.

Mostly because I was after a trade at that point, which you weren't willing to accommodate. I would have offered it at the value of what I had originally paid otherwise.

That isn't the full story. We're kind of drifting off topic here and for the sake of others I won't comment on it any further because I like you and I don't think we need to be enemies.

It isn't. But the fact remains that I was open to some exchange in which the other party gets the same deal as I did - a mitigating factor perhaps?

You're certainly right in that I have little authority to make these kinds of statements though. There are plenty of individuals on this forum who help others at the expense of their own time and effort but I'm obviously not one of them.

Making the best out of 2 forums: the thinkpad forum to buy cheap and deskthority to sell expensive.
That's not the way to make friends on either forum.

http://deskthority.net/off-topic-f10/i-m-tired-of-the-damn-speculation-that-ruins-everything-t2563.html?hilit=profit

I'd like to recall that the originally asked price in the now edited OP was 130€ per set.

Half-Saint wrote:

002 wrote:I would not ask a complete stranger at a garage sale how much they originally paid for their old vacuum cleaner because I don't give a shit. I look at the price tag and I decide myself if it's worth it or not.

OT:
Couldn't have said it better myself. I really 'love' it when I'm browsing the classifieds and people quote what they paid for their stuff when it was new. Who cares?!

Yes, and how do you determine what something is worth? Sure there is the immediate value for you but demand and resale value surely must factor into it as well, right?

Sure, nobody cares with a vacuum cleaner at a garage sale, because it has only the immediate value for you. Mostly because the price is so low that reselling it is almost never worth the effort and also because people usually don't sell vacuums, they just use them until they break down.

I think it would be a different matter with e.g. a record player if you don't know yet whether you're going to like listening to records. You will then consider how much your loss is going to be if it turns out you want to resell.

You might also care what the original price was because it often tells you something about the quality of an item.

And you might care because it might tell you what it may cost you to acquire the item from somewhere else.


So these are some reasons to care about original price and why I usually give it when I'm trying to sell something.

The item for sale is not important. Using your example, if I was about to buy a record player at a garage sale, I surely would have done research beforehand to get some ideas on what is good and what isn't and what prices I should be expecting to pay. I'd never buy such an item on a whim.

The buyer and the seller should both be educated about what they're dealing with. If some idiot was selling his brand new Ferrari for $500 that is his own fault. My understanding is that these dye sub keycaps are rare and that people are willing to pay a lot of money for them. Sometimes you just gotta suck it up and pay or somebody else will.

Sure there are people who help the community and I recognise them and have more respect for them than the guy who is out to make a quick buck.

[Account and posts deleted on request]

cactux wrote:I do know why some people make a big deal of this.

Reading through this I don't think a big deal's been made. People are welcome to sell items at whatever price point they wish. But I do think it's healthy to call people out from time to time. It's a small community here and it would be sad to see everything driven by money.

Would have been nice to see the guy admit that maybe he was taking the piss a little and offer some to people who need them for a reasonable amount. Instead I think he's 'took his ball home'. Its a shame the wooden cases have now stopped, that was such a great thing he was going.

[Account and posts deleted on request]

I think the main issue people have is the idea of making profit from the community, this isn't ebay, this is a bunch of people all who enjoy the same things, and so people would like to think members would do their best to help each other out.
So while I doubt anyone is saying he should have sold them for no profit, maybe he should have passed on some of the savings.

dirge wrote:

cactux wrote:I do know why some people make a big deal of this.

Reading through this I don't think a big deal's been made. People are welcome to sell items at whatever price point they wish. But I do think it's healthy to call people out from time to time. It's a small community here and it would be sad to see everything driven by money.

Would have been nice to see the guy admit that maybe he was taking the piss a little and offer some to people who need them for a reasonable amount. Instead I think he's 'took his ball home'. Its a shame the wooden cases have now stopped, that was such a great thing he was going.

Ditto

Just for ack:
None of us really knows how much gothic paid for the keyboards at TP-forums, we all know there are sellers out there that won't sell even unusable antique stuff below the RRP. And in case you want one or two brandnew sets of Dyes you might jump the train regardless, calculating straight along the edge. one thing.

Second is, this discussion evolves in almost all enthusiast forums I am member of, and it's the same same opinions in every forum, same as stated here. Now I don't have a problem with people buying cheap and reselling for profit - in this case it might be bitter for the guy from TP-forums, but man forges his own destiny.
How do you calculate profit anyhow ? Buying a Cherry HAD board and reselling it with PBT caps for the same prices is clearly profit too.
Personally I think that forum trades are amongst friends, therefore all items should be sold at a "freundschaftspreis" as we call it in Germany, a special price for a friend. You shouldn't rip friends for their money. A little benefit from deals can be stimulating, demanding sellers to pass on all the savings of each special deal is likely to kill swapping between friends imo.
As long as it's still cheaper than on other markets it's okay with me, or in the words of the thread: you can bend me over, as long as you use lube....

now comes the part where I got slightly pissed with this offer:
Selling one dyesubbed board at ebay (extensively discussed thread linked by me before) at 101€, is a revenue of 90€.
Now offering an identical board at the forums for 130€ is a revenue of 130€, because of lack of fees.

That's dryfucking forum buddies for 40€. Of course only in case Gothic paid less than 90€ per board. One could have sold the board for 100€ - and still be better off than with ebay because no 10% fees apply.

kint wrote:Selling one dyesubbed board at ebay (extensively discussed thread linked by me before) at 101€, is a revenue of 90€.
Now offering an identical board at the forums for 130€ is a revenue of 130€, because of lack of fees.

That's dryfucking forum buddies for 40€. Of course only in case Gothic paid less than 90€ per board. One could have sold the board for 100€ - and still be better off than with ebay because no 10% fees apply.

This.

Half-Saint wrote:Profit is over someone else's back by default.

Not in my definition of "over someone's back", imho that applies only to anything where you are basically bending people over, pants down; 'at their expense', another ambiguous one, imho only applicable when it's not reasonable, exorbitant; all very open definitions still, matter of interpretation.
Mine still leans toward simple things like 'is it honestly reasonable that the person who created it takes only 40% of the profit while the person who happened to buy it and find a willing person takes 60%?'. See clickclacks for instance.

*edit: ho, shit, missed an entire page

dirge wrote:

cactux wrote:I do know why some people make a big deal of this.

Reading through this I don't think a big deal's been made. People are welcome to sell items at whatever price point they wish. But I do think it's healthy to call people out from time to time. It's a small community here and it would be sad to see everything driven by money.

Would have been nice to see the guy admit that maybe he was taking the piss a little and offer some to people who need them for a reasonable amount. Instead I think he's 'took his ball home'. Its a shame the wooden cases have now stopped, that was such a great thing he was going.

I agree with everything in this post.

It's a difficult one to call; there's a big different between selling cheaply obtained rare/in demand items (datahand, SSK, G80-5000, M-15) for what they are worth, and purposely buying mundane/generic items cheaply to sell to the community for a profit.

Geekhack is now quite commercialized. Hence the drive to "professionalize" the forum. Not much fun in a business oriented forum. Might as well be at work.

Me, I'll probably sell my vintage keyboard stuff on Ebay or ClickyKeyboards on consignment in 10 years to make the big bucks and give the rest <$50 stuff to local charities. Not worth the hassle since nothing messes up friendships/families/communities like money.

Jim66 wrote:It's a difficult one to call; there's a big different between selling cheaply obtained rare/in demand items (datahand, SSK, G80-5000, M-15) for what they are worth, and purposely buying mundane/generic cheaply to sell to the community for a profit.

It is absolutely a difficult one; look at the world, speaks volumes.
Honestly, personally, I'd prefer if people would not sell datahands/5000's at the prices they tend to go for, because that might be their worth calculated in 'relative maximum people appear to be willing to put down for them', it's not their worth when looking at the item in question as a tool; I would love to see everyone ('cause that's what it would take sadly) refuse to pay those prices and refuse to accept receiving those sums for them, which ofcourse has as effect that the e-bay type 'bidding' is no longer a proper working method of sale. May seem like a surreal dream, but ey, think big.

cactux wrote:Lets say that this guy found 5 M15s and he paid 50 USD for them. He spend several days looking for those boards. Do we have the right to ask him to sell them for 10 USD each? I do not think so. Each individual has the right to set there own prices in/out the community. The way to say I am not agree with the price is simple, Do not buy

That is quite a contrast you're sketching there; either 'profit how much you want' or 'volunteer work'.
Ofcourse the guy that put in the effort to even find them should be allowed some compensation, but IMHO not in the form of making 3000$ in two days just because you got a lucky find.

I don't care much.
Communities take care of ppl who abuse them, by themselves. And he won't be buying anything cheap there anymore.
And the dude who sold them probably felt pretty good about the deal (at first)

On a similar note, if someone sets a price for something that can be had much cheaper elsewhere, is it "threadcrapping" to point this out to an unassuming forumer who may be interested?

Well, yes when you get it WRONG!
http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?3224 ... SE-PS2-USB

Idiots. That IS the rare one.

hamza_tm wrote:On a similar note, if someone sets a price for something that can be had much cheaper elsewhere, is it "threadcrapping" to point this out to an unassuming forumer who may be interested?

Yes. Although imho that would be Justified Threadcrapping. With a vengeance.

Geekhack moderators are incompetent, sadly.

Always have been.