sixty wrote:

7bit wrote:MXDARKBLUE.......3

What are these and where are they from?

Blainchen told me that he can get the MX dark blues as well as all the other switches.

I've hoped you know what these are.

7bit wrote:

sixty wrote:

7bit wrote:MXDARKBLUE.......3

What are these and where are they from?

Blainchen told me that he can get the MX dark blues as well as all the other keys.

I've hoped you know what these are.

Well, there are 3 different types I have seen. There is a common variant from a variant of used dye/plastic used, which is identical to the normal MX blues. You even find these in G80s and Filcos. Then there is an ancient 20 year old switch that is actually an extremely different blue, like a navy color.



These came from some Terminal board in the 80s, I have never seen this switch anywhere else again. The switches lack a click, and are like MX clears. It is unknown whether this is on purpose or due to age and dirt.

I would be interested to know which ones are being sourced here.

sixty wrote:I would be interested to know which ones are being sourced here.

No darkblues.

I blame the other guests being so loud during our keyboard meeting!

just a question.
I'm a real newbie in the soldering and all that pcb stuff, but can i order a 7bit style ISO pcb and then put some "normal" space bar, ctrl, alt, altgr and win keys ? i just have to ask for the layout to the soldering guy ? (half saint do you see me winking ?).

How many swtiches does a 7bitpcbISO keyboard needs ? 95 ?
I love my actual mix of red for alpha, space and control/alt/altgr and blues for return and fun/num.

Is the plate mandatory ?


Thanks, and sorry for my must-be-stupid questions...

I don't think you can use modern keycaps with the 7bit plate because there are no space for stabilisers. You'd need the iso win thing.

The plate is necessary because there are no holes for the extra pins which are on pcb mounted switches. (You can, but they could break off easily)

Minskleip wrote:I don't think you can use modern keycaps with the 7bit plate because there are no space for stabilisers. You'd need the iso win thing.

The plate is necessary because there are no holes for the extra pins which are on pcb mounted switches. (You can, but they could break off easily)

Do you mean that the switches could break easily ?
I have read a message telling that you could change the switches without desoldering, and that was my main concern.

Thanks for your help.

Minskleip wrote:I don't think you can use modern keycaps with the 7bit plate because there are no space for stabilisers. You'd need the iso win thing.

The plate is necessary because there are no holes for the extra pins which are on pcb mounted switches. (You can, but they could break off easily)

I think the plate for ISO and ANSI can be made such that all keys above the cursor key get cutouts.

I'm not so sure about a split up of right Shift, becuase of the stabilisers for the 2.75 units shift.

On the other hand, as far as I remember, you are not the only one. Maybe we can make a mount plate in 7BIT layout, but with 7 units space bar.

The costs per plate do not sink significantly when more than 2 (the minimum order) are produced.

5 different plates, or 6 does not make too much of a difference.

Gilgam wrote:Do you mean that the switches could break easily ?
I have read a message telling that you could change the switches without desoldering, and that was my main concern.

Thanks for your help.

There is no way to place a stabiliser into the middle of a cut-out for a switch. PCB mounted stabilisers would be an option, but there were some reasons why this was no option (space, costs, I don't know).

Gilgam wrote:

Minskleip wrote:I don't think you can use modern keycaps with the 7bit plate because there are no space for stabilisers. You'd need the iso win thing.

The plate is necessary because there are no holes for the extra pins which are on pcb mounted switches. (You can, but they could break off easily)

Do you mean that the switches could break easily ?
I have read a message telling that you could change the switches without desoldering, and that was my main concern.

Thanks for your help.

If you use plate mountable switches directly on the PCB without a plate, then there are no stabiliser pins for stopping you from rotating the switch. Thus the 'power pins' on the switch will break if you rotate with enough force.

I think that the plate will have small cutouts so you can access the tabs on the switches and remove the tops without desoldering.

7bit wrote:PCB mounted stabilisers would be an option, but there were some reasons why this was no option (space, costs, I don't know).

It is relatively easy to drill the holes and file away some more from the mounting plate to be able to fit PCB-mounted stabilizers.
The other way around: adapting a switch hole to fit a plate-mounted stabilizer by adding material to the hole to make it smaller, I think is not as easy.
To be able to add PCB-mounted stabilizers to the bottom row, the horizontal trace above the switches needs also to be moved upwards a bit in the design.

There are custom Korean keyboards that use a mounting plate with PCB-mounted stabilizers, and which has holes for the extra mounting pins of PCB-mounted switches also.

There is a 1000 hole price cutoff from the manufacturer. More than 1000 holes are 2$ more per board. Not a big cost really. I'm at 958 holes at the moment... I think it would be possible to add the PCB-mount-switch-mount-holes to most switch locations.
Adding PCB-mount-stabilizer-holes for all sorts of key combinations is impossible, they will overlap. It might be possible to add 1mm holes to most locations where they are supposed to be, as guides if you want to drill them yourself.

I think you should stick to the original plan of plate mounted stabilizers. Losing the "universality" of the PCB seems to be a bad tradeoff just to get plate mounted stabilizers.

The universality of the plate would not be compromised. But the additional features (PCB mount holes for switches and stabilizers) would not all be ready to use "out-of-the-box". People wanting these would probably be the ones able to finalize those features since they would have to be building their own case anyhow. But no, I don't know if the demand is high enough to justify the additions.

Fixed the first post so pictures are now local on Deskthority.

And an update, BiNiaRiS is going to make 2 prototype mounting plates as soon as he receive seed money from the 3 of us. Once the plate is made and checked, we will be ordering 2 PCBs so I can build a prototype Phantom to confirm everything is working before we order all the parts.

7bit, do you want to start a dedicated Cherry switch group buy so we can combine all the switch orders to get to MOQ?

Hmm, my dream layout would be the ISOWIN layout with the extra button right of the right shift and all the buttons between the arrows and the function keys, like on 7bits layout.
That would be the perfekt layout for me, because I would code a virtual numpad to these keys with the extra key beside shift as modifier! (pressed with the thumb)
It would be absolutely great to get that! I would buy two or three of these!
And when ISO is available at WASDkeyboards.com I could create a perfect labeled set of keys for it. Am I right, that the caps for the full size numpad from the WASD should fit to these positions above the arrow keys?

EDIT: Hmm, how long is the shortened right shift in 7bit's layout? I fear that a row 4 cap in this size is not available in the standard keycap sets...

Tarkoon wrote:...
EDIT: Hmm, how long is the shortened right shift in 7bit's layout? I fear that a row 4 cap in this size is not available in the standard keycap sets...

WASD keyboards?

You better make sure to get some real key caps from Round 4!

I'm not sure about the key next to 7bits shift. The shift is 1.75 units and the other is 1 unit.

Maybe this could be added to all layouts.

The 5 extra keys in the cursor area should be no problem!

I will get caps from round 4, but I would also like to have some caps with the virtual numpad labeled in the lower right corner...
But most important would be, that PCB and plate allow the layout i would like to have!

I just looked at the round 4 wiki and all sets but the TKL one contain a 1,75 row 4 shift key.

Ok, so even without testing I now remember why we ditched the PCB mounted stabilizers. The PCB is simply too small, the lower row of holes for the different spacebars fall outside it.. So that's pretty much a non-option.

Tarkoon wrote:Hmm, my dream layout would be the ISOWIN layout with the extra button right of the right shift and all the buttons between the arrows and the function keys, like on 7bits layout.
[...]
EDIT: Hmm, how long is the shortened right shift in 7bit's layout? I fear that a row 4 cap in this size is not available in the standard keycap sets...

I read your post sloppily and thought you said you wanted to split the ANSI left shift into a 1x key plus a 1.25x key. That was creative I thought, and I like creative Ideas. So I did that, but now I see that wasn't at all what you were asking for.. That only means it was really my own creative idea, and I like that even better =D

The ANSI and ISO right shift are both 2.75x so with the HHKB layout they are 1.75x plus 1x.

So will there be a plate like the one I described? (ISO + HHKB style right shift + full set of keys above the arrows)
As I saw a few posts before mine, there are others who would like that too.

And concerning your creative idea with the split up left shift --> ISO has this as standard! ^^

Tarkoon wrote:[...]
And concerning your creative idea with the split up left shift --> ISO has this as standard! ^^

Ah yes, but no. I added the reverse split =) A 1X key to the left of an 1.25X key instead of the way ISO is.

What do you think about this 7bit?

Oh, I'll be wanting some switches as well.

PrinsValium wrote:

Tarkoon wrote:[...]
And concerning your creative idea with the split up left shift --> ISO has this as standard! ^^

Ah yes, but no. I added the reverse split =) A 1X key to the left of an 1.25X key instead of the way ISO is.

Wait!

Do you mean:

1 1.25 Z X C V B N M < > ? 1.75 1

Minskleip wrote:What do you think about this 7bit?

Oh, I'll be wanting some switches as well.

take clears and blacks or what about reds instead of the blacks to swap the spings to get ergo-clears and blackish reds?

Yes that is what I said =) This thing is already holier than the Vatican during a meteor shower. I don't think a few more holes will compromise the structural integrity (any more..).

PrinsValium wrote:Yes that is what I said =) This thing is already holier than the Vatican during a meteor shower. I don't think a few more holes will compromise the structural integrity (any more..).

You have to reinforce the structural integrity field and depolarize the deflector.

7bit wrote: take clears and blacks or what about reds instead of the blacks to swap the spings to get ergo-clears and blackish reds?

Not a bad idea...

Minskleip wrote:

7bit wrote: take clears and blacks or what about reds instead of the blacks to swap the spings to get ergo-clears and blackish reds?

Not a bad idea...

Blackish red are red stem on black spring, so black feeling with a red color. The stems are VERY slighty different but not enough to have a different feeling.
What about brown and clears so you'll get ergo clears and stiff browns (muddy switches ? dark brown ? J Brown's switches ? ) -never tried these by the way...-

By the way i ordered a phantom isowin (let's stay classical for the moment) a plate, teensy, diodes (are they really necessary ? ) switches , soldering help.
The Stab700 is good for a plate mounted keyboard with a 7 cm long space bar ?
I hope i didn't make any mistake.

PrinsValium wrote:Yes that is what I said =) This thing is already holier than the Vatican during a meteor shower. I don't think a few more holes will compromise the structural integrity (any more..).

Excellent! Would it be possible to order a pair of plates like this?
- ANSI return
- "reverse" left shift split, and right shift split
- 7bit-like modifier row with 4u space bar

That one is nice too
but 1,5 modifiers
left shift from ISO and right shift from ansi
and the space 4 units

not so easy to find keycaps

Gilgam wrote:not so easy to find keycaps

Round 4

Minskleip wrote:Round 4

Yep. With ‘short shifts’ everything except the SPH 2u Return fits perfectly. But my stubby fingers can't handle ISO layouts.

Is not that much smaller is it?