webwit wrote:...

ACK!
Except for the fact that they are located in Luxemburg, the only country in the EU where they can act like this. By German standards (and also by other countiries standards) they are not even a bank. But in Luxemburg everything is possible, and because they are in the EU they are automatically a bank in all EU countries.

hoggy wrote:This is a real eye opener. I know some people didn't like paypal... Well now I know...

I wish you the best in your fight with these ... I don't know ... flying monkeys perhaps...

It is the same shit/pattern as with the novelty key group buy on GH.

The point is: Nobody complained that they did not get their stuff after payment. But PayPal just locks the accounts.
They stick their nose into things which are not their business.

.

I think eBay has a bank license for some European countries, but it doesn't matter. Whether they are a bank or not, they cannot seize your money and say "provide proof of this and that." A judge can do that, they cannot.

I had a conflict once with paypal over the donations account of an open source project and did what I proposed. Got the money back in two days. I probably made people cry. I hope so. The point is to make it so hard for them it isn't worth it for them.

Besides this bitchy paypal: I still need your data for bank transfer.

Dammit sixty... I feel for you, that customs thing with the pokers where bad enough. But you learned something from it. What paypal did is not something you can use as an experience, they just freeze accounts that recieve large ammounts of cash and accuse the recipient without checking with those who sent the damn money in the first place... And I bet they freeze more accounts now when closing in on the first quarter, so they have more money in the bank.

This is acually common amongst big companies, to freeze assets to blow up their revenue before a quarter.

If you do decide to make yet another groupbuy, I'm ok with not using paypal. Then we can skip a fee and an ineffective company.

Stupid PayPal. Do not worry sixty!

They have accepted the first bunch of documents. No replies yet at all to my other inquiry. Followed webwits advice and sent one again, a bit more aggressive.

I think webwit advice is the only one which would work.

When I had a problem I sent a civilized response at first as well. Then you're just snubbed. "Yeah we'll investigate, or not, and get back to you in 6 months. Now fuck off." Then no more replies. This is when I took the gloves off.

Hi Sixty, just wanted to thank you for organizing the group-buy, and all my sympathy for your troubles. Just followed up on Pravas example and wrote a letter of complaint to PayPal. Probably won't help much, but at least it's a little sand in their machinery. Have to sympathize with Webwits clear and simple sentiments on them : )

How many keyboards are in the order? (just wondering how much money is needed before they consider something dodgy and start freezing accounts)

This was something around 3600 Euros. The account currently is frozen with 2900 Euros as I had transferred shipping costs to my bank account in advance.

They won't publish their 'tripwires' for this sort of thing. It's probably something like x payments in, that's y times as many as the average per week.

Most scammers will change accounts frequently, so the age of the account is important. Other factors might be the number of accounts at that address/phone number.

I'm assuming that accounts are evaluated against their rules on a regular basis, with possible infractions earning you points - get enough points and get slammed.

wow really sucky...
hope this gets cleared soon

Could this probably also affect the Red Alert Buy?

byFd wrote:wow really sucky...
hope this gets cleared soon

Could this probably also affect the Red Alert Buy?

Nah, Payments for the Red Alert set are all already in Korea since over a month. I am just waiting for Uranium to get back to me. As regarding the spare sets, by the time they arrive the PayPal issue will hopefully be sorted out. Otherwise I will be looking to accept other payment methods.

hoggy wrote:They won't publish their 'tripwires' for this sort of thing. It's probably something like x payments in, that's y times as many as the average per week.

Most scammers will change accounts frequently, so the age of the account is important. Other factors might be the number of accounts at that address/phone number.

I'm assuming that accounts are evaluated against their rules on a regular basis, with possible infractions earning you points - get enough points and get slammed.

There are no tripwires, mate. They only freeze accounts not because they do care about costumers...but because those actions give them plenty of time to invest such money and make a ton off of it. Think about it: you freeze a ton of money that you have 6 months to move it up and down...and, once everything settled, you just pay the initial quantity.

Its the same the insurance companies do: the difference is that the former ones do it legally whereas paypal doesn't.

One funny thing is the following:
- get your paypal account blocked (without any bank informations or card information ) for the following reason: insufficient funds.
- open complaint for every single item you purchrased in the last 60 days
- wait

You'll see that paypal will refund you every single one of them, in order not to loose your money.

Hope this gets sorted soon so that the Vortex PBT caps buy can get going also :<

sixty wrote:This was something around 3600 Euros. The account currently is frozen with 2900 Euros as I had transferred shipping costs to my bank account in advance.

BINGO

That was the alert PayPal got, when you transfer more then 500USD this brings up a alert to PayPal, that would explain why they were even monitoring your account to begin with

sixty wrote:
Nah, Payments for the Red Alert set are all already in Korea since over a month. I am just waiting for Uranium to get back to me. As regarding the spare sets, by the time they arrive the PayPal issue will hopefully be sorted out. Otherwise I will be looking to accept other payment methods.

I will mail a cheque if i have to

Its times like this i'm reminded of bitcoin and that wish it would be used by the internet commuity more.

Thion wrote:Its times like this i'm reminded of bitcoin and that wish it would be used by the internet commuity more.

Bitcoin is a piece of shit, and people who use it are pretty much stupid. Why should I trust some currency that has nobody at its side is beyond me...

Well they have some problems, which is unfortunate, because besides Paypal it was an interesting alternative.
Having nobody at its side is kinda the point of BC, because this way, nobody could interfere with the transfer the way PP does now.

Hope this gets resolved soon.

Ebay are fucking thieves. They especially love to steal from non-profit organizations. Most of the time it seems they invented Paypal just for scamming.
I was lucky enough to be able to chose the bank transfer option, but this makes me so mad, angry, furious. They are criminals, nothing else.

Not much news today, they accepted some documents and some are still pending. I also am in contact with VorTex and asking them to send me a document such as their company registration form.

In worse news, PayPal also banned my second (non business, personal) account, which I have not used in over a year as it is "connected to criminal or problematic accounts". Fucking hell, more funds locked for no reason.

Writing another mail right now and will keep you all updated as always.

PayPal eh, sticking their mitts into legit transactions again, sigh. I stand by you Sixty, if you need any help from us then just ask, i feel a strongly worded letter coming on. grr.

this is a case for http://www.heise.de/thema/Vorsicht-Kunde

Like for the Poker, i'm late.
Any chance to get Vortex in red keyswitch ?

choot wrote:Like for the Poker, i'm late.
Any chance to get Vortex in red keyswitch ?

Not form this group buy, especially not in the current situation

ok, thx for the quick answer.

Any updates yet?