where did your comment come from?

You are officially the "Princess of Spam".

and there he is spouting nonsense again..

runeazn wrote:it wont, cuz who wants to use a touch screen with no response dearer than a mech keyb

and also if you wanna sit relaxed in a chair you dont want to hold or lay the touchscreen to type it.

tl;dr keyboards are more ergonomic.

The difference between "killing" and "making it irrelevant" is just semantics:

• Not everyone cares about tactility, see the number of cheap rubber domes in the world.
• Tell me, do you type while sitting relaxed in your chair? I guess it would be far more trouble to take a laptop and a Cherry keyboard (or heaven forbid, your favourite model F AT), then go write your next best-selling novel while sitting in your grandfather's best chair. The fact you can type on your screen means you can have a device with a decent screen estate while still having the ability to type.
• tl;dr all Keyboards suck but they're the best we have now.
  Or rather, the best affordable thing we have now. Datahand or TouchStream peripherals are better ergonomical input devices than a plain-old keyboard, but they will cost you.

If someone finally integrates FingerWork's technology with decent haptic feedback for a flat panel and software impact-sensitivity, keyboards are done for.

Think about a Nintendo DS-like laptop which has a mousepad the size of the bottom screen, can take less force than a Cherry brown to type on and can switch keyboard layouts on the fly. It might even be lighter because it might not need as much material as scissor switches.
While the former is for laptops, hunt-and-peck typists might still find it interesting to have a touchscreen input device which can switch layouts. Others might like that it also works as a mouse.


Better stock up on touch-screen wipes.

You mean like the Acer Iconia?

http://www.engadget.com/photos/acer-iconia-windows-7-dual-screen-tablet-and-clear-fi-media-sharing/#3601888



The keyboard is done for...

I don't see a mouse there either and you can use a capacitive stylus on touch screens. Actually, Wacom just announced one the other week.


Sent from my iPad

Way too much focus on the touch screens of today in that article, they are still too inefficient as pointed out by some guys.

Given enough technological improvements, "input screens" will likely kill the keyboard, unless neural interfaces would win first.

Oh yeah, the Cool Leaf. The most retarded thing since toasters in a bath.

With this Japanese innovation you can't:

Change the layout to another language - other layouts sold separately

Customize the layout in any way despite the device being a touch screen

Get any kind of tactile feedback

Type very fast

Instead, you can check your smug face on the lovely mirror finish every now and then and listen to annoying beeping sounds as you type 20 WPM.

Smug face is smug.

Julle wrote:Instead, you can check your smug face on the lovely mirror finish every now and then and listen to annoying beeping sounds as you type 20 WPM.

I just took a typing test on my iPad and averaged 75 wpm with 98% accuracy.


My typing speed would actually have been higher, but the app I used to test disables autocorrect and forces you to type everything fully. Even though I have only had the iPad for a week or two, and haven't done a huge amount of typing on it, there are some words where I am actually used to letting autocorrect finish it (because I know it will) and that slowed me down a bit.

On the leaderboards for this app, the top score is 149.3 wpm with 99.7% accuracy. I can't type that well on a "real" keyboard.


The keyboard in that video looks really annoying to use though. Annoying sounds, and it's far too thick to type on - you need something as thin as an iPad to be effective, and there would be no autocorrect.

I think this is a producer vs. consumer issue. The consumer, who only needs to access information, can be greatly helped by both a touch screen and an interface that is simplified from the classic WIMP (Window, Icon, Menu, Pointer) system.

The producer, who relies on the keyboard for rapid character input, cannot be helped by the touchscreen, even in a simplified environment because of the need to input so many characters and combinations. The only thing that can threaten the keyboard for the producer is an interface that is more efficient. I think there is great potential in the brainwave monitoring systems, but they have a long way to go. I have a co-worker that owns one. It does work, but is excruciating to set up and use, and in the end, it is only a mouse pointer, and does not respond as quickly as even the most basic mouse.

Sterling wrote:I think this is a producer vs. consumer issue. The consumer, who only needs to access information, can be greatly helped by both a touch screen and an interface that is simplified from the classic WIMP (Window, Icon, Menu, Pointer) system.

The producer, who relies on the keyboard for rapid character input, cannot be helped by the touchscreen, even in a simplified environment because of the need to input so many characters and combinations. The only thing that can threaten the keyboard for the producer is an interface that is more efficient. I think there is great potential in the brainwave monitoring systems, but they have a long way to go. I have a co-worker that owns one. It does work, but is excruciating to set up and use, and in the end, it is only a mouse pointer, and does not respond as quickly as even the most basic mouse.

I mostly agree with you - the iPad is designed as a 'consumption' device, rather than being a 'creation' device.


I would never want to be doing coding on one for example. But I think it does allow for creation far more than naysayers want you to believe.

Is the on-screen keyboard slower than a physical one? (particularly mechanical) Absolutely.
Is it a slow 20 wpm text entry device that is essentially worthless? Absolutely not.

I've only had the device a week or two, and I'm typing 75 wpm on it. I'm sure it's not as fast as many of you here are with a physical keyboard, but it's not like you are going to be totally unproductive at that speed - it's still faster than a lot of people are with a real keyboard.

Just the other day, I typed up an 1100 word article on my iPad because it was a nice day and I was relaxing in the sun rather than being stuck in front of a PC or dealing with a laptop. (the iPad has actually replaced my laptop now)

There are some really gorgeous text editors for the device as well: http://www.informationarchitects.jp/en/writer-for-ipad/ (in that particular case, plaintext was sufficient)


Regarding tablets/touch as an input device, it's certainly taking on: http://www.photoshop.com/products/mobile/

Realistically, I don't see tablets/touch replacing the keyboard or desktop PC, but I can definitely see a big shift towards them.
In all honestly, most people probably don't need a desktop PC with a physical keyboard & mouse.

I have gone from buying high-end notebooks, which were expensive and slow compared to their desktop counterparts, and big and heavy compared to tablets, to having an iPad and a desktop PC.

This gives me a truly mobile device for my portable needs, and a much faster system for doing demanding tasks on at a fraction of the cost.


And ironically, using the iPad has actually sparked creative interests of mine in some areas, such as music with the fairly wide range of apps, and low barrier to entry. Sure, the apps are not as fully-featured as their desktop compantions, but it was $16 for the iMS-20 app vs $450 for something like Reason on a PC, and it's a much more mobile platform (even compared to something running on a laptop) which lets me experiment with things more often. Not bad for a consumption device.


It's easy to look at touchscreens/tablets and say "well that will never catch on" but just look at the shift from mechanical to rubber dome keyboards, and now the prevalence of laptop-style keyboards for the desktop. The mass market usually wants something different from what power-users do.

NewGuy wrote:Realistically, I don't see tablets/touch replacing the keyboard or desktop PC, but I can definitely see a big shift towards them.
In all honestly, most people probably don't need a desktop PC with a physical keyboard & mouse.

I completely agree with this. it is just part of the shift in how some people use technology.

Clearly, you are able to type at a very effective pace on a touchscreen, so it is not a hindrance to you. I welcome touch screens and anyone who would like to use them, but just as people encourage others on these forums to try different switches, I would encourage anyone thinking of a touchscreen for a primary input device, to consider alternatives before deciding what is best for them. It is, after all, ultimately about choice.

That said, I'm currently shopping for a tablet because I don't need a lot of power on the go, but I would also like the option of plugging in a small keyboard when I need it.

Sterling wrote:Clearly, you are able to type at a very effective pace on a touchscreen, so it is not a hindrance to you. I welcome touch screens and anyone who would like to use them, but just as people encourage others on these forums to try different switches, I would encourage anyone thinking of a touchscreen for a primary input device, to consider alternatives before deciding what is best for them. It is, after all, ultimately about choice.

That said, I'm currently shopping for a tablet because I don't need a lot of power on the go, but I would also like the option of plugging in a small keyboard when I need it.

I wouldn't want a touchscreen keyboard as my primary input device, but, I'm also not finding myself desperate to go out and buy a physical keyboard for this iPad, as I thought I might. I should also point out that this is my first touchscreen device—I don't have experience with them on cell phones etc.

There are some decent options if you do want to use a keyboard with it though:
http://52tiger.net/use-an-ipad-2-with-an-adb-keyboard/
http://www.logitech.com/en-us/keyboards/keyboard/devices/keyboard-case
http://www.apple.com/keyboard/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ag80wTh4nK8

Along with support for (most?) Bluetooth keyboards and USB keyboards via the camera connection kit.

While I do have a tendency to lean towards Apple products, I did avoid the original iPad. (too slow for me)
If you're buying a tablet today, it seems like a mistake to buy anything else though, in my opinion.

I suspect the geometry of the human hand will keep keyboard form factors around for a while. No matter how efficiently you can type with your thumbs you can still reach more buttons with your entire hand. Any software you run to add context-based button reconfigurations can be applied as easily to keyboard-affixed displays as to a touchscreen. I think keyboards are essentially optimized physical interface devices - we'll undoubtedly see (are already seeing) attempts to improve the keyboard with alternate layouts, displays, haptic feedback, ergonomic styling; whatever mix of technologies and approaches works (and is marketed) best will emerge as the new de facto standard just as ye olde 104-key PC keyboard did before.

I haven't seen steering wheels and pedals being made obsolete as somebody claimed earlier in this thread. Sure, we can build those controls into a little game controller with a coupla joysticks and some buttons, and some people can argue convincingly that these are by far the best interface for driving games ... but if this was the case, if other form factors existed which were so overwhelmingly superior, then why exactly do we still see steering wheels in every vehicle on the road? It's because it works well, it's proven, it's even intuitive to a child and it's ergonomic. If you want to force the standard to evolve to something else that works well you have to either make it intuitive to a child (which Apple might actually be doing) or you have to alter the ergonomic (by implanting cybernetics or whatever). Since children generally don't have enough money (or interest) in buying keyboards and since I doubt we'll all be implanting neural I/O ports anytime soon I think it's safe to say physical keyboards will be around for a considerable time.

Pretty computer generated colours moving across display screens has been impressing (and selling products to) consumers since the ancient days of 6502-vs-Z80, it's what sells millions of iPhones and other gidgets today. Integrating a colourful display into your device might add to manufacturing cost but that's easily passed onto consumers these days, as the best of the new approaches are weeded down to the ones which actually increase convenience and efficiency we'll see them implemented into existing keyboard technologies. The more they make the better and cheaper they get.

All the interesting innovation is in typing on touchscreens, from haptic feedback to this. This one is getting close to my Datahand touchscreen idea earlier.



My guess though is that any one of them only has a chance when a big player (e.g. Apple) adapts one as a standard. Probably only Apple can do it at this time. All those small players will end where all the ergonomic keyboard players ended. Apple is probably lazily sitting back and watching the game unfold, to pick the best ideas and their favorites.

If they're gonna go with the "one-handed keyboard layout which can be used for special input applications" then I'm voting for the left hand.

1) Left-handed QWERTY use allows the typing of useful cool programming words ranging from reset to stewardesses. How this affects DVORAK and COLEMAK and all the rest I cannot guess.

2) It is time for the sinisters to rise up against our oppressors! It started with scissors, now through technology we shall liquefy keyboards as well, mwoohahaha.

Windows 8 has Split Inverted Symmetric Stagger layout on their virtual keyboard:

SISS layout.

But why the inverse stagger???

Doesn't look quite as cool as a matrix, and the stagger has to be that way when it's split.

But then again the split is possibly so small that having it pointing inwards is just wrong..

http://www.acer.co.uk/ac/en/GB/content/iconia

It has begun.

Ojda, that's not cool. *hopes for flop*

this will rule in combination with a poker or other compact keyboard

Apple should simply re-issue the Fingerworks Touchstream keyboard. It's quite amazing, you can type, mouse, and even rest your hands on it safely. Why did they kill it? They really should have spawned an ultra-ergo uncompromising line of products, separate from their mainstream looks-comes-first keyboards/mice.

That's not very commercial. They bought it for their patents and technology.

Yes but they are not using the technology fully. The iGesture, Touchstream of Fingerworks were much more advanced than apple's current offerings in input devices, including touchscreens.

Typing this message on a Touchstream LP, on linux. No drivers/software needed. I am especially blown away by the cursor control (arrow keys) by dragging, it even works in text terminals, shells, and vi editor.