Matias Quiet Pro Keyboard with sound-dampened ALPS switches

User avatar
Matias

20 Sep 2012, 23:35

Just want to let everyone know that we released our new Quiet Pro Keyboard today. Link and press release are below.

http://matias.ca/quietpro

It uses dampened ALPS switches that we developed ourselves. It's tactile, yet quiet.

Feel free to post questions here.

Thanks,

Edgar



Image

Matias releases World's Quietest Mechanical Keyboard


TORONTO, September 20, 2012 — For users who crave the feel and speed of mechanical keyboards, but are put off by the noise, Matias has the solution...


Today, they released the Quiet Pro Keyboard, an ultra-quiet version of their award-winning Tactile Pro.


"Users love the Tactile Pro, but it's too loud for some work environments. Other mechanical keyboards have the same problem — too loud to use in a shared office, too loud to use near other people. Now, we finally have a solution. A mechanical keyboard that's tactile, feels amazing, and is no louder than a regular keyboard," said Edgar Matias, CEO of Matias.


With ultra-thin, flat keyboards now the norm, many users find them uncomfortable and awkward to type on. This has led to a resurgence in the popularity of higher-quality mechanical keyboards, which were commonplace in the early days of the computer industry. The only drawback is that they've always been louder to operate — until now.


"We've been working on this for over 2 years. We had to develop a whole new keyswitch to do it. It was an enormous undertaking. We weren't even sure if it was possible — but we managed to pull it off. It feels just as good as the Tactile Pro, but it's quiet," said Matias.


Matias also plans to sell its new switches to other companies, who wish to produce their own quiet mechanical keyboards. More details will be released soon.


"After doing all this work to develop these amazing new switches, we didn't feel it was fair that they only got used in our products. So, we're planning to start selling them as stand-alone components. Other keyboard companies can buy the switches, and incorporate them into their products. We even plan to sell them in smaller quantities (on our website) for hobbyists who want to build their own custom keyboards," said Matias.


Price & Availability

The Quiet Pro is $149.95 (US) with separate PC and Mac specific versions. The US models are available now from http://www.matias.ca and authorized resellers.

http://matias.ca/quietpro


UK, German, and Nordic (Sweden, Finland, Norway) models will be released in January and are available for pre-order from The Keyboard Company.

http://matias.ca/keyboardco


In Japan, the Quiet Pro for Mac will be available from Diatec (Filco).

http://www.diatec.co.jp

User avatar
phetto
Elite

20 Sep 2012, 23:41

Aaaaaawesoome! And soon with Swedish layout too!!! Can't wait. Good job matias;]

User avatar
Matias

20 Sep 2012, 23:50

Thanks phetto.

It's been a long road, but we've happy with the result -- and very happy to be working with The Keyboard Company to service Europe.

User avatar
002
Topre Enthusiast

21 Sep 2012, 01:03

Nice one, Matias :)

I wonder if you might be able to answer some questions for me..
- Will it still be possible to buy these switches? I'm sure I saw it mentioned on a geekhack thread a while back that the switches would be available for purchase seperately ($100 for 800 switches?).
- These are often referred to as 'ALPS' switches, but hasu pointed out last night on IRC that ALPS don't make switches any more so I'm guessing these are some sort of authorised clone?

Findecanor

21 Sep 2012, 01:36

Awesomeness!

BTW, the Wiki has been updated. Please shout if you find a fact that is incorrect.

User avatar
fossala
Elite +1

21 Sep 2012, 08:34

You are claiming the quietest mechanical switch, what about silenced topre switches?

User avatar
002
Topre Enthusiast

21 Sep 2012, 08:45

Topre is probably not considered mechanical by them I'm guessing.

User avatar
fossala
Elite +1

21 Sep 2012, 08:53

Marketing, always bending the rules (lying).

EDIT, what about Commandor64 keyswitches. They are very quite?

I guess before making this claim matias, you measured all the "known" switches? If so can we have the data to back up your findings? Or is it just marketing (lying)?

Findecanor

21 Sep 2012, 10:15

As far as I know, there are no Topre switches or Commodore 64's key switches (Mitsumi?) that are silenced on the up-stroke like the Cream Alps CM that Matias has cloned.

Besides, I don't think that Matias compares with keyboard switches that have been out of production for more than a decade, and I don't think that they compare with modified switches (O-rings, etc.)

JBert

21 Sep 2012, 10:36

fossala wrote:Marketing, always bending the rules (lying).
It's not lying, it's just being very selective of the facts one is quoting.

I guess this marketing speech needs some "*" markers pointing to a footnote with the relevant information.

User avatar
fossala
Elite +1

21 Sep 2012, 10:49

Topre are silenced on the upstroke and they are very quite on the downstroke.

It is lying, they are saying it IS the quietest, when I doubt it is.

User avatar
Icarium

21 Sep 2012, 11:25

Yes, this is absolutely the place to discuss marketing speech and exaggerations therein. :roll:

User avatar
fossala
Elite +1

21 Sep 2012, 11:26

I'm not talking about "marketing speach" or "exaggeration" I'm talking about the company lying to get sales.

Swede

21 Sep 2012, 12:11

fossala wrote:I'm not talking about "marketing speach" or "exaggeration" I'm talking about the company lying to get sales.
That's marketing speech, not good one, but still marketing speech.
Remember Razor when they launched the black widow?

They claimed to have developed a new switch, when infact it was a standard Blue switch.
Sure for the mainstream gaming community it was, since they never had heard of mechs before.

User avatar
phetto
Elite

21 Sep 2012, 12:25

Not to get off topic but, who will make GB for alps caps? 8-)

User avatar
fossala
Elite +1

21 Sep 2012, 12:29

So lets get this right "marketing speach" = out right lying? Do we find that as consumers fine or should we argue against it?
In this field we know a lot about what is being said and we can call on there lies. But in others areas we are blind.

Also matias, we have consumer laws in Europe about false claims, I think it would be worth your while to have a look over them.
http://www.oft.gov.uk/

User avatar
kps

21 Sep 2012, 15:50

fossala wrote:You are claiming the quietest mechanical switch, what about silenced topre switches?
Topre switches are capacitive switches using a rubber dome for tactile feel. "Mechanical" isn't just a synonym for "expensive".

User avatar
fossala
Elite +1

21 Sep 2012, 15:55

They are mechanical! Just because the mechanical switch isn't the same as the cherry or alps, doesn't mean it isn't. And I have already said that I would be supprissed if it was as quite/more quite than other keyboards out there that are less known.

User avatar
Icarium

21 Sep 2012, 17:21

"Mechanical switch" is not a well defined term. The most common "definitions" I can find are "not a rubber dome" and "has some sort of spring". The first would imho exclude Topre while the second would not (even though the spring in the Topres doesn't seem to contribute to the switch feel according to MrInterface's tests).

I do however think that this definition is totally beside the point. We can probably all agree that what matters is the resulting switch feel not how it is achieved.

About the loudness:
This was posted over on GH http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JML_jqJ8rwk
in this thread: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=32769.0
and it seems to be quite loud but there is no comparison. I'm sure there will be other videos soon.

itlnstln

21 Sep 2012, 17:52

To me, the competition would be between Cherry, ALPS (compatibles) and BS; the switches still in production. Topres I don't really consider to be mechanical in the same sense (perhaps in a more general sense, sure, but not in the same way the others are). In the end, I agree with Icarium that the term is not well defined and that a lawsuit over the claim may fall through if not go to court at all.

I still want to try one, though. I'm not the biggest fan of ALPS, but I really want to see what Matias has created.

User avatar
kps

21 Sep 2012, 18:14

What makes a Topre switch more ‘mechanical’ than a membrane switch?

User avatar
fossala
Elite +1

21 Sep 2012, 18:26

It's not membrane it's capacitative. I view Model M's less mechanical than topre.

User avatar
Matias

21 Sep 2012, 19:07

I know there is some controversy over whether Topre switches are mechanical. I don't consider them to be mechanical, since there is no mechanical contact made when the switch is activated. They're triggered by capacitance, much like the touch screen on an iPhone or iPad.

Also, most of the force curve comes from the rubber dome. The force curve on a mechanical switch is dictated by metal parts -- a spring, a click leaf, etc.

Having said all that, I don't think it in any way implies that Topre switches are any less impressive. It's very fancy electronics for implementing a switch, but it's not mechanical.

User avatar
bhtooefr

21 Sep 2012, 19:21

It also depends on your definition of "mechanical", which is actually a quite vague term.

We'll start with Merriam-Webster's definition of mechanical:
    1. (1) : of or relating to machinery or tools <mechanical applications of science> <a mechanical genius> <mechanical aptitude> (2) : produced or operated by a machine or tool <mechanical power> <a mechanical refrigerator> <a mechanical saw>
    2. : of or relating to manual operations
  1. : of or relating to artisans or machinists <the mechanical trades>
    1. : done as if by machine : seemingly uninfluenced by the mind or emotions : automatic
    2. : of or relating to technicalities or petty matters
    1. : relating to, governed by, or in accordance with the principles of mechanics <mechanical energy>
    2. : relating to the quantitative relations of force and matter <mechanical pressure of wind on a tower>
  2. : caused by, resulting from, or relating to a process that involves a purely physical as opposed to a chemical or biological change or process <mechanical erosion of rock>
For the purposes of this discussion, I'd argue that #4 and #5 are what apply to a "mechanical keyboard".

A Cherry or Alps switch, that's clearly mechanical. Forces on the switch cause events to occur in the switch, including the vertical force on the slider being translated to a horizontal force pushing a contact together (or allowing a spring force to push the contact together).

But, how is that different from an ordinary rubber dome? Forces on the switch cause the dome to collapse (in the physical domain), pushing down on a membrane of mylar sheets of metalized contact points, causing two points to make contact. Or, for a Model M, forces on a spring cause it to buckle sideways, causing a plastic hammer to push down on the membrane.

As a less extreme, but more interesting example, let's look at the beam spring, it's just the beam spring is amazingly mechanical). Forces pushing down on the slider compress a spring, while also pushing down on a flexed flat spring, which causes another flat spring to spread and eventually "pop" up, lifting the flyplate off of the PCB. And, capacitive switching is still in the physical domain, although at a less obvious scale than conductive switching - capacitive switching's effects are at the subatomic scale, whereas conductive switching's effects (while ACTUALLY at the subatomic scale) are visible at a much, much larger scale.

Laser keyboards may count as non-mechanical, but light is still in the physical domain, meaning, technically, it is mechanical.

That said, most people talking about a "mechanical" keyboard mean one that uses a switching mechanism optimized for precision and keyfeel, and more complex than a sheet of rubber domes... but then you've got Topre, which isn't more complex than a sheet of rubber domes, because it IS a rubber dome. A sprung rubber dome, but there's plenty of those that don't get a "mechanical" designation.

I'm starting to switch towards using "premium" or "high-end" instead of "mechanical", due to the different interpretations of mechanical, and keyboards that would qualify as optimized for typing feel rather than low cost. Not an ideal adjective (it could be used to apply to the G15 and G19, which are very much not optimized for typing feel), but more meaningful than "mechanical" IMO.

User avatar
Matias

21 Sep 2012, 19:36

Also, regarding the so-called quiet test video, it's of such low quality, it's not reflective of what the keyboard actually sounds like. I'm sure others will post more videos soon. I'll try to get one posted asap.

We've been swamped with press requests, so I have a mountain of emails to go through. Will try to post again soon. Thanks again to everyone who expressed interest.

User avatar
fossala
Elite +1

21 Sep 2012, 19:50

Do you actually believe it is the quietest mechanical switch though? As it has been said there are vintage switches that could be quieter. And just are you just going to say "doesn't count" to each switch that is quieter?

User avatar
fossala
Elite +1

21 Sep 2012, 19:53

Matias wrote:I know there is some controversy over whether Topre switches are mechanical. I don't consider them to be mechanical, since there is no mechanical contact made when the switch is activated. They're triggered by capacitance, much like the touch screen on an iPhone or iPad.

Also, most of the force curve comes from the rubber dome. The force curve on a mechanical switch is dictated by metal parts -- a spring, a click leaf, etc.

Having said all that, I don't think it in any way implies that Topre switches are any less impressive. It's very fancy electronics for implementing a switch, but it's not mechanical.
You are just making up what "mechanical" means to suite your lies, sorry I mean marketing.

User avatar
fossala
Elite +1

21 Sep 2012, 20:07

Triple post combo!

I want to also add I'm happy that someone is making a non-cherry keyboard. Hopefully it will bring in some innovation to the area of "mechanical" keyboards. I just don't like your marketing department.

User avatar
Matias

21 Sep 2012, 20:09

fossala, why the inflamatory language?

Just google Topre switch and you'll find no shortage of people saying it's a hybrid, not mechancial. What I said is not controversial at all.

In fact, if you check Topre's own website, they don't say anywhere that it's mechanical. They call it an "electrostatic capacitive non-contact switch". They even compare it to a regular rubber dome...

http://www.topre.co.jp/e/products/comp/key_point.html
Last edited by Matias on 21 Sep 2012, 20:11, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
bhtooefr

21 Sep 2012, 20:11

And I think I just argued that a rubber dome is a mechanical switch.

Really, we do need a better term.

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