I'm tired of the damn speculation that ruins everything

29 Apr 2012, 23:23

for my taste we are mixing to many different cases into one pot.
for me there are basicly two different cases.

one are for example cc and the red alert raffle
both are very limited and could have been sold at a lot more profit but weren't, so let's call them good will sales

the other are group buys which are open to anyone who cares and have no limitation or exclusivity at all.
lets call them group buys.

if I buy a good will product I have to carry the generosity part over to my sale and don't sell for profit, ( to be able to look into the mirror)
if I buy a group buy product I'm free to do with it what I want.

I ordered over 150 black keyboardrunner keys for two reasons.
one was that I wanted them to reach the 1$ mark so sales would take off
the other one was that I knew I can sell them for a small profit afterwards

(we are talking about the amount of a steak dinner not a car please keep that in mind when judging, in general)

30 Apr 2012, 00:20

Well, the clackfactory key prices I simply don't understand at all. For me, it's a stretch to justify spending even the amount that CC asks for them - it's not that they aren't worth the money, but let's face it, they are already expensive for a keycap! So, what I don't understand is the people paying the crazy prices, but since they are, it's no surprise that people will sell theirs.

At the end of it all, the market sets the prices. The seller shouldn't be blamed for getting a market price for whatever they want to sell. It doesn't matter what they paid. Presumably, if they're making a profit, the market price was different when they bought. What can you do? Turn back time? Resurrect a group buy? Restock EK with CC?

The way I see it, if someone does me a favour and sells me something at less than market rate, then I owe them a favour, not the person I might happen to sell that item to. (Of course, I might still do the buyer a favour, but I wouldn't feel duty bound to do so).

The above doesn't address habitual profiteering. That, I would frown upon, as it deliberately seeks to take advantage of the community. But... a) I don't think there is much of it, and b) I don't think they end up making as much profit as they hope they will.

PS. I hate auctions in forums, but they appear to me to be a response to all the threadcrapping that comes when someone asks a high price for something - as in, a price where there's some room for haggling. It's ugly to see the threadcrapping, I hate that even more than auctions.

30 Apr 2012, 02:18

Well, for what it's worth, some GH members don't like people taking advantage of the group buys by buying for less and sell it for more either. Take a read through this thread and you'll see just that.

http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?3073 ... e-feedback

I'm with OP on this and I'm sure more than a few others at GH feel similarly.

30 Apr 2012, 07:24

reaper wrote:Well, for what it's worth, some GH members don't like people taking advantage of the group buys by buying for less and sell it for more either. Take a read through this thread and you'll see just that.

http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?3073 ... e-feedback

This is pretty roch:

nokcha wrote:This thread is more for my ranting. If you'd really like to settle an argument please do it over private messages.

Translation: “I tried to take advantage, it blew up in my face, but I’m the only one allowed to complain”.

30 Apr 2012, 07:55

Hehe, we tried. Ian123 did something similar, but all our crap were removed from the thread.

30 Apr 2012, 13:20

If I were a group-buy organiser I'd make sure that once I got all the keycaps but BEFORE I sent them, I'd put mines to sell at a very high markup so I'd cash in before all the rats that made no effort would do it.

At least I'd profit from my very own work...

30 Apr 2012, 15:23

Welcome to Capitalism. If you don't like it, go to China! Dirty commies.

30 Apr 2012, 15:46

t!ng wrote:[...] But the most important thing I have learnt is: community > money. [...]

http://www.ebay.de/itm/290641817991
http://deskthority.net/marketplace-f11/vintage-cherry-dye-sublimation-key-caps-t1756.html

30 Apr 2012, 15:52

Brian8bit wrote:Welcome to Capitalism. If you don't like it, go to China! Dirty commies.

LOL! You live at least 20 years behind.

His choices are:
Cuba
North half of Korea
.
.
.
?

I'd take Cuba, at least they have cool cars there.

30 Apr 2012, 16:08

7bit wrote:
Brian8bit wrote:I'd take Cuba, at least they have cool cars there.

Don't forget the cigars and rum.

30 Apr 2012, 16:33

prava wrote:Hi, fellows.

As the title implies, I'm kinda sick of watching people make no effort for the community and then taking some nice profits. One of the most common movements happen with Click Clack keys: the producer sells them for a price he believes its fair and then people just go and buy all of them from him with the only expectation that they will be able to sell them later on for a profit. That sort of nonsense bullshit attitude hurt EVERYBODY in the community, as somebody that has done nothing nor created any value shouldn't be allowed to take any profit whatsoever (and forums like this should prevent such things from happening).

I gave my Silver one away to ItlnStln in protest of this money hungry capitalism I see at GH, DT and OCN.

Here I am at the Beijing Embassy.

My other contribution to the community is 100% technically correct keyboard info.

30 Apr 2012, 17:02

While I don't like it, I guess it is what it is. That's why fine art sells for ridiculous prices. What I hate is when somebody buys an excess of a limited set, especially when it prevents others from getting it at the original price, only to turn around and sell for a profit. That sucks.

30 Apr 2012, 17:13

kbdfr wrote:
t!ng wrote:[...] But the most important thing I have learnt is: community > money. [...]

http://www.ebay.de/itm/290641817991
http://deskthority.net/marketplace-f11/vintage-cherry-dye-sublimation-key-caps-t1756.html

As I said I learnt it. Nobody is perfect.

30 Apr 2012, 19:47

Brian8bit wrote:Welcome to Capitalism. If you don't like it, go to China! Dirty commies.

You clearly have no idea what capitalism stands for, right?

:roll:

30 Apr 2012, 20:10

prava wrote:
Brian8bit wrote:Welcome to Capitalism. If you don't like it, go to China! Dirty commies.

You clearly have no idea what capitalism stands for, right?

You clearly don't get sarcasm.

30 Apr 2012, 20:26

Brian8bit wrote:You clearly don't get sarcasm.

We are the Internet. There is no sarcasm here!

30 Apr 2012, 20:58

: supply_demand_11.jpg (38.55 KiB) Viewed 697 times

01 May 2012, 13:14

I'll bite... sigh.
Supply&demand is quite reasonable, but.
When there's artificial inflation of either (i.e. GAMING THE SYSTEM (there ya go, free yell)) it moves to antisocial fuckwit territory.

Supply/demand is a theory of reality upon which theories have been built that are used in reality to play with both variables, and those theories ruin the correctness of the s&d theory* as a wanted/correct/necessary rule of market.

*Not search and destroy, that's another market gimmick altogether.

My 'ideal' alternative proposition; sell for reasonable prices no matter what demand there is. If there is little, don't dump; if there is lots, don't inflate. This keeps everything within reach of everyone, instead of the one or two that 'need to collect at any price' or just want to make a buck. Banking nor investing are legitimate fields of work imnsvho.
Ofcourse this alternative only works when everybody abides by those principles; if the guy you've sold your stuff to at a reasonable (not marketreasonable) price resells that at a huge margin, you'll feel pissed and like you've missed out; which you have, though should.

Yes I'm an idealist/dreamer.

01 May 2012, 16:01

If it makes you feel any better AAPL is below 600 right now.

01 May 2012, 16:03

ripster wrote:If it makes you feel any better AAPL is below 600 right now.

Apple's stock being low always makes me happy.

01 May 2012, 16:23

off wrote:I'll bite... sigh.
Supply&demand is quite reasonable, but.
When there's artificial inflation of either (i.e. GAMING THE SYSTEM (there ya go, free yell)) it moves to antisocial fuckwit territory.

Supply/demand is a theory of reality upon which theories have been built that are used in reality to play with both variables, and those theories ruin the correctness of the s&d theory* as a wanted/correct/necessary rule of market.

*Not search and destroy, that's another market gimmick altogether.

My 'ideal' alternative proposition; sell for reasonable prices no matter what demand there is. If there is little, don't dump; if there is lots, don't inflate. This keeps everything within reach of everyone, instead of the one or two that 'need to collect at any price' or just want to make a buck. Banking nor investing are legitimate fields of work imnsvho.
Ofcourse this alternative only works when everybody abides by those principles; if the guy you've sold your stuff to at a reasonable (not marketreasonable) price resells that at a huge margin, you'll feel pissed and like you've missed out; which you have, though should.

Yes I'm an idealist/dreamer.

I believe everything is a more simple than that. As soon as you banned all the middle man who never buy anything except for selling later on, we would have REAL prices...as people would buy what they wanted, not what they felt they could sell later on for profit.

You see, do you want a CC key? You'd pay what another person felt the key was worth for him...not what some dumbass thinks the key could go for in a recent future.

I love forums that absolutely ban the middle mans...because everybody trades at more reasonable prices, and you know that when somebody asks for a discount such person won't use it to make an extra buck on somebody else...because there is no worse thing that selling to somebody you think you needed it for a nice price only to see he is reselling it like crazy for a ton more...

01 May 2012, 16:53

Banning the middle men; and how would you? Everybody can buy stuff, keep it a few months, then sell it saying they didn't really like it after all; only way to really judge the thin seperating line is probably by judging who the person has been on the forum and how much profit he/she is perceived as making. Which gets back into tricky territory; judging one another.

So yeah, as icarium said, would be nice if people spoke out often on what they think a certain item is worth, without fully burning the seller ofcourse, so at least that person will have the breathing room to justify such price without having to go all 'offense is the best defense' which really isn't all that great for fora like this (believe me, wrongly tried that

)

01 May 2012, 20:41

I think we should ban all Chinese Goods until that Blind Dude gets his family back.

02 May 2012, 10:30

ripster wrote:Blind Dude gets his family back.

..?

Anyhow, when I woke up I realised I completely whizzed past the original inherent 'danger' of capitalism, that moment when some third party jumps in offering what you are at half the price.
Especially in a category like this, that is ooold keyboards, there's bound to be moments when someone finds a stack rotting away in some warehouse.
And then it gets tricky.. even when both want to do the honourable thing by making very little in the way of profit, and even try to make sure those items get to those who will cherish&use them; the first guy will probably have a much higher price even when using the same margin (in coins not percentages), and thus will probably end up being stuck with his small stock untill the other sells out at that lower price.

I guess I'd just say cash(price) and value/worth are not synonyms in any way.

02 May 2012, 14:57

This thread sums up the difference between USA Capitalism and EU Socialism nicely.

During our MayDay 2012 we threw Lattes, not Molotov Cocktails.

02 May 2012, 20:42

03 May 2012, 09:55

[Account and posts deleted on request]

03 May 2012, 11:19

ripster wrote:This thread sums up the difference between USA Capitalism and EU Socialism nicely.

During our MayDay 2012 we threw Lattes, not Molotov Cocktails.

And we threw beer.
And what eu socialism do you speak of?
It's just capitalism here.

cactux wrote:Normally the potential buyers are dictating the prices of any item (just like ebay does) . Offert vs demand that simple.
If you do not like the rules, nor the product do not buy it, is your call (Capitalism).

And what if you like the product but not the rules?
Also it's very capitalist to buy a product you don't like, then resell it with markup. Sadly.

cactux wrote:Am I going to change the offert/ demand model NO I CAN NOT.

Change you can not believe in, way to go.
Thought the slogan was decent though the guy (and the machine behind him) ain't.

Lastly, 'offer vs demand that simple'; no it isn't. That's what this thread is tipping on.

03 May 2012, 11:25

cactux wrote:Normally the potential buyers are dictating the prices of any item (just like ebay does) . Offert vs demand that simple.
If you do not like the rules, nor the product do not buy it, is your call (Capitalism).

Regarding the cc caps, several people are not very happy because they can not find them or afford them. I have several rare keyboard and keycaps and I paid a high price (That was my choice) in order to own them. Am I going to change the offert/ demand model NO I CAN NOT.

Of course you do change it, at least its parameters. As you say yourself, "Normally the potential buyers are dictating the prices of any item", and that's exactly what you do when paying a high price for your CC caps, in two ways:
1. you acknowledge "your" price is really being paid for that item, so anyone badly wanting one will be ready to pay such a sum, and
2. you withdraw one of those hard-to-get items from the market, again raising their scarcity and thus their price.

There's nothing to object to that, of course, it's just the way it works (and it has, by the way, nothing to do with capitalism, which is a matter of ownership of means of production).
The problem lies with the people not interested in the goods, but only in the possible profit. They don't mind paying high prices because they want prospective buyers to know that they will have to pay a hig price or else not be able to buy, and they want the goods to be (at least felt as) scarce because again it guarantees a high price.

It's OK with such (in my opinion) ridiculous things like CC caps, it is not with e.g. wheat.

03 May 2012, 12:20

[Account and posts deleted on request]

I'm tired of the damn speculation that ruins everything

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