Paris

shreebles · 23 Nov 2015, 17:01

Muirium wrote: ↑Underlined headlines? Jesus H. Christ…

so annoying, internet people always want to click them

Muirium · 23 Nov 2015, 21:23

seebart wrote: ↑How about dropping 100k Sun copies over IS territory from an airplane? Can we madden them any more? But they might not "get it".

Everyone needs toilet paper I suppose. It's humanitarian aid!

elecplus · 23 Nov 2015, 21:30

The Belgian simply filled twitter with pics of cats, since they were requested not to talk about the raid online. http://www.theverge.com/2015/11/23/9781 ... s-lockdown Maybe there are some new ideas for dune cat here?

andrewjoy · 23 Nov 2015, 21:32

The Sun is written by the dregs of humanity, everyone involved with producing that thing should be ashamed of themselves. They lie to get a big headline to sell the paper to the unwashed jobless masses that are there readers. Never ever buy the Sun, and a bit of advice, if you do , don't carry it around Liverpool.

Sensationalist headlines after 96 people die when its an out and out lie is the lowest of the low.

Muirium · 01 Dec 2015, 19:35

It's not easy being Muslim, either.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... is-attacks

SL89 · 01 Dec 2015, 20:25

One of the most jarring things about how immigrants (esp folks from the MIddle East and that part of the world) are treated is how easily they are identified and written off. In America, in the past, immigrants did their damnedest to integrate or at least put on a veneer of integration. It was easy for Italians, Irish, Germans, Russians, and Jews to all blend into the same cloth post WWII, it was especially helpful that these were all European groups for the most part and looked / acted somewhat similar. Even the Latino and Asian immigrants found ways of blending in. Dressing like a 'normal American', speaking English primarily and generally taking part in the open culture did a lot to bring in these groups... which ended up giving back to the community.

But as time has gone in, people have kept more of their cultural identities in easy to spot ways. Learning english seems to be emphasized less as the government accommodates more languages officially, cultural garb is still pretty much unchanged from their original nation, and so on. So because they are easy to identify, it becomes a very easy way to take pot shots, and create this 'them or us' thing. Which strikes me as very odd, because these people clearly chose to be part of 'us.' For whatever reason they left their homes and have started over. I'm not sure how this applies to the rest of you in the European nations, but as a (not too distant) descendant of immigrants on both sides, it is deplorable how unwelcoming, hostile and ignorant people choose to be. It's getting to the point where I have to think of the way the Japanese were treated, (and to a lesser extant the Germans) during WWII. And i just hope we as humans can get past the point of rounding people up and putting them in 'camps.'

Muirium · 01 Dec 2015, 20:31

My ancestors have been in Britain as far back as anyone remembers. World War I and II were the first known journeys abroad for any of them! Back in Victorian times they were pretty poor and rural, and it's not unlikely they've been here for tens of centuries. So I'm as indigenous as they come. And let me say that racism, xenophobia and indeed islamophobia all piss me off immensely. Shame on everyone with prejudice!

The article I linked was written by someone who's obviously quite capable in English. My reading was that she was born and lived in London all her life. But wear the hijab and all bets are off. What a nightmarish age, where the fools among us choose to forget all the lessons of the last 100 viciously bloody years.

Redmaus · 01 Dec 2015, 20:39

I have no idea who to vote for now.

seebart · 01 Dec 2015, 20:45

You're right SL89, in this case with folks from the Middle East and that part of the world the factor religion makes it more "difficult" IMO. Most of those immigrants in the past you mentioned were part of some "western" religion. I can see this situation here in Germany also, large groups keeping to themselfs in daily life, many of the older do not learn the language and don't really need to since their daily life revolves around "closed" circles. But these people are not terrorists and almost all of their children integrate very well into society, many so well that their parents go ballistic when their daughter wants to go all out Kim Kardashian style.

fohat · 02 Dec 2015, 01:38

I have trouble understanding a person immigrating to another country without the intention of assimilating, and/or at least setting his children up to assimilate.

And, of course, the religion thing complicates everything, because it creates a "flash point" for disagreement and raises everyone's defenses. Particularly when "strange" clothes, habits, and customs are involved.

"When in Rome, do as the Romans do" has always seemed good advice to me. If I went to an Arab country and they told me that I had to wear a hat, I suppose that I would, but in fact I would probably choose to not to go there at all if I did not want to "play ball" by the accepted customs of the land.

sth · 02 Dec 2015, 11:06

fohat wrote: ↑I have trouble understanding a person immigrating to another country without the intention of assimilating, and/or at least setting his children up to assimilate.

And, of course, the religion thing complicates everything, because it creates a "flash point" for disagreement and raises everyone's defenses. Particularly when "strange" clothes, habits, and customs are involved.

"When in Rome, do as the Romans do" has always seemed good advice to me. If I went to an Arab country and they told me that I had to wear a hat, I suppose that I would, but in fact I would probably choose to not to go there at all if I did not want to "play ball" by the accepted customs of the land.

maybe this is a little glib but 'if i dont move i will be murdered by extremists or killed by a drone bomb in my home country' would be number one in my head, long before considering how i would assimilate into a culture that seems pretty hellbent on not giving a shit about me or my culture.

Muirium · 02 Dec 2015, 11:32

Bingo.

We used to be perfectly horrible to Jews, Irish, blacks and Asians too. Go on. Insert the racial slurs we all still know back into that list. Now it's these poor bastards turn. Only with the added layer of supposed vengeance. For crimes committed by the bastards who slaughtered their families back home! Justice…

Imagine if all Americans were treated with such contempt in the places they had to flee to once Trump gets in and most of their homeland descends into a Mad Max like apocalyptic hellhole without any chance of peaceful life. That wouldn't be fair, would it?

andrewjoy · 02 Dec 2015, 12:43

But the best way to handle the hate and crap on both sides is for people to live, work and learn together. Just as travel broadens the mind so does exposing yourself to new cultures. Keeping yourself closed off in your own little world is not healthy, people fear what the don't understand.

We have a duty to help anyone in need and if that means allowing refugees into the country and caring for them then i am 100% fine with that. But don't forget that the evil people who attacked paris and do other attacks are not stupid, they will try to take advantage of our good nature. This does not mean we should stop or keep out the filth immigrants as some people think but we do have to keep an eye out.

That being said , i don't see it as unreasonable for someone to be expected to learn the local language and adjust there behaviour to fit local customs/laws.

And don't get me started on all this bombing campaign thing they are going to vote on, it will just make things worse. Its books and educational material we should be dropping on them not bombs! And cameron is showing his true colours calling everyone who does not agree a terrorist sympathiser, that is a very nasty viewpoint to take.

Muirium · 02 Dec 2015, 13:02

Cameron is the Heir to Blair. He's always made that very clear. He's been in Number 10 so long it's about time he kicked off his own Iraq war. Next up: another terrorist attack like 7/7. Then Gordon Brown, sorry I mean George Osborne knifes him in the back and we get another unelected Head of Government. Because Britain: where precedent overrules everything else.

I agree with you about the melting pot too, Andy. But it all comes back to those who refuse to blend in. What's to be done about them? I wish they would too. Because that group is where extremism lives, as shown by the rogues gallery who bombed the tube, as well as the recent shit in France. But they're fiercely anti-Kardashian, anti-Clarkson and even anti-BBC for goodness sake! Our sacred culture is lost on them…

To be honest, I get where they're coming from. I don't watch the Beeb either, and I've no idea what the celebrity circus actually gets up to unless it spills over into the political pages. But I indulge my sense of righteous moral purity in the realm of keyboard choice instead!

andrewjoy · 02 Dec 2015, 13:13

Muirium wrote: ↑Then Gordon Brown, sorry I mean George Osborne knifes him in the back and we get another unelected Head of Government. Because Britain: where precedent overrules everything else.

Don't forget "It is necessary to get behind someone before you can stab them in the back". He will support him for now.

Muirium · 02 Dec 2015, 13:15

seebart · 22 Mar 2016, 14:54

Not sure if I should "re-activate" this thread after today's attacks in Brussels by posting this. My thoughts are with all the victims and their families. From what I understand these attacks were carried out by the same group as the Paris attacks. All this is sooo depressing.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35869254

Chyros · 22 Mar 2016, 15:07

A revolting attack by cowards and inhuman fiends spouting a message of hate. What alienated creature could possibly think that this is the right thing to do?

My thoughts go out to the victims and their families.

seebart · 22 Mar 2016, 15:13

I'm too upset to get into the discussion about the assassins right now, they are members of an IS cell from what I understand, same as the Paris attacks.

fohat · 22 Mar 2016, 15:30

The psychology of explicitly devoting (and often giving) your life to behaviors that will cause the majority of the human race to despise you and the group that you belong to transcends insanity, and is completely beyond my ability to comprehend on any level.

seebart · 22 Mar 2016, 15:33

The core of the brainwashing lies is warped religion in this case IMO. I have seen many Muslims that very clearly said that IS is not the way of the Islam in any way.

Redmaus · 22 Mar 2016, 15:43

Such a waste. Absolute savages these terrorists.

vivalarevolución · 22 Mar 2016, 16:15

Redmaus wrote: ↑Such a waste. Absolute savages these terrorists.

I was thinking about starting a Brussels thread, but this will do.

Be careful calling people savages, even those that kill in mass. By doing so, you strip them of their humanity and justify their extermination, which is the exact same thought processes that lead them to killing in mass. I am not saying that makes you a savage or on the same level of terrorists. But by stripping people of their humanity, it makes it very easy to throw them into a large group that can be treated as less than human.

There are influences that happen over a person's lifetime that drive them to cause acts of terrorism. Addressing those and preventing people from developing violent mindsets and behavior are the only long term solution to terrorism. Savages simply cannot be eliminated.

I recommend reading some interviews with mass murderers and terrorists, to understand how they think and what causes them to develop those viewpoints and behaviors. They are insightful and provide useful information for creating methods to prevent similar future destruction.

fohat · 22 Mar 2016, 16:20

vivalarevolución wrote: ↑
I recommend reading some interviews with mass murderers and terrorists, to understand how they think and what caused to them to develop those viewpoints. They are insightful and provide useful information for creating methods to prevent future activities.

And everyone should read this, if they haven't already:

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/arc ... ts/384980/

seebart · 22 Mar 2016, 17:06

Yes I had seen that before fohat, thanks for the link. Graeme Wood has done interesting work, here is a brief introduction: