deskthority

andrewjoy wrote: ↑"good friend" i hope that was sarcasm

Quite frankly its tough shit if he does not like it there is nothing he can do about it, i only wish local authorities had that kind of power.

Au contraire. He could just ignore it. The referendum isn't legally binding, as I understand. The absurd thing is that the only thing that can make us independent (short of an armed revolt…) is Westminster repealing the Act of Union. Nothing binds them, technically speaking. And if it's a narrow Yes, I really do expect trouble.

I'm not particularly anti-Cameron, as it happens, although I was indeed kidding. He made the mistake of letting us have this referendum. Maggie and Tony would have both said: Fuck off, love No. 10.

I don't know he just has one of them faces you want to punch very very hard , thatcher was even worse glad the b***h is dead.

As a labour voter i like Tony he will just always be remembered for starting that war even tho he was quite a good leader imo, brown was out of his depth he was a good chancellor and IMO would have done a better job than this lot with turning the economy around.

Cameron will not ignore it! If it is a Yes, he'll say it's brilliant, and they will evaluate it. In this evaluation, a definite proposal, as by the wish of the Scottish people, will be put in vote for the independence of Scotland. On which only politicians, who are elected by the people, may vote. Unfortunately they will vote No.

Nah, looks like we lost. First result in from a wee place in the middle of Scotland where the SNP tends to do well: 54% No. Hard to see where Yes can make it up from here.

Glad I didn't go out tonight. It'll be a wake.

So they didn't make it to MOQ?


Why didn't they use the rolling deadline trick to get more votes in?

Its a no, lets hope something positive still comes of this and there is more devolution of power for the whole of the UK, they are talking about it but i don't want to be lumped with the whole of England as that will change nothing.

I absolutely understand the desire to have the own identity. I could almost start vomiting on my passport everytime I see the disgusting flag on it... Other people believing you are something you ain't can be a real burden!

At least everything went peacefull and this vote may have positive consequences, unity is not that bad at all.

So you want Hamburg to be independent again?

Nah, has nothing to do with Hamburg or Germany, I have bosnian papers and as a serb you are not a fond of their flag.
It's like scotts in UK, they want their own identity and I can understand it verry well.

well NO independent Scottland for now it seems.This was a close one though, and an even bigger wakeupcall for London I hope.What everybody seems to forget right now,this process can be repeated in the future,a lot of the older voters might not be around then! Let´s see how London keeps it´s promises now.

So you want Hamburg to be independent again?

??? Not me, and I am a Hamburger! A german hamburger. No golden arches!

I have bosnian papers and as a serb you are not a fond of their flag.

I can imagine.

I am also a native Hamburger!

You really want eaten, don't you Cookie?

Was this vote rigging or just incompetence?
I wouldn't be surprised if there were some dirty tricks done to keep Scotland in the UK. There are powerful people with a lot of money at stake. There are the Scottish oil fields and military bases that England wants to keep.

Muirium wrote: ↑You really want eaten, don't you Cookie?

Who wouldn't like to have a Hamburger Cookie?

mr_a500 wrote: ↑Was this vote rigging or just incompetence?

I wouldn't be surprised if there were some dirty tricks done to keep Scotland in the UK. There are powerful people with a lot of money at stake. There are the Scottish oil fields and military bases that England wants to keep.

May that were just mistakes? This video is way out of context to make any judgements. But possible is everything!

As much as I'm disappointed by the result, I'm loathe to give conspiracy theories any weight. Cookie's quite right: the internet's the ideal medium for casting doubt on anything. (I have a friend who's sure that 9/11 was an inside job committed by the CIA and Mossad, because of murky stuff on YouTube. I believe he likely voted No, coincidentally…)

Something fishy did happen at the count in Dundee. Not one but two evacuations of the counting floor by a fire alarm! Plenty of scope for stealing away ballot papers there. But just as easily explained by some idiot pranking the place from the inside.

I don't like manual counts of ballots. I attended one in 2003 — as a rather ironic observer, as an old friend (not the guy above) had a spare guest pass from the Scottish Socialists, who I've still never voted for! — and the counting process is just as messy and error prone as you'd expect. The counters are watched continuously, by politicians from all sides, even in the days before ubiquitous video, and their work is checked. But there's always wiggle room in the margins. Wiggle room as in a few votes here or there. Like Florida in 2000. Not Scotland in 2014. I'm quite certain my side lost by 10%.

Speaking of which, here's Matt Gemmell (a local developer / writer who usually stays out of politics) describing exactly the thought process behind many No votes.

You can find all the relevant arguments both for and against independence elsewhere on the web, on TV, and in newspapers; I won’t attempt to rehash them. I’ll just say that I look upon patriotic fervour and romantic notions of the past with disdain. I think they’re disturbingly emotional, and that most important decisions shouldn’t be made emotionally.

I voted No.

And yet:

I don’t mind admitting that I feel like we’ve missed an opportunity.

There’s an old piece of political rhetoric that says there are votes based on fear, and there are votes based on hope. I succumbed to the former.

Fear won. I'm sure London learned, and will be all the more ruthless going forth. 45% voting to kiss them goodbye is beyond forgivable.

Dont forget the golden rule "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity"

True, but in politics (where there is everything to lose) you'll find exceptions:



The notorious "Butterfly Ballot" which helped cheat Florida in 2000. Designed by Republicans to confuse first-time and foreign language voters in a heavily Democratic county. Competence indeed!

Fortunately, ours was the clearest ballot paper I've ever voted on.

the fact that the vote was such a close call feed' s those conspiracy theories. There is always a percentage of error in a vote like this.Yeah that Florida vote was quite sketchy actually. Better yet electronic voting which opens up all kinds of manipulation on the software side.

People who design such forms should be shot immediately!

Meh... not shot them but a juicy slap would do the job!

make them fill out their own forms again and again, that's torture though :O

Here in Germany, we don't need tricky forms to manipulate elections, just enough forms to be filled in by one person.
( http://www.sueddeutsche.de/bayern/ermit ... -1.1928123 )
They registered seasonal workers from EU countries in the village and filled in their
ballots for them.

seebart wrote: ↑the fact that the vote was such a close call feed' s those conspiracy theories. There is always a percentage of error in a vote like this.Yeah that Florida vote was quite sketchy actually. Better yet electronic voting which opens up all kinds of manipulation on the software side.

Well, our vote yesterday was 55-45, so not really all that close. 400,000 votes was a clear margin of victory. I don't buy any claim there was cheating on that kind of scale.

Cue Webwit claiming all the threats from England and further abroad was a kind of cheating. That's politics!

Sigh.



Been the perfect atmosphere today for commiseration. I don't believe in the big fella, but the weather's quite poetic.

"I feel the press and the BBC have let us down because they didn't tell us the truth," said Sheena Jardine, 46 a violinist, echoing a familiar refrain from "Yes" campaigners.

Journalists had bombarded the voters with "propaganda" she went on, telling only one side of the story and "not showing all the amazing things that could have happened if we'd been independent."

Although this sounds like sour grapes, I'm sure, to the winning side; I can attest it is quite accurate. The "unanswered questions" agenda (that even popped up in this thread) completely drowned the "look at what we could do" vision, that ultimately lies behind the desire for our own country. No wonder there's a lot of sad faces about today. We all fucked up, big time. Scots are so loathe to believe in themselves.

Hang on mate! The time will come, some things need it and I think that such things shouldn't be rushed. I know words of comfort won't cheer you up now :/

Don't worry. I'm much less glum than many today. I followed the polls and always expected the odds were against. The real trouble is for the dreamers who really thought the mood was swinging to their side in the final week. For a moment, they had the future confused for today.

Although it's shitty to lose a test like this, here's the big picture. After 300 years of union, Scotland voted for the very first time on whether we wanted it or not. 45% wanted out. We were promised a whole treasure trove of stuff by London, desperately, right at the end of the campaign. Let's see if it comes. People have long memories here. Only one person in twenty needs to change their mind…

Anyway, the Scottish parliament will still gain more power and there can probably be a new vote for independence in a couple of years.

Muirium wrote: ↑I don't like manual counts of ballots.

Still better than easily-hacked electronic voting machines.

We were promised a whole treasure trove of stuff by London, desperately, right at the end of the campaign. Let's see if it comes.

Scotland's Leader: Voters 'Tricked' in Independence Referendum...LONDON — The debate over Scotland's future fizzled amid a bitter war of words Sunday, with Scottish leader Alex Salmond claiming his countrymen were "tricked" into rejecting independence in a referendum, and Britain's three main political parties bickering over how to take political reform forward.

Salmond, Scotland's outgoing independence leader, accused politicians in London of reneging on their promises to hand more power to Scots in a rare cross-party pact that he said played a crucial role in swinging the votes in favor of union in Thursday's vote.

http://mashable.com/2014/09/21/scotland ... eferendum/

politicians are capable of debating everything "to death",the accusations are out there, let´s see how much is eventually left in that treasure trove of stuff in the end.