Group Build prototyping phase

andrewjoy · 30 Jan 2015, 14:46

I want PBT trippleshot beamspring caps

DanielT · 30 Jan 2015, 19:39

I like the layered design, what material would be used for that one? I would lobe some a steel one

I have a teensy and a bag of platemounted switches just right for this

matt3o · 31 Jan 2015, 00:06

layered one is alu and steel. I'm still waiting for a quotation on the various designs. Gosh they are slow!

pyrelink · 31 Jan 2015, 06:46

Any reason you are going with a manufacturer for these? I thought the main idea was to wait on this group build until you got your CNC machine up and running, and we could do this for a much cheaper cost.

Also is there any time frame you expect for when we would start the ordering process for these?

matt3o · 31 Jan 2015, 08:55

my CNC is invaluable as a prototyping tool, but cannot be used for "mass" production. Too slow, too noisy in a residential environment. It would mean to keep it running 24/7.

I've found a couple of manufacturers that are actually pretty cheap, so cost wouldn't be that bad after all.

I'd say the GB could start within a couple of weeks.

copter · 31 Jan 2015, 09:02

Sounds promising. I definitely would be interested from ISO layout seen couple pages back (42).

DanielT · 31 Jan 2015, 09:05

Please tell me that this will be an Europe based GB

Alu and Steel sounds so good, I love the layered design very much.

matt3o · 31 Jan 2015, 09:13

yes, EU based of course

Madhias · 31 Jan 2015, 12:20

Oh great, this will be my first European custom keyboard! I am interested in bigger, non 60% layouts - wondering what will be available.

DanielT · 31 Jan 2015, 13:09

Oh, finaly, I have nightmares with the customs, they changed the regulations and now I pay even for free stuff if they are in the mood

And I have to cross town to get the package ....
So I will speak GH style: My body is ready for the layered one

Muirium · 31 Jan 2015, 13:44

DanielT wrote: ↑Oh, finaly, I have nightmares with the customs, they changed the regulations and now I pay even for free stuff if they are in the mood And I have to cross town to get the package ....

The happy days weren't going to last forever. Even incompetent paper-pushers can't turn down easy money. I'm guessing they held up your Granite Round 2? It's cursed!

DanielT · 31 Jan 2015, 14:27

Well, that package isn't shipped yet, but I had problems with other packages. For a 30$ package I paid 7$ in taxes even if the law states that I don't have to pay taxes for under 50$. A guy next to me had to pay gor 2 packages worth no more than 35$ around 15$ in taxes. It has become a matter of luck. One thing was working at least decent in this country and they had to change that

The Granite will be shipped with the huge haul from Cindy, that will be painfull

And that package is a monster, Granite 3 SSK's and 2 model M's.
And I think they lost a package with a Bro Bot I won in a giveaway, it was shipped on January 3rd and I don't have a trace of that package.
The good times are gone, I will avoid non EU packages from now on because it's too much of a trouble and I never know how much they will charge me, there is no rule anymore. And the worst part is the location of the customs office, somewhere in the suburbs on the other side of the town with some really strange working hours, I have to leave from work to get it.
So a EU based GB is breath of fresh air

But more important I love the design of the layered X board

gianni · 01 Feb 2015, 22:03

Sorry for the lack of technical terms, but I know that there is a way to connect plate mounted switches to a pcb without soldering, what is this option called, and has it been taken into consideration?

matt3o · 02 Feb 2015, 08:58

you mean hot-plugging? No, I haven't considered that. I'm trying to keep the cost down as much as possible, hot-plugging would bring the cost up.

gianni · 02 Feb 2015, 13:04

These:
http://www.mouser.ee/ProductDetail/TE-C ... SDcUDIJU0=

0.08€*70*2=11.2€

If the switches are really easily removable, it would be a wonderful option to offer. Perfect to make a really configurable keyboard.

matt3o · 02 Feb 2015, 14:55

we would need to sell 30 prototypes (more or less) to get the 0.08 price tag (which is +VAT, btw).

it is definitely something worth experimenting, but not for this first prototype. As of now the priority is the case, which is the most expensive part. Thanks for the feedback, I will definitely add the hot-plugging feature in my to-do!

PS: consider that those small cylinders have a rather short life.

Mal-2 · 02 Feb 2015, 23:59

rindorbrot wrote: ↑I vote for an ISO Choc Mini Layout!
Something like I already posted in the Ducky Layout competition:

I admit being partial to ANSI, but ISO is better than Big-Ass Enter.

I would only be interested if the project has a dedicated function key row. I am not interested in a 60% board. Sorry, I know this is all from old news. It's just that it seems to me there is a plethora of 60% boards, but a shortage of really good minis of the same width but slightly greater depth.

Also, because it greatly facilitates operating by feel, the gutters between Esc/F1, F4/F5, F8/F9, and F12/PrtSc are not optional. The exact size of the gutters is open to interpretation, even 1/4U would be fine with me.

matt3o · 03 Feb 2015, 00:20

60%+arrow cluster are actually pretty rare, and that's the gap I'm going to fill in the very short term.

If the first buy goes well, your design is in my to-do, together with a left-side function cluster.

copter · 03 Feb 2015, 18:24

60% + arrow keys + ISO layout = You can consider my order placed.

Muirium · 03 Feb 2015, 19:20

60% + 4 extra keys ≠ 60%.

65% is a better way to describe it. Especially as there's a whole extra column on a 16x5 board.

gianni · 04 Feb 2015, 15:01

To gain even more traction, maybe that you could make a precut pcb, so if someone wants a poker layout, he can simply break the last vertical column (make a perforated pcb).

Also, please make the case as low as possible, because it of nice to see the plate fun the sides, and because, if the top of the keys is lower, it is more ergonomic.

matt3o · 04 Feb 2015, 15:45

I got back from the manufacturer today... and they needed more reference material, which I provided. Now more waiting.

@gianni, the case is as low as it can be

gianni · 04 Feb 2015, 15:54

Can't wait to see it

Muirium · 05 Feb 2015, 14:03

Nuum wrote: ↑It doesn't feel different without the stabilizer in place, at least not different from the 1.5u keys. I don't know why they put a stabilizer there, especially on such a seldom used key. Next: Find a keyboard with a stabilized 1.5u keycap.

I've found some 1.5 caps with stabiliser mounts, which aren't actually installed. They're on my SGI "Granite". The non PS/2 version…

The 1.75u caps are the same way. And the Apple Extended II also has stab mounts in its 1.75 caps, which again are not installed. Seems to be a bigfoot specialty.

jacobolus · 05 Feb 2015, 20:33

Muirium wrote: ↑I've found some 1.5 caps with stabiliser mounts, which aren't actually installed. They're on my SGI "Granite". The non PS/2 version…

The 1.75u caps are the same way. And the Apple Extended II also has stab mounts in its 1.75 caps, which again are not installed. Seems to be a bigfoot specialty.

All keycaps Alps made of 1.5u or 1.75u size have mounts for stabilizer inserts. They’re only really relevant for Alps integrated dome switches though, IMO. If you tried to stabilize 1.5u keys with standard (SKCM) Alps switches I think you’d get some parts colliding. I can’t remember if I’ve seen any boards where 1.5u keys were actually stabilized, but there were certainly a bunch with stabilized 1.75u keys, in the 80s.

Muirium · 05 Feb 2015, 20:36

The 1.5u caps on the AEK II that I looked at didn't have them. I'll take a look at my Alps integrated dome board to see what's going on there too. Thanks for the pointer.

Findecanor · 05 Feb 2015, 22:52

Muirium wrote: ↑And the Apple Extended II also has stab mounts in its 1.75 caps, which again are not installed.

Not installed? Thanks! I thought I had lost the stabiliser bar when I had disassembled mine ...

By the way, I noticed that my Monterey K208, Alps-keycap mount slider over rubber dome has like a hybrid of Alps and Costar stabilisers. The snaps on the "plate" are like Alps but not set as widely apart. The inserts are indistinguishable from Costar's and Costar inserts work perfectly. The big difference is in the stabiliser wires: they are bent into rectangles like with Alps stabilisers but the rectangles are smaller.

matt3o · 10 Feb 2015, 21:01

ok. I finally got some quotes for the case.

The bent one is probably the best option. The price for few pieces is higher than I wished but still reasonable. 10-15 prototypes should go around €50 each. That would include: aluminum plate, steel case, welding, sanding to refine the weld points.

Price for 50 or more pieces would be much lower, but I don't think there would be enough interest.

idollar · 10 Feb 2015, 21:20

matt3o wrote: ↑ok. I finally got some quotes for the case.

The bent one is probably the best option. The price for few pieces is higher than I wished but still reasonable. 10-15 prototypes should go around €50 each. That would include: aluminum plate, steel case, welding, sanding to refine the weld points.

Price for 50 or more pieces would be much lower, but I don't think there would be enough interest.

Hi Matt3o,

I started to read this thread very late and following the 45 pages is somehow difficult.
Would you mind to post a summary with the final layout and the case ?

thanks in advance

matt3o · 10 Feb 2015, 23:26

this would be the main layout

and the case will look like this (disregard the decorations, the side will be pretty much flat)

there might be some variants in the layout (ISO/ANSI etc) depending on demand.