Topre Realforce 87U ANSI or JIS?

derzemel · 03 Apr 2015, 16:21

Hello,

I have a friend in who is in Tokyo until Monday, and Sunday he will have the whole day to himself.

I want to ask him to get me a 55g Topre Realforce 87u Silent.

I am wondering now, what would the JIS layout mean to me, an European who uses ISO and ANSI?

Can I use the extra keys that JIS has?

Thank you!

P.S.: the JIS version seems to be cheaper, at least on amazon.jp

zts · 03 Apr 2015, 17:46

Check this link:
http://deskthority.net/wiki/ANSI_vs_JIS

I think you'd probably be happier with ANSI in long run in terms of getting replacement keycaps in Europe if needed ... if you go with JIS, then for later JIS needs you'll probably have to shop Japanese webs or eBay. Some people can't adjust to the much smaller spacebar ... personally I don't have that problem but it's worth considering if you can adjust to it. Good luck!

Khers · 03 Apr 2015, 17:56

JIS is quite different from both ISO and ANSI. ISO is closer to ANSI than it is to JIS, the only thing that's really the same is the enter. The majority of differences are on the two lower rows, where especially the bottom row has a funky layout with extra modifiers and a short spacebar.

If you normally use the right shift, also note that this key is shifted one unit to the right, making it more difficult to reach and will probably take some adjusting to.

I'm not particularly well educated on the JIS Realforces but a quick search in the wiki does not turn up any silenced 55g Topres. If you want one, the way to get it is to buy a 55g and a silenced one and combine them.

EDIT: somewhat ninja'd by zts being distracted when writing my post

zts · 03 Apr 2015, 18:04

^ yep .. it's hard to find any silenced RFs, especially in the uniform weight style. Now and then I spot some silenced in variable weights. So, the uniform 55g silenced is a real challenge. And from that perspective I think it's much easier to find silenced in JIS layout, but most of them are in variable weights.

EDIT: like Khers also mentioned the ... short spacebar -- it's not just a touch shorter -- here you can see the difference in size; RF JIS spacebar (white) on the top of the ANSI version of RF87 spacebar:

: RF_JIS_spacebar.jpeg (176.7 KiB) Viewed 4706 times

Muirium · 04 Apr 2015, 02:02

Yeah, JIS is a leap. I don't know what its mods are like for remapping purposes. If you want to type Japanese, it'll work great of course, but I know that's not what you mean! Do those keys send discrete keycodes to the host that can be intercepted by software like Karabiner? If not, then JIS will be a real pain as several mods become forbidden country!

rsadek · 26 Apr 2015, 22:05

Did you end up trying this? I'm thinking of doing the same and want to know if the extra modiers send keycodes to karabiner, etc. before I purchase. I would be awesome to have the extra mods and small spacebar

derzemel · 29 Apr 2015, 10:44

rsadek wrote: ↑Did you end up trying this? I'm thinking of doing the same and want to know if the extra modiers send keycodes to karabiner, etc. before I purchase. I would be awesome to have the extra mods and small spacebar

sorry for answering this late!

Sadly, I did not get it as they were out of stock at the Yodabashi Camera store in Tokyo until the end of April.

I was decided to get the ANSI layout as the JIS layout may prove difficult to use and it seems that Realforce 87U keyboards are not programmable. So I would recommend the ANSI version

vivalarevolución · 28 Jun 2016, 01:11

Necro here, because I have about the same question. I am thinking of purchasing a JIS Realforce keyboard, because the certain types of Realforce and Topre only seem available in JIS. For example, this TKL all 30g Realforce.

Spoiler:

So I am wondering if any ANSI or ISO users have purchased a JIS layout keyboard and got along well enough. Also want the JIS keyboard outputs with certain keys. I am sure that this topic has been covered before, but this is the first thread that popped when I searched around.

amospalla · 28 Jun 2016, 18:03

I moved to JIS a year ago and I can't look back. Being an ISO user for my entire life before.

If you are the kind of user that likes to squeeze every posible combination on your keyboard JIS with some software remapping tool or the Hasu's usb-to-usb converter (much better choice)is the way to go.

Nowadays I would scream and cry if I had to lose all my shortcuts and layers that the extra modifiers allow me to have. Of course not everybody is willing to customize so much a keyboard setup, but this is how I see it.

vivalarevolución · 28 Jun 2016, 20:58

Thanks for the feedback, it is encouraging.

I'm mostly wondering what the keyboard will output with the specialized Japanese keys before using a remapping tool or converter. The additional shortcuts and layers would be a nice feature, too.

Any chance you could share a layout file you used for hasu's converter on a JIS Keyboard?

amospalla · 29 Jun 2016, 22:06

My keymap.c I use to program my Hasu's converter.

I use the extra modifier left to the space bar to do window manager tasks, and the right to left bar as an extra layer for things like moviment keys, del, backspace, insert, etc.

My configuration includes some variations, so I can move the most comfortable way between ISO, JIS and HHKB JIS.

vivalarevolución · 01 Jul 2016, 01:32

Thanks for the info. Quite a bit you can do with those extra modifiers! I decided to try out a Realforce Variable Force with the typical ANSI layout in the meantime. But if I do like the 30g-35g key weight but dislike the overall variable force, I probably will get a JIS Realforce, because it seems to be my only option in a TKL layout with 30g keys.

amospalla · 01 Jul 2016, 18:56

Nothing like seeing what can be done with an example. Having one would have saved me lots of time when configuring mine converter.

vivalarevolución · 01 Jul 2016, 19:52

I think the biggest challenge for me would be figuring the keycodes for the Japanese keys. I have no clue what some of those keycodes might be.

amospalla · 01 Jul 2016, 20:15

With hasu's converter you don't need to know much about keycodes, look at my file, it is like filling in the gaps.

jou · 02 Jul 2016, 00:55

East Asian input is software based. The scan codes are mostly the same and in case of JIS, you have extra keys that emit scan code. Karabiner names the JIS extra keys JIS_* so you can take a look at its scan code definitions

(Fun fact: Chinese people use US-ANSI keyboards)

vivalarevolución · 03 Jul 2016, 01:18

Thanks guys, helps a lot. If I ever do obtain a JIS keyboard, your experiences were helpful.

y11971alex · 04 Jul 2016, 00:56

jou wrote: ↑East Asian input is software based. The scan codes are mostly the same and in case of JIS, you have extra keys that emit scan code. Karabiner names the JIS extra keys JIS_* so you can take a look at its scan code definitions

(Fun fact: Chinese people use US-ANSI keyboards)

Not all. BAE is incredibly popular in Taiwan.