deskthority

While pulling the caps on this thing for the ten billionth time, I figured I might as well film myself doing it since a lot of people report having trouble pulling caps off these without pulling out the slider and hence possibly damaging the keyboard. I use a system that's based on sideways levering that works pretty fast:

Thanks. I use a similar finger based technique. I pry (lever) from the bottom with my thumb. The big problem with keycap pullers is that they tend to grab the side tabs of the switch plunger along with the keycap and pull both off.

Chyros: I pull out the Tab key with the puller like you. You should use the puller for every keys.
Just put the puller on the left side(little bit only) but don't put on the right side together. The work will be better.

andrewjoy wrote: ↑Pin-out of P/N 119640-001



VCC
GND
CLK
N/C
DATA
N/C

All converted protocol is XT

What an amazing work! Could you teach us in details?
I don't have the knowledge write any code in IC. Which hardware and software you use to?

Its just xt (or at least something close) so you can just use a tenssi or pro micro with scorers converter

AArr...I still don't get it.

You need to look at this thread

http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/xt-a ... t2510.html

You need to program the controller first , this is easy with the provided software from https://www.pjrc.com/teensy/

Youn connect the pins onto from the keyboard , to the corresponding pins on the new controller.

And your done

Thank you so much! I got to buy and learn it=]

All, sorry I've been AWOL for a while. Life happens. I see there's some questions for me from way back. Sorry about the super late response. I'll try to get back with more info shortly.

All the best.

So, Chyros, regarding the dating of your keyboard, I can't really help except to say that when Minebea acquired Hi-Tek there was a big plan to build a manufacturing facility in Thailand. If I remember correctly the plan was to build the new thin film keyboard design we were working on at the time. However, I don't think this keyboard ever made if off the ground. It looks to me like the Thailand facility was indeed completed and they manufactured the Series 725 keyboard there for some time. I think the Made in Thailand sticker on your keyboard confirms that.

Not exactly an answer to your question but hopefully filling in another blank.

Great to see you back Dmiloh! We were afraid you did not like us. Thanks for the info. Yeah life can get in the way. All too normal.

Ok, Linear vs. Tactile - Someone asked a ways back why there were two different "feels" offered. Remember that these were the very early days of keyboards. Using a keyboard at all was a new experience to many people. There was no benchmark yet - no right or wrong. It's true that the IBM Selectric feel was much admired. But aside from that product, what keyboards had been around for any length of time? None really except for other typewriters which of course don't really compare. So, some people simply wanted a heavier feel - one with a lot of feedback. Frankly, I was one of them at the time. I wanted that keyswitch really talking back to me. Of course, it was our customers who drove the demand. I can't tell you what the split was as a percentage but I think that the linear switch, which was the first design, far outweighed the tactile switch. A question for the community; how many tactile Series 725 switches are out there?

I promised before to try and find some other people who were around back then to help me with my memory. Another reminder that I should do that.

D'

This is great information Dmiloh! Too bad no one is here right now but they'll read it later. When you say "the very early days of keyboards" what approx. year do you mean?

Cheers D'Milo, the message worked fine by the way! As far as I know there aren't ANY 725s with tactile switches, but then again, it's pretty rare.

Someone managed to date mine to December of '85 - as it was made in Thailand, was that after NMB had acquired Hi-Tek then? It seems to really be a borderline case because there are no NMB markings on it at all.

tactica wrote: ↑

Dmiloh wrote: ↑A question for the community; how many tactile Series 725 switches are out there?

Hello D'Milo,

According to our current wiki entry

http://deskthority.net/wiki/NMB_Hi-Tek

I'm counting like 13 variants for tactile/clicky switches alone if my maths are correct, and it could well be that the list isn't complete.

The clicky switches aren't based off the tactile design though, they're modified linears.

I wonder if the tactile and clicky designs originated from when Hi-Tek was not under NMB yet. Of course, the real jackpot would be knowing how the colour coding for the switches worked .
I wish these Space Invaders were still being made, they're pretty cool switches .

jhill8 wrote: ↑

Dmiloh wrote: ↑All, just ran across your site during a search for any references to Hi-Tek Corp. My father founded Hi-Tek in the early 60's, began manufacturing the Hi-Tek keyboard in the early 70's, and sold the company to Minebea in about 1983. If there's anything you'd like to know about the company or the product, ask away. I don't remember it all, but I can fill in a lot of the blanks for those who'd like to know.
All the best,

D'Milo Hallerberg

Hi my name is John Hill,
A friend and I worked at Hi-Tek for the Dialer division as electronic technicians circa 1977. The first place we worked was an open floor huge facility shared with the much larger keyboard production. This was in Santa Ana, I believe. Very noisy with The dialer division move to a much smaller (and nicer) dialer-only facility off of Lampson in Garden Grove. My friend's name was Raymond Rinehart. I got the job from a friend of my parents Ron Kirchen, we also car pooled to work. My mom, in her '80s remembers a sandra. I was 17 at the time and this was a real upgrade from working at Albertson's as a scab for a short time or mowing lawns. We would troubleshoot and fix the Dialer's that failed testing. We had our own workstations that included nice oscilloscopes, temperature controlled soldering irons, analog and digital volt meters, nice tools and other accessories for the trade. It was a candy store for teenage electronic geeks like us.
I have very recently created a Facebook page for the company since none exists. I have even found a SINGLE image of the Dialer's we used to produce.

Nostalgically, John Hill

John,nice to meet you. Glad to know you worked at Hi-Tek before 80s.
Did you know this keyboard with this switch? And how many different colors/variants of the Hi-tek switch did Hi-tek made?
http://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/tav ... 11158.html

I also found this advert about the dialer. I hope to see What the switch it has. Could you take some photo if possible?
[US Magazine advert][1980.05]Popular Science(page93)
Hi-Tek autotouch automatic telephone dialer

What did the very earliest Hi-Tek design look like? I'm talking about early 70's, not the mid-late 70's waffle structure.

I always assumed that the 1971 DEC VT05 had a Hi-Tek keyboard because all later DEC terminal keyboards were Hi-Tek. But then I found this photo of the VT05 and there's metal instead of the expected plastic waffle:
I just found this photo of a Hazeltine 3000 keyboard, date stamped Jan. 11 1973 and it too has the metal background. Hazeltine was known to use Hi-Tek in their terminals.
So... is this the earliest Hi-Tek? Is it Hi-Tek at all?

The fonts (and keycap shape) of the two terminals look the same.. and same as this ADDS Envoy from 1972:



It's a pity these terminals are so rare that it's too difficult (and expensive) to get one to find out for sure.

Wow those ADDS keycaps, everytime I see those colors.

So... is this the earliest Hi-Tek? Is it Hi-Tek at all?

My guess is we won't find out any time soon.

I am arriving quite late to this conversation

tactica wrote: ↑ An entry for it in the wiki wouldn't hurt. At this pace I don't expect one from Max any time soon...

Well, I already told you that is quite likely that the board will travel back to you (but before I will spend a couple of hours just pressing keys to keep some nice memories

seebart wrote: ↑Impressive tactica! Too bad you sold it.

Thanks for sharing John. Sounds like you enjoyed that job.

Not that bad, he split the stash with me Unfortunately I had to leave the keyboard back in Spain while I am living the Dutch life here in the Netherlands. I have thought twice and maybe the keyboard should go to someone that will spend a bit more of time with it and will document it nicely. On the other hands NMBs are like Valyrian steel, not sure if I am doing the right thing letting it go

mr_a500 wrote: ↑ Hazeltine was known to use Hi-Tek in their terminals.

My Hazeltine 1510 has Hi-Teks.

mr_a500 wrote: ↑So... is this (Hazeltine 3000) the earliest Hi-Tek? Is it Hi-Tek at all?

I don't think this is Hi-Tek. In fact, I was thinking it might be metal covers that go over the early Micro Switch hall-effect metal channels. It's only a theory but if the price of that Hazeltine 3000 comes down, I am watching it.

That DEC VT-05 is sweet but out of my price range since it looks like the top board is corroding and I don't think it can be restored without parts.

From my research, I've discovered that the 1970 DEC VT05 (and Hazeltine 2000/3000, ADDS Envoy) used a keyboard made by "Control Devices", what appears to be the first foam & foil capacitive switch. (years before Key Tronic and Cherry foam & foil)

Here are some VT05 engineering diagrams:

Before moving to "Control Devices" (and later to Cherry), it looks like ADDS also used Micro Switch. Here is an ad from 1970, showing a Micro Switch keyboard:
(...but does anybody care about this? Probably not. I'll just post for reference.)

We need more research on Control Devices and another unknown switch from Controls Research Corp., which made the keyboards in the 1969 Alphacom and 1973 ADM-1.

I'll continue here instead of opening a new thread on the same subject:

NMB HI-TEK Series 725 122-key

D'Milo Hallerberg:

So, Chyros, regarding the dating of your keyboard, I can't really help except to say that when Minebea acquired Hi-Tek there was a big plan to build a manufacturing facility in Thailand. If I remember correctly the plan was to build the new thin film keyboard design we were working on at the time. However, I don't think this keyboard ever made if off the ground. It looks to me like the Thailand facility was indeed completed and they manufactured the Series 725 keyboard there for some time. I think the Made in Thailand sticker on your keyboard confirms that.

According to the sticker on the backplate, the PCB and the markings inside the case this Series 725 keyboard was manufactured on 20-7-1987 at a Minebea facility in Thailand.
This one is in very good condition. It's almost impossible to convey the build quality of this keyboard through the pictures, I am a big fan of IBM Model F and M,in this case it might be arguable that this keyboard is sturdier and better build quality than an IBM M-122. Like all the space invaders I have tried, very smooth and consistent across the board unlike the Omron B3G series for example.

This keyboard uses white linear two-small-eyed NMB-HI-TEK "space invaders" Series 725 and a neon-green two-small-eyed heavier weighted linear switch for the spacebar similair to what appears in terrycherry's recent elaborate Hi-Tek 725 series post:

photos-f62/i-throught-it-s-hi-tek-725-s ... 13595.html

D'Milo Hallerberg:
The keyboard you have is made with the Series 725 switch we developed in the last few years before selling to Minebea. The 725 refers to the ergonomic standard (Max .725" off the desk surface) that came out during that period that effectively obsoleted the standard series we'd been making for many years prior.

The keycaps are dyesub on PBT with legends in the top right of the keycap for the alphas. The fuction keys are grey with an elegant "thin" font, some with secondary ledgends on the front.
The space invaders are PCB mounted, this keyboard has a very sturdy metal backplate.
The case has a very nice texture to it.
The solution to holding the calbe in place inside the case is the best I have ever seen.
It's a shame NMB-HI-TEK keyboards are not more common, anyhing nearly like this is awesome.

Chyros Tandon branded HI-TEK Series 725 keyboard which is a more compact XT style keyboard that predates mine has certain elements like the flip-feet, the inside of the case amd the shape of the metal backplate look identical to mine. Notice how Chyros PCB only reads "HI-TEK" while mine reads "NMB HI-TEK", both were manufactured in Thailand during that Minebea / Hi-Tek transition period.
----------------------------------
Weight: 2810g
Dimensions:
55,5cm wide
22,5cm deep
2cm tall at front
5,5cm tall at top of function rows

More pics:

Very nice! I didn't know there were Space Invaders battleships ( :p ). It definitely has LOTS of things in common with mine, but I also noticed it has the outside notches of the RT-101, which I thought were unique to that board. Most interesting! Definitely looks very well-built like all these very old NMB Hi-Tek boards .

I like the sound of "Space Invader battleships". Too bad D'Milo isn't around anymore, he might have something too add to this.

If your ever looking to unload this beauty....

Engicoder wrote: ↑If your ever looking to unload this beauty....

Noted. I your case possibly a trade.