F104+SSK+122+62+77+50+Ergo orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards

pyrelink · 01 Aug 2015, 04:14

If I had the option I would buy a F77 HHKB over the regular F77.

kuato · 01 Aug 2015, 15:18

Redmaus wrote:
kuato wrote: ↑I can't believe I missed this thread... Just signed up for an F77.
Long time no see!

things are back to normal after the move.

Muirium · 01 Aug 2015, 15:24

pyrelink wrote: ↑If I had the option I would buy a F77 HHKB over the regular F77.

Me 3. But I can't commit to anything this expensive ahead of time. Just no room in my budget. Even for the regular $350 figure.

So I suppose the counter goes back to 2 then…

chalks · 02 Aug 2015, 17:24

A couple of questions:

1. What are the dimensions of the cases for both F62 and F77?

2. Is the grey colour option meant to match the industrial SSK like this one? http://deskthority.net/f-o-r-s-a-l-e-f5 ... 10091.html

Ellipse · 03 Aug 2015, 00:02

Case dimensions are around 16.5 x 7 in. for the F77 and 14 x 7 in. for the F62.

Yes the gray is intended to be approximately RAL 7030 which is similar to the bolt modded Industrial SSK I have for sale (this one is another ISSK of mine and is IMO a little more color accurate than the one in your link)

: Industrial SSK for sale.jpg (982.34 KiB) Viewed 5116 times

Hypersphere · 03 Aug 2015, 01:15

I signed up on the form that is linked on the first page of this thread. There was a blank field to enter choice of case color, but I didn't see a list of color choices. Is there a list of color choices from which we should choose? If so, I might need to revise my responses. Thanks.

Ellipse · 03 Aug 2015, 02:03

Feel free to recommend any color Hypersphere. At this point I expect something close to the original color and Industrial Grey for the choices, and maybe clear coat or anodized/brushed for a few units if people are interested.

Hypersphere · 03 Aug 2015, 02:07

Ellipse wrote: ↑Feel free to recommend any color Hypersphere. At this point I expect something close to the original color and Industrial Grey for the choices, and maybe clear coat or anodized/brushed for a few units if people are interested.

I listed black, but original or industrial gray would be fine as well. The color might not matter, as I am considering having the case powder-coated.

Ellipse · 03 Aug 2015, 02:10

ok no problem. The factory is powdercoating all the cases either gray, original/beige/off-white, or black. I am hoping they can approximate the thick/bumpy powdercoat of the original.

fohat · 03 Aug 2015, 02:11

I doubt that I will be able to afford one of these, but if I bought a keyboard in a metal case I would damn well want to see the metal!

Hypersphere · 03 Aug 2015, 02:16

@Ellipse: Powder-coated black sounds good.

@fohat: Good point, even if it is cast aluminum. It would be really great if it were stainless steel or CNC aluminum.

jbondeson · 03 Aug 2015, 02:19

Ellipse wrote:Yes anyone interested in an F77 HHKB please let me know.

Everyone interested would most likely just have to split about $100 in extra tooling costs plus a little extra for the PCB. The more ways it is split, the lower the cost of the F77 HHKB style split right shift option.

What would that do to the keycaps? Unicomp doesn't have the short shift, so what would be the possible replacements?

Edit - re-read the thread and I didn't see a definitive answer on those of us who would want to buy a set of caps and may want the 1.75+1 split layout.

XMIT · 03 Aug 2015, 03:16

As I've said before, I really don't want an HHKB style split right shift, please. I'm only interested in the F77 at the moment. If others express enough interest, so be it, but I hope that HHKB style shift is not the only option available.

Ellipse · 03 Aug 2015, 05:28

XMIT - regular F62 and regular F77 will be options, as well as HHKB style for both F62 and F77 - all but 17 or so of the preorders want the regular layouts instead of split right shift HHKB style.

jbondeson - for the HHKB style layout, the stepped caps lock key for the left part of the split right shift key and a regular 1 unit key for the function key (the right part of the split right shift key) is what the HHKB style crowd is asking for. If you don't want a stepped caps lock key in that place, it's my understanding you can buy a full JIS key set from Unicomp for that one non-stepped shift key, or you can just use the regular right shift key.

Allow me to repost an example HHKB style photo for reference:

: kishsaver layout 0101.jpg (73.71 KiB) Viewed 5041 times

webwit · 03 Aug 2015, 10:53

I'd definitely prefer HHKB style, but I don't think the form asked me about that.

hammelgammler · 03 Aug 2015, 11:12

@webwit - Yeah I asked whether or not that could be an option, and if there are enough people then the price could go down for a HHKB F77. How many F77 interested people do we have including me?

@ellipse - What we can use a real right shift with the JIS set? That would be fantastic! But could be really use the normal right shift with HHKB layout? Shouldn't the barrels be in different places to even support the split shift? That would mean you have three options with HHKB style: normal, stepped split and JIS split?

Hypersphere · 03 Aug 2015, 14:24

webwit wrote: ↑I'd definitely prefer HHKB style, but I don't think the form asked me about that.

I, also. Thanks.

Vizir · 03 Aug 2015, 15:48

Would it be possible to see the powder coating and the brushed/anodized colors? I think a visual might help, if it is possible.

0100010 · 03 Aug 2015, 21:42

hammelgammler wrote: ↑ -snip-
What we can use a real right shift with the JIS set? That would be fantastic! But could be really use the normal right shift with HHKB layout? Shouldn't the barrels be in different places to even support the split shift? That would mean you have three options with HHKB style: normal, stepped split and JIS split?

Unicomp Japanese 106 key layout has the normal right shift key barrel positions, meaning a 1x on the left side and a 1.75x non stepped key on the right side. Yes, a normal right shift can replace both of those keys.

The F62 'HHKB' layout in my image above, has unique right shift barrel positions. A 1.75x key on the left and a 1x key on the right. A normal right shift cannot be used with this layout.

Ellipse · 04 Aug 2015, 02:20

Vizir - I am trying to make the powdercoating like on the original 4704 keyboards. Here's an example of the F77 texture and original color. The white balance is off in this photo. For the gray color I hope to approximate RAL 7030 gray like in the Kishsaver of a fellow DT member: http://deskthority.net/viewtopic.php?p=148314#p148314

hammelgammler · 04 Aug 2015, 10:14

0100010 wrote: ↑ Unicomp Japanese 106 key layout has the normal right shift key barrel positions, meaning a 1x on the left side and a 1.75x non stepped key on the right side. Yes, a normal right shift can replace both of those keys.

The F62 'HHKB' layout in my image above, has unique right shift barrel positions. A 1.75x key on the left and a 1x key on the right. A normal right shift cannot be used with this layout.

Yeah that makes sense, I would be quite confused if it was not the way.

Thanks for clarification.

Vizir · 04 Aug 2015, 15:23

Ellipse wrote:Vizir - I am trying to make the powdercoating like on the original 4704 keyboards. Here's an example of the F77 texture and original color. The white balance is off in this photo. For the gray color I hope to approximate RAL 7030 gray like in the Kishsaver of a fellow DT member: http://deskthority.net/viewtopic.php?p=148314#p148314

Hmm. Why is it so tough to decide on colors. Let me think about it.

Others who are going with hhkb style right shift: what are we going to do for the right shift key? Will we have to buy a complete set from unicomp for 1 key?

XMIT · 04 Aug 2015, 15:54

0100010 wrote: ↑The F62 'HHKB' layout in my image above, has unique right shift barrel positions. A 1.75x key on the left and a 1x key on the right. A normal right shift cannot be used with this layout.

If such a key existed it would enable HHKB style barrel placement without requiring an HHKB style layout. This seems like it satisfies all parties. We just need such a key. It may require a new mold; I'm not sure.

chzel · 04 Aug 2015, 16:14

XMIT wrote: ↑If such a key existed it would enable HHKB style barrel placement without requiring an HHKB style layout. This seems like it satisfies all parties. We just need such a key. It may require a new mold; I'm not sure.

Rsbseb to the rescue?
If his plans flourish, maybe we can hope for a HHKB shift custom mould?

wcass · 05 Aug 2015, 01:59

"HHKB" style will never be possible starting from a "standard" right shift. The right side of a "standard" right shift has the pivot plate centered at the left edge of where you would want to put the Function key. A "Standard" style top plate and PCB can use either a standard 2.75x right shift cap OR a 1x cap + a 1.75x cap. A "HHKB" style top plate and PCB can only use a 1.75x cap + 1x cap (OK - you could use any smaller cap in place of the 1.75x cap, but there will be a gap on at least one side).

: Right shift spacing.jpg (39.54 KiB) Viewed 4796 times

Unicomp made a stepped 1.75x cap with "Shift" on it for me once but the last time i asked for one, i had to settle for a blank.

Muirium · 05 Aug 2015, 02:09

Yup. That split is there to cover these layouts:

Muirium wrote: ↑ Brazilian:

JIS:

Notably, both have Shift keys we could use with the "HHKB" arrangement. I'd prefer to use original IBM caps on a board like this, over Unicomp's.

hammelgammler · 05 Aug 2015, 02:19

Seems like it's good that i love blank keycaps. Would you say there are any differences between a "blank" original IBM cap and a Unicomp black one? Or is it just the font/lettering that's different?
But i think there is no non-stepped 1.75 key in blank right?... Man that would be so perfect to have that. But stepped would not be a real problem either, as my right shift usage goes against zero.

Btw, i would really love to own a F77 HHKB layout, how much people do we have for it?
I would say a number of 4 people should be sufficient for it? $25 more for HHKB layout would be worth it for me.

The FN key could come very handy to access the F keys on the number row.

XMIT · 05 Aug 2015, 03:11

FWIW, my solution to this issue on smaller keyboards is to use a small left shift, and put a Fn key between LShift and Z. Or, really, I use the key on the lower right corner of the main section of the keyboard (under RShift) as a Fn key.

hammelgammler · 05 Aug 2015, 03:18

Well yeah that would be my backup plan, and i would see no issue with that on the F77, but nevertheless i would like to have a F77 HHKB.

IMHO it's just nicer to have a smaller right shift, who presses the right shift further then 1.75 keys wide? 1.75 should be more then sufficient to press it, at least for me when i use it.

A huge advantage for me would be, that it doesn't need a stabilizer insert with the 1.75 key, which gives the key a MUCH better key feeling. In addition to that you would have another key left for whatever reason.

XMIT · 05 Aug 2015, 03:30

hammelgammler wrote: ↑who presses the right shift further then 1.75 keys wide?

I do!

I often hit the corner of it with my pinky. Always have. The day that I discovered that I could use PTFE and/or PFPAE lubricant on a Model M's barrel stabilizers was an amazing day. It was finally the end of binding right Shift keys after years of searching!