July 29th Windows 10!

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fohat
Elder Messenger

10 Aug 2015, 15:09

Muirium wrote:
I much prefer USB to the lunatic mess of shitey random ports that preceded it.

USB cleaned up a lot of physical mess.
You are totally right, I was just whining.

And I particularly like the way that backwards compatibility is generally respected or acknowledged.

Now if there was just a way to screw them down securely when you did not want them to jiggle or move .....

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002
Topre Enthusiast

10 Aug 2015, 15:12

I'm sure I read somewhere that most cables these days are purposely not lock in because of the drama caused when some gumby bastard tripped or walked through locked in cables and dragged all the hardware off the desk? :)

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SL89

10 Aug 2015, 17:33

So i updated my work machine manually, and it broke things as i said.

But with my home machine, I waited for the automatic update. Nothing broke, same model PC, same everything.

I likewise disabled all the tracking and BS and thus far the home machine has been nothing but nice.

I still may go fulltime to Linuxland or build a new Hackintosh, but this works for now.

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Compgeke

10 Aug 2015, 17:42

I upgraded my desktop, spare laptop I use for OBD II testing, brother's desktop and brother's laptop and none had issues other than video drives needing to be reinstalled on the nVidia graphics. Might just be luck, but I've had no issues at all.
002 wrote: I'm sure I read somewhere that most cables these days are purposely not lock in because of the drama caused when some gumby bastard tripped or walked through locked in cables and dragged all the hardware off the desk? :)
One thing I'm used to with screwed cable is either being able to pick up the tower by the cable or the cable ripping the port off the expansion cards\motherboard. One downside I see with USB is when it breaks off it still tends to screw up both the computer and cable side.

If you really want locking USB though, you could invest in a POS machine. I know the IBM (now Toshiba) machines have a locking USB port used for scanners\cash drawers\etc. You can even pull 12 or 24V power from 'em.

Image

Gregor1985

05 Oct 2015, 16:00

I installed Windows 10 and my laptop and sisters tablet, and nothing good happened. I had to reinstall on Windows 8.1

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7bit

05 Oct 2015, 16:02

You should have installed Debian 8.2!
:ugeek:

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XMIT
[ XMIT ]

05 Oct 2015, 17:08

For what reason exactly? The old version still serves me well on my work system.

Code: Select all

$ cat /etc/issue
Debian GNU/Linux 7 \n \l

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7bit

05 Oct 2015, 17:09

Code: Select all

 cat /etc/issue
Debian GNU/Linux 5.0 \n \l 
:P

.
.
.
.

:shock:

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scottc

05 Oct 2015, 17:25

I'm afraid to upgrade anything critical to Jessie. I expect great systemd-related pain...

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SL89

05 Oct 2015, 18:11

I'm in the process of leaving windows 10 right now and going to Debian full time.

I do not like how updates are handled, or how you can't turn off things like Edge or Cortana. They both are 'disabled' but still keep running in the background.

Also despite having 8gb of ram on this system my usage is constantly at about 25% and its all system stuff like windows and Intel things.

I wanted to like it but it's really rather poor performing even on hardware under 6mos old.

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XMIT
[ XMIT ]

05 Oct 2015, 20:26

Code: Select all

$ free
             total       used       free     shared    buffers     cached
Mem:      24737256   24110068     627188          0    1513620   12403180
-/+ buffers/cache:   10193268   14543988
Swap:            0          0          0
Of the rest, the biggest offenders are Virtualbox, the Chrome browser, and Thunderbird. Oh, and pulseaudio - stupid pulseaudio.
SL89 wrote: I wanted to like it but it's really rather poor performing even on hardware under 6mos old.
::shudder::

Have desktop PCs even gotten faster since 2011? I guess we have DDR4 memory now.

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Muirium
µ

05 Oct 2015, 20:42

Yeah, Moore's law ain't what it used to be, in Intel's hands anyway.

I for one really look forward to Apple's A series processors coming to the Mac. Those are still getting faster by leaps and bounds, with no slowdown in sight. And I'd quite like 24 hours of solid battery life on my next laptop. I don't virtualise, dual boot, or even run much in the way of old software on this one. The last processor architecture shift was a good one, what's to say there won't be another…

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Halvar

05 Oct 2015, 22:59

Intel has made quite a good progress in the last 5 years as far as energy consumption is concerned. If you look at Intel-based tablets or even notebooks, they're almost on par with ARM now despite having to be compatible to a 30 year old instruction set.

What keeps Windows slow and energy-inefficient is the compatibility with the old PC programming model, programs and services keep sucking processing power all the time. Windows 8 / 10 "modern apps" and iOS are much better in that respect. Linux and MacOS probably aren't.

If you aren't happy with the performance and especially energy consumption of Windows 10 on modern hardware I don't think that using Linux will help you much.

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Muirium
µ

05 Oct 2015, 23:44

OS X's a beaut on modern hardware. In fact, it's not even sluggish on my 9 year old Mac Pro, at 4k. Despite the fact Apple doesn't even support that old machine any more!

It'd be refreshing for the PC guys to see Microsoft do to its OS what they did to Internet Explorer with Edge. Wouldn't exactly count on it though. Windows 8 and 10 are radically re-skinned, but seem to share the same churn-happy guts of Windows 7 behind the surface.

User avatar
XMIT
[ XMIT ]

06 Oct 2015, 04:11

Halvar wrote: If you aren't happy with the performance and especially energy consumption of Windows 10 on modern hardware I don't think that using Linux will help you much.
That's a very broad statement.

Linux systems allow one to go in with a scalpel and remove anything that isn't important. My workstation uses a tiling window manager and many services are disabled. There is very little between applications and the CPU. If anything I get higher performance on Linux systems thanks to the kernel's aggressive use of a RAM cache for disk accesses.

On a laptop the largest consumers of power are the display, CPU, and wireless subsystem. Modern kernels have quite good for modern CPUs and their power states. Power consumption should be quite good as well.

I'll leave it to AnandTech, etc. to compare power consumption. Using a dual socketed workstation this frankly isn't a concern. I can't go much under 100W at idle. :o Fortunately the employer pays that electric bill. :roll:

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sth
2 girls 1 cuprubber

06 Oct 2015, 12:58

XMIT wrote:
Halvar wrote: If you aren't happy with the performance and especially energy consumption of Windows 10 on modern hardware I don't think that using Linux will help you much.
That's a very broad statement.

Linux systems allow one to go in with a scalpel and remove anything that isn't important. My workstation uses a tiling window manager and many services are disabled. There is very little between applications and the CPU. If anything I get higher performance on Linux systems thanks to the kernel's aggressive use of a RAM cache for disk accesses.

On a laptop the largest consumers of power are the display, CPU, and wireless subsystem. Modern kernels have quite good for modern CPUs and their power states. Power consumption should be quite good as well.

I'll leave it to AnandTech, etc. to compare power consumption. Using a dual socketed workstation this frankly isn't a concern. I can't go much under 100W at idle. :o Fortunately the employer pays that electric bill. :roll:
yes - even with a floating wm my normal RAM usage with 10-15 tabs of icecat, 4-7 urxvt windows and sometimes mpd is usually under 2GB, and that includes my window manager, lemonbar, pretty compositing and all daemons running behind the scenes. my cpu is usually around 10-20% per core (and usually only 1 core at a time above 15%). if i was running gnome or KDE it would probably be at least another GB on top of that just to be doing things i dont need, or doing those things i DO need in an ineficcient, gui-happy way.

if i was running windows, i'd probably be closer to 3.5-4GB used up by the time i had all my programs running. :ugeek:

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Halvar

06 Oct 2015, 14:04

I'm running Windows 10 on an Atom Z3740 1,3GHz tablet with 2 GB of RAM, and it's more than enough for simple browsing, watching photos and videos, reading etc. CPU is at 2-3% in idle, and that's with the CPU even running slower when it's in idle state for a while.
XMIT wrote: That's a very broad statement.
Yes, you're right, too broad a statement in its generality, but the context here was this:
Also despite having 8gb of ram on this system my usage is constantly at about 25% and its all system stuff like windows and Intel things.
This is definitely not normal, and it should be as easy/hard to find out what causes this as it would be with a similar problem on Linux (open process manager and have a look). Especially, I wouldn't expect it to be something that can't be turned off (if it's something unwanted).

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SL89

06 Oct 2015, 18:07

As I said, a lot of what was chewing up resources were cortana ~11% to 16% of my RAM at any given time, despite being 'off' in every way possible. Perhaps my attempts to hobble it increased its usage as it was trying to phone home.

But after jumping to Debian 8.2 with XFCE the same use case (almost app for app) is now <13% of my RAM with the same amounts of tabs, extensions and other apps running.

Intel modules seem to be non existent as well. So between losing Cortana and the tiles and random stuff that I thought was disabled in windows but really wasn't I've gotten ~15% of my ram ultilization down. In W10 I also notived that even tho the RAM usage was high, the CPU utilization was generally very low, but every so often it would spike spike spike and everything would drag ass.

So far the only thing I'm missing on Debian is a linux driver for a USB to VGA adapter, and tbf it's less of an issue as I'm u sing XFCE's spaces more efficiently then I was using the similar setup on W10.

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Muirium
µ

06 Oct 2015, 18:11

Microsoft's just mining bitcoins on your computer. You did read that far into the EULA, right?

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SL89

06 Oct 2015, 18:37

Muirium wrote: Microsoft was just mining bitcoins on your computer. You did read that far into the EULA, right?

FTFY ;)

andrewjoy

06 Oct 2015, 20:18

Windows 10.

Good system , useful feature , super fast , steals your data!

However 99% of the data collection can be turned off.

Apple does exactly the same with spotlight in OSX

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XMIT
[ XMIT ]

06 Oct 2015, 20:23

On a more serious note, for OS X, I found this guide helpful:

https://github.com/drduh/OS-X-Yosemite- ... vacy-Guide

For Windows 10 I saw a similar guide around and then misplaced it. Argh. This looks promising:

http://pxc-coding.com/portfolio/donotspy10/

Never install the new version of a big name consumer OS the first day! I usually give them a few *months* so all the issues can be shaken out. This includes Mac OS, Windows, and Android. It would include iOS if I had any iOS devices.

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SL89

06 Oct 2015, 20:25

Apple, Microsoft and Google are all in the same arena with regards to privacy.

That being said MS just dropped this: https://www.microsoft.com/surface/en-us ... rface-book

Even Mr.Mu can probably get behind that shiny new toy.

Regarding XMIT's privacy protocols i used these:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comm ... ing_in_w10

https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comm ... 0_privacy/

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SL89

06 Oct 2015, 20:35

And they are working on getting the privacy stuff built into Tron

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Muirium
µ

06 Oct 2015, 22:15

SL89 wrote: Apple, Microsoft and Google are all in the same arena with regards to privacy.
Nope. I'd love to see Google adopt Apple's privacy policy!

http://techcrunch.com/2015/09/29/apple- ... cy-policy/
SL89 wrote: That being said MS just dropped this: https://www.microsoft.com/surface/en-us ... rface-book

Even Mr.Mu can probably get behind that shiny new toy.
Nope. The Surface is a flawed concept not because of its hardware but because of its software. Trying to be all things to all men is the very definition of compromise. In a world where we're all already using multiple devices, in the form of phones! I'd like to see them get the reason for its ongoing flop, and to do something else entirely. But that's a tall order for a software empire that's still only dabbling in hardware. So much easier to keep tweaking the form factor, while the platform never takes off.

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SL89

06 Oct 2015, 22:23

That privacy policy sounds no different then the Blackberry ones, or the Google ones for that matter. Apple just knows how to market what is already in front of people right back to them.

I was talking mostly to the hardware, I'd hardly consider the Surface a flop either way. I am no apologist for these monoliths, but all of them are slowly inching away from user choice into a very 'all things to all men' approach. Even you have to admit Apples new toys strike the same chords as the Surface and it's ilk. iPen? iPad Pro? come now, the monoculture is right around the corner ;)

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seebart
Offtopicthority Instigator

06 Oct 2015, 22:35

Muirium wrote: Nope. I'd love to see Google adopt Apple's privacy policy!

http://techcrunch.com/2015/09/29/apple- ... cy-policy/
Apple is best at PR and the hippest of the lot. Apple is the best at making you Apple users believe your data is 100% safe and that you`re buying the best hardware and need to pay top $$$ bucks for it. Microsoft seems clumsy and dorky like a old bunch of nerds too obsessed with their own software to keep up with Apples smooth PR. Google is the combination plus the ultimate joker; the biggest single data collection in the world and they don`t give a fuck cause you`re either taking part or you`re Apple because M$ is too lame like some old uncle although they do release good software. Google will never adopt anything from anyone anymore, they`re way over that point in a bad way. Google is like a giant snowball full of data and profit going downhill...but it still keeps going and getting bigger.

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SL89

06 Oct 2015, 22:42

Right on.

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Touch_It

06 Oct 2015, 22:43

Compgeke wrote: I upgraded my desktop, spare laptop I use for OBD II testing, brother's desktop and brother's laptop and none had issues other than video drives needing to be reinstalled on the nVidia graphics. Might just be luck, but I've had no issues at all.
002 wrote: I'm sure I read somewhere that most cables these days are purposely not lock in because of the drama caused when some gumby bastard tripped or walked through locked in cables and dragged all the hardware off the desk? :)
One thing I'm used to with screwed cable is either being able to pick up the tower by the cable or the cable ripping the port off the expansion cards\motherboard. One downside I see with USB is when it breaks off it still tends to screw up both the computer and cable side.

If you really want locking USB though, you could invest in a POS machine. I know the IBM (now Toshiba) machines have a locking USB port used for scanners\cash drawers\etc. You can even pull 12 or 24V power from 'em.

Image

HA. I work on POS systems for a living. I see/use these ports daily. Red is for receipt printer. Green is for pin pads. (For the POS systems I work on.) Cash drawer connects to the receipt printer.

User avatar
sth
2 girls 1 cuprubber

07 Oct 2015, 08:45

SL89 wrote: Apple, Microsoft and Google are all in the same arena with regards to privacy.

That being said MS just dropped this: https://www.microsoft.com/surface/en-us ... rface-book

Even Mr.Mu can probably get behind that shiny new toy.
yeesh, that 'hinge' :|

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