Pok3r -> iPad. Feasibility inquiry.

zslane · 31 Aug 2015, 00:25

So does anyone around here use a Pok3r with an iPad? And I mean wired, not bluetooth.

My questions are:

1. Does the lack of Apple-orientedness present a significant obstacle to usability? For instance, lack of a dedicated "go to sleep" button?

2. Does the lack of volume controls become really annoying?

3. Is there a way to configure it so that using the cursor keys is a chording (modeless) operation and not a layer-switching (modal) operation? I saw a YouTube review that said the Caps Lock key could be configured to be the Fn key, but my understanding of the layering feature is that you use Fn + Layer# key to put you into that layer, and you are in that layer until you Fn + Default out of it, which is cumbersome for quick cursor key manipulation. Or are the cursor keys usable without a layer change?

4. If you attach a wired keyboard to an iPad that is also paired with a bluetooth keyboard, do they both work simultaneously or does one take precedence over the other?

Thanks!

zslane · 09 Sep 2015, 20:20

So I decided to just spring for a Pok3r and hook it up to my iPad and see how well it worked. I had read some Reddit threads that gave me hope, but only direct experience was going to answer all my questions.

1. So far I'd say that the lack of an equivalent to the iPad Home and Lock buttons is only a minor nuisance. The far more annoying issue is the tendency of the iPad to wake up periodically and announce that it "Can not use device". This message is actually a lie; the keyboard works just fine. It's just that it isn't an approved device as far as Apple is concerned (nothing is unless it is a camera), and this is how iOS chooses to nag you about it. There is no way to disable this behavior either.

2. It turns out that with the latest firmware (1.1.4), the Pok3r does indeed provide volume controls for the iPad natively on the default layer. FN + S/D/F. Handy! Unfortunately, there are no media transport controls for the iPad.

3. It turns out that FN + I/J/K/L on the default layer sends cursor navigation commands to the iPad. Furthermore, I turned on DIP switch 3 so that the Caps Lock key became the FN key, and now I can comfortably chord FN with I/J/K/L to produce easy cursor navigation. Awesome!

4. Yes, both the Pok3r and my Bluetooth keyboard (Targus keyboard case) work simultaneously. This somewhat helps alleviate the pain of not having Home/Lock button functionality in the Pok3r. It is definitely better than nothing.

In order to make little keyboards like the Pok3r perfect for iPads, Apple must first bless USB keyboards as approved devices and get rid of the annoying warning popup box. Then, Vortex needs to update the firmware to provide a Home and Lock button signal on the default layer from an otherwise unused FN+ key combination (or maybe Ctrl+FN or something). Lastly, media transport key functionality on the default layer would be icing on the cake.

MrMen · 10 Sep 2015, 22:22

Actually I have a keyboard with my iPad. It's a HHKB with hasu's controller with TMK. And it's kind of perfect : you can customize firmware with TMK and do what you want.
So maybe you should have a look to a TMK compliant keyboard.

zslane · 10 Sep 2015, 22:35

Does it trick the iPad into believing it is a camera?

Muirium · 10 Sep 2015, 22:43

Bluetooth keyboards are officially supported.

The Eject key toggles the onscreen software keyboard, I presume? Does on my little Apple Bluetooth board, as I recall.

Actually, scrub that, only Apple's board's have that mysterious hack of a key.

MrMen · 10 Sep 2015, 23:07

I juste tried it at the moment with usb. It displays a warning and then on screen keyboard disapear. So it seems to be recognized as a keyboard.

zslane · 10 Sep 2015, 23:07

Muirium wrote: ↑Bluetooth keyboards are officially supported.

The Eject key toggles the onscreen software keyboard, I presume? Does on my little Apple Bluetooth board, as I recall.

Actually, scrub that, only Apple's board's have that mysterious hack of a key.

Yes, but my Pok3r isn't a Bluetooth keyboard. Besides that, I am not a fan of Bluetooth keyboards with the iPad in general. There is a maddening tendency for them to drop connection with the iPad when either goes into sleep mode, and I am forced to reset and repair them. I vastly prefer the stability of a wired keyboard, thankyouverymuch.

zslane · 10 Sep 2015, 23:09

MrMen wrote: ↑I juste tried it at the moment with usb. It displays a warning and then on screen keyboard disapear. So it seems to be recognized as a keyboard.

Yes, as mentioned in my second post, iOS nags you about the device even though it works just fine. And it continues to nag periodically, waking up the iPad and generally mucking with its sleep mode and related state. And all because Apple has decided that only cameras are valid devices to be connected to the Lightning connector.

Muirium · 10 Sep 2015, 23:33

zslane wrote: ↑ And all because Apple has decided that only cameras are valid devices to be connected to the Lightning connector.

It is the "Camera Connection Kit" after all. Not a true USB port. They don't want you using arbitrary devices like mice!

I mentioned Bluetooth because that's what Hasu's HHKB controller is about. Mr.Men didn't need a trick.

zslane · 10 Sep 2015, 23:46

Muirium wrote: ↑It is the "Camera Connection Kit" after all. Not a true USB port. They don't want you using arbitrary devices like mice!

Yeah, I get that. It's just that they officially support external (i.e., physical) keyboards. And they have a USB-compatible input port. The inability of the latter to properly deliver the features of the former is what has me scratching my head.

I might be more of a fan of Bluetooth if it didn't add yet another device to the system with a voracious appetite for batteries, and if it managed device connections more seamlessly/reliably.

I guess it's really my fault for trying to use my iPad like a laptop.

Muirium · 11 Sep 2015, 00:15

Yeah, you're definitely doing it wrong!

As I routinely say around here: I prefer typing on an iPad or iPhone virtual keyboard to non-mechs, including the chiclet board in my MacBook Pro. I know exactly what I'm getting from glass, but physical keyboards can't help compare to Topre or IBM as far as my fingers are concerned, and the result is constant dissatisfaction! At least onscreen software keyboards weigh nothing, don't need any storing, and the legends don't wear.

zslane · 11 Sep 2015, 00:35

Yeah, well, after years of being driven nuts by the virtual keyboard, I finally sold my soul to Bluetooth case keyboards earlier this year. As annoying as the Bluetooth connectivity nonsense is, and as bad as those chiclet keys are, I am a vastly happier user for it. I don't want to type on glass ever again.

Better still is using a real mechanical with spherical keycaps...

Muirium · 11 Sep 2015, 00:47

zslane wrote: ↑Better still is using a real mechanical with spherical keycaps...

See, that's the thing. People like to see in black and white and often confuse my argument for "Wut, you like typing on glass as much as your beamspring!??!!?" No, I don't of course. In fact, I likely only like glass a little more than you. It's still at the bottom end of the typing experience spectrum from zero feedback to Topre and IBM at the high end (and further still some ancient oddities that only HaaTa knows).

I just happen to place chiclet boards really low on that spectrum. I dislike them a whole lot! Glass typing doesn't win over them because I prize the (nonexistent) feel, but because it's built in and why bother?

What I'd really like is something nice on my laptop, instead of physically stacking something nice on top of my laptop as I occasionally do! The 12" Retina MacBook has an interesting keyboard, I've liked it in person the few times I've swung by Apple stores since its release. Again, no comparison to buckling spring or any good mechanical, but the comparison that matters is the shite they have in the MacBook Pro now. Soon to be replaced across the line, I hope. As is Apple's usual move.

zslane · 11 Sep 2015, 00:58

I hear ya.

Of course, you're describing yet another reason I'm not a fan of laptops. I don't want to be stuck with a keyboard I can't just detach and get rid of (or replace with something better someday) if I want to.

The keyboard case that my iPad sits in is more than just a vessel for a bad keyboard. It is a rugged piece of iPad protection. It is a very convenient and sturdy screen mount that lets me adjust the viewing angle effortlessly. The attached keyboard is only half of its value, and the fact that I can stack upon it a real keyboard with my beloved sphericals is an added benefit that is only slightly cumbersome in nature.

Muirium · 11 Sep 2015, 01:08

I used to be an ardent fan of the laptop form factor before I got into keyboards, and, perhaps more significantly, before the iPhone made mobile computing something you could fit inside your pocket. The iPad Pro intrigues me, and if I had limitless funds I'd grab one for sure. That stylus… it's the ultimate Wacom tablet now! But the inability to carry it around conveniently in my pocket is trouble, as it is for all iPads. The one thing I'm most likely to get from yesterday's event is the new iPhone Plus.

I have big pockets. But not iPad big!

zslane · 16 Dec 2015, 19:55

It looks like the latest iOS update has "fixed" the USB keyboard support issue. I no longer get the popup alert that says "USB: Device is not supported" every time my iPad wakes itself (to check e-mail or deliver a notification, etc.). I don't need to contemplate Bluetooth-enabled 60%ers anymore!

Muirium · 16 Dec 2015, 20:10

Yeah, I hear they removed several of the annoyances we USB keyboard users were having by, uh, using that USB port addon of theirs. Apple isn't the fastest at doing obvious things, but it's good to see them accepting the desktop usefulness of iOS more these days alongside the iPad Pro.

I still want Bluetooth mechs though. Wires are inherently assymmetric and fiddly, while I'm inherently fussy yet a klutz. No 2.4 GHz data link ever knocked a computer off a table to my knowledge!

zslane · 16 Dec 2015, 21:00

Bluetooth keyboards are nice in terms of being cable-free, that's true. The trade-off is that they need periodic recharging, or worse, battery replacement. I'd like to see someone invent a keyboard that stores power from the kinetic energy of my typing...

One question I have is: what it would take to make a mech keyboard, BT or USB, be able to send iPad-specific commands like the carrying case BT keyboards can? Does that just come down to firmware code, or does the delivery protocol (BT vs. USB) dictate what kinds of keyboard commands can be sent?

Muirium · 17 Dec 2015, 04:23

iPad specific commands like what? The only Bluetooth board I've used with mine is Apple's own desktop Mac keyboard. Nothing too fancy there. Just the mysterious eject key…

I might investigate this with a Bluetooth adapter project I have early in the works. So many boards here. But only one that works on USB!

zslane · 17 Dec 2015, 20:39

I have a Targus iPad case with a builtin BT keyboard. There is a row of special function keys that send commands like: Home (equivalent to the iPad's round home button), search, select all, cut, copy, paste, toggle virtual keyboard, rev, play/pause, fwd, mute, vol-, vol+, summon task catalog, and lock/sleep.

Muirium · 17 Dec 2015, 22:07

Some of those are present in the USB HID spec (which means USB keyboards can send them), off the top of my head Cut, Copy, Paste and the playback and volume controls are all good. A key for showing and hiding the onscreen keyboard is a keyboard combo as I recall unless you have Apple's Eject key, which is somewhat nonstandard. The others though… hmm.

To my knowledge, Bluetooth acts the same way as USB regarding available keys. But Apple might have some jiggery pokery on top of it, that these guys are using. And we may not find so easy.

zslane · 18 Dec 2015, 00:46

It would be nice to be able to map ^A, ^X, ^C, ^V to select all, cut, copy, and paste respectively. And it would be nice to have keyboard hotkey combos for lock/unlock (sleep/wake?) as well as media transport controls. The stock Pok3r firmware has FN+ combos for volume control and cursor movement, but that's it, leaving me to wonder if the missing functions are strictly a limitation of the Pok3r firmware or a limitation of the iOS keyboard protocol over USB (which until very recently wasn't even treated as a supported device type).