Fujitsu / Triumph FKB4700 issue

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klikkyklik

02 Sep 2015, 13:49

Strange... I have three Triumph-branded FKB4700's, and none of them work through a passive USB, active USB (blue cube), nor even directly into a PS/2 port (via AT to PS/2 adapter)! When I plug them in, the lights blink, but then the board goes silent.

I can't imagine that all three boards are bad, considering they all have the exact same behavior- but I'm open to suggestions. I've not yet encountered a situation where a PS/2 port can't provide enough current to operate an older keyboard, but I suppose it could happen?

There are no switches / controls on the keyboard (for XT/AT selection, for instance).

Thoughts?

User avatar
Redmaus
Gotta start somewhere

02 Sep 2015, 14:51

It might just not work. I had a Unitek K-155 and had the exact same problem as did XMIT.

I suggest you just try to convert one to USB.

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seebart
Offtopicthority Instigator

02 Sep 2015, 14:55

Hmm very strange, I own a Sanyo branded FKB4700. I have actually encountered a situation where a PS/2 port could not provide enough current to operate an older keyboard, but not with the FKB4700. Have any of the three FKB4700 ever worked?

http://deskthority.net/photos-f62/fujit ... ilit=sanyo

User avatar
Redmaus
Gotta start somewhere

02 Sep 2015, 14:56

seebart wrote: Hmm very strange, I own a Sanyo branded FKB4700. I have actually encountered a situation where a PS/2 port could not provide enough current to operate an older keyboard, but not with the FKB4700. Have any of the three FKB4700 ever worked?

http://deskthority.net/photos-f62/fujit ... ilit=sanyo
Huh. My fujitsu board works great with a converter and it looks just like yours minus the logo.

User avatar
seebart
Offtopicthority Instigator

02 Sep 2015, 15:00

Well it's impossible to know the condition of such old hardware, even if everything looks fine visually there could still be a defect. Odd chances of having three of the same kind that don't work but sure it's possible.

The one thing that's really cool about the FKB4700 is the factory screw assembly of the plate and the membrane, other than that it's a strange keyboard that I don't like too much. The peerless switch is wierd.
Last edited by seebart on 02 Sep 2015, 15:04, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
klikkyklik

02 Sep 2015, 15:02

seebart wrote: Have any of the three FKB4700 ever worked?
Unknown. The original owner is no longer with us, and only he would have known. ;)

User avatar
Chyros

02 Sep 2015, 15:07

I'm pretty sure I used my FKB4700 with a simple AT-to-PS/2 adapter on my PS/2 port and it worked. I wouldn't think there's not enough current going through a PS/2 port to operate the keyboard, that would surprise me. I think I've had something like that with another keyboard on a USB port once; it didn't always register keystrokes going through an active adapter, but worked fine with PS/2. I can't think of any reason why all three wouldn't work with just a simple adapter though Oo .

There's not a hidden XT/AT switch on the inside, is there? Also, have you tried a universal 5-pin-to-USB converter?

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seebart
Offtopicthority Instigator

02 Sep 2015, 15:08

Well then you either need a real USB conversion or dissasemble one or all and test with a multimeter. Not sure if that's worth it to you. Tried blue cube right?

I don't remember a hidden switch Chyros. Although it's been a while that I looked at my FKB4700.

User avatar
Chyros

02 Sep 2015, 15:20

seebart wrote: I don't remember a hidden switch Chyros. Although it's been a while that I looked at my FKB4700.
I can't rememer one either, but for probably the same reasons as you, it's been a while for me as well xD .

User avatar
klikkyklik

02 Sep 2015, 15:36

Thank you for the responses, gentlemen - but the mystery has been solved.

I refused to believe that all three boards were bad but behaved the same way when plugged in to a PS/2 port (although technically, yes, they could have been). So I dug out an old P1-233 1998-era box with an AT connector - that worked.

So there you have it!

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Redmaus
Gotta start somewhere

02 Sep 2015, 15:38

What does the P1-233 look like?

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seebart
Offtopicthority Instigator

02 Sep 2015, 15:40

Whats a P1-233 1998-era box? You mean a computer with a Pentuim 1? So you're having trouble with your mainboard? The first Pentium processor is from 1993 I believe.
pentium.jpg
pentium.jpg (166.89 KiB) Viewed 4380 times

User avatar
klikkyklik

02 Sep 2015, 15:47

Yes, it was an old computer that I'd kept around (was using as a Linux firewall), and hadn't been fired up in years. Out of curiosity I wanted to see if plugging the keyboards directly into its AT connector would work, and it did.

Unfortunately it doesn't really help my situation much, as I had intended on using the keyboards via USB. But at least it proves that they work. I wonder if a USB Y cable would work?

User avatar
klikkyklik

02 Sep 2015, 15:58

Redmaus wrote: What does the P1-233 look like?
Sporting no case, a 3.5" floppy, and a massive 2.6GB hard drive! Sorry, it's not for sale. :lol:
p1box.jpg
p1box.jpg (418.55 KiB) Viewed 4373 times

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Redmaus
Gotta start somewhere

02 Sep 2015, 15:59

Looks ancient! o.o

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klikkyklik

02 Sep 2015, 16:16

Actually it has a wee bit of fairly uninteresting history. It was purchased by my brother brand new in 1996(?) or close to it; it was originally a 150MHz Pentium 1. Skip ahead a few years and it ends up with a dead motherboard. I refused to let my brother toss it out, so I ended up transplanting a P1-233 mobo into it so it could be assimilated into my Linux cluster. Years later after that was all dismantled, I used it for interfacing to various electronics projects (I remember using avrdude on it in 2006 to program an ATmega8). Ultimately the pipeline of newer machines pushing old ones out relegated it to disuse, but I couldn't throw it out because of the sentimental attachment. This is how hoarding begins.

User avatar
Muirium
µ

02 Sep 2015, 16:43

I used to have machines like that. The sharp insides forever cut me up whenever I delved inside. That drove the sentimentality right out of me!

Here's the thing about keyboards: hook them up to current hardware and they're still just as useful today. They're time travellers! Which is an excellent thing to be in a tech world full of rapid ageing.

User avatar
klikkyklik

02 Sep 2015, 17:12

Well, in an ideal world you can hook them up to current hardware - except in this case! :)

In the name of keyboard science, I put an ammeter inline with the +5VDC line. While it's sitting idle in the BIOS screen, the board is only taking 21mA. Engaging the Num Lock LED took another 2mA; same with the Caps lock. Although, I'm not sure I can put a lot of faith in these measurements, because the current would float around a bit, one time up to a peak of about 86mA. But this is still a far cry from anything substantial current-wise!

I don't get it. What is it about this sucker that would prevent it from working with PS/2 or USB via adapters?

User avatar
klikkyklik

04 Sep 2015, 23:29

Has anyone had any luck plugging these boards into a USB adapter? If so, can you please tell me which one you're using?

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klikkyklik

29 Oct 2015, 19:39

Mystery solved.
Spoiler:
The board cannot be plugged into a running system.
More details here, if you're interested. It's an account of just how far off-base I can get sometimes. But in my defense, I really hadn't experienced that behavior before! https://klikkyklik.wordpress.com/2015/10/29/triumph

Just out of curiosity, I'm wondering if others have experienced this issue with the FKB4700's? Or any other boards for that matter?

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seebart
Offtopicthority Instigator

29 Oct 2015, 19:54

The PS/2 protocol is not "plug and play" capable, no PS/2 keyboard can be plugged into any running system and then used without a restart. Anyone correct me if I'm wrong please.

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klikkyklik

29 Oct 2015, 19:58

My Model M with PS/2 connector works without a hitch, as do others (Dell AT101W's, for instance). None of the other boards I have that have PS/2 or adapt from AT to PS/2 have that issue. That's why it threw me for such a loop! :lol:

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seebart
Offtopicthority Instigator

29 Oct 2015, 20:01

You don't mean adapters right?

The PS/2 interface dates from 1987. So it's a 25 year old interface, predating any plug and play OS.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PS/2_port
Last edited by seebart on 29 Oct 2015, 20:16, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
klikkyklik

29 Oct 2015, 20:03

seebart wrote: You don't mean adapters right?
Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean? All of my non-USB keyboards can be adapted either passively or actively from AT or PS/2 to USB and they work when plugged into running systems. The FKB4700 was my first observed exception to that.

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seebart
Offtopicthority Instigator

29 Oct 2015, 20:08

I'm talking about non-adapted straight PS/2 to port. Trust me the PS/2 protocol is not "plug and play" capable. Look it up online if you don't believe me. Try that, plug and unplug your PS/2 keyboards without and adapter while your computer is running and see if you can keep using it like an USB device.

And yes keyboards connected to an adapter (might depend on the adapter) can be un and replugged on a running system. Sure.
Last edited by seebart on 29 Oct 2015, 20:12, edited 1 time in total.

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klikkyklik

29 Oct 2015, 20:10

Ah, OK! Sorry, I'm quite dense at times. I do believe you - but I'd really like to try it for myself anyway, just to continue this learning experience. I'll give it a shot! Thank you, Seebart!

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seebart
Offtopicthority Instigator

29 Oct 2015, 20:15

No don't try that, it does not work. It's a waste of time.You'll just have to reboot. Might cause your system to freeze. There are different passive / active converters also.

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klikkyklik

29 Oct 2015, 20:16

Concerning PS/2 boards plugged directly into a PS/2 port on a running system, my 1987-era Model M works. Dell AT101W works. Dell QuietKey works. ?

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seebart
Offtopicthority Instigator

29 Oct 2015, 20:18

Really? Then try unplugging and plugging it back several times. See how that works. What kind of computer /mainboard are you using? Also try different PS/2 keyboards after one another.

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klikkyklik

29 Oct 2015, 20:22

Un/plugged a QuietKey a dozen times, no issues. Plugged the AT -> PS/2 adapted FKB4700 in and it caused the BIOS to start beeping. Unplugged it and plugged in the QuietKey again, no problems. Some chips (or firmware) must have been more lenient than others? Stand by on mobo info.

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