Raspberry Pi Zero

Miko

26 Nov 2015, 09:21

The Raspberry Pi Zero has been announced. It should be significantly more CPU Power (ARM11, one core, 1 GHz) than the original Rasperry PI, but without Ethernet.

It is equipped with plenty of IO pins and a USB OTG port. (I'm confused - USB OTG are USB clients than can serve as Hosts, can't they? But the Pi alsways was a host, so does that mean it doubles as a usb client? In that case I could serve as a keyboard controller)


It is announced to cost 5$, significantly less than a teensy. (Maybe they will simply cover their costs with expensive shipping, like the Chip).

I call it: 2016 will be the Year of Linux on the Desktop (in the keyboard). :D
Last edited by Miko on 26 Nov 2015, 17:27, edited 1 time in total.

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scottc

26 Nov 2015, 10:01

Hmm, alright. That's an odd direction for them to take.

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Plasmodium

26 Nov 2015, 10:31

You compare it price-wise to a Teensy - more importantly to me is the fact that it will likely be more easily available in the UK (being made by a UK company)...

andrewjoy

26 Nov 2015, 11:29

That could be interesting.

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Halvar

26 Nov 2015, 11:33

Wow. Watch out Arduino...

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Muirium
µ

26 Nov 2015, 12:05

Anyone making a USB programmable through hole board like this and the Teensy ***with Bluetooth?*** Because that's the next step. The Teensy etc. are all perfectly powerful enough to run or convert a keyboard. Bluetooth is the next generation.

Adafruit's EZKey is not capable of being a controller or a converter, as I understand. I want something that integrates both. And is USB programmable instead of all that evil shit!

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Halvar

26 Nov 2015, 12:19

It exists, but is still too expensive:

http://www.adafruit.com/products/2829

So I guess we're once again waiting for chinese slave labor and lack of respect for IP to save the day...

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Muirium
µ

26 Nov 2015, 12:35

Ooooh… thanks for the link! I wonder if that's the future heart of the µBox right there!

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klikkyklik

26 Nov 2015, 17:35

I've never been much of a Raspberry Pi fanboy, although I can see its attraction. However, with this little guy - I think it's going to take a bit to sink in. $5 is an amazing price tag. At first I thought the C.H.I.P. project ($9 computer off Kickstarter) might be jeopardized, but I'm not sure. The C.H.I.P. has built-in WiFi, but an ESP8266 + Rasp Pi Zero... boom. The C.H.I.P. also has Bluetooth though. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/15 ... escription

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Muirium
µ

26 Nov 2015, 17:49

Seeing as we're talking about it at DT, what matters is how well we can use these things in our keyboard hacks. Raspberry Pi has been off my radar because there's no software for it. The number of people who can make or port code bases (Hasu, HaaTa, Soarer) is very small compared to all of us who are simply users of their code.

But that said, I have been considering learning this stuff myself lately. I'm interested in Bluetooth converters for classic boards. Most of my best kit has heavy cables that don't even play nice with my laptop, let alone an iPad! Bluetooth makes much more sense to me as a user. And I'd like to make a GUI for remapping, layers and macros. Xwhatsit's pointed the way. What I'm after is something for my ADB and (soon) NeXT boards to use, too. In addition to all the AT/PS2 gear I've got.

Just a pie in the sky idea for now. But the hardware pieces are falling into place to make it doable and get me started. While keeping an eye on TMK!

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scottc

26 Nov 2015, 17:50

Muirium wrote: Raspberry Pi has been off my radar because there's no software for it.
Apart from, you know, Linux!

Out-of-context quotes aside, it would be good to see this as a new controller. It seems a bit overkill, though.

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Muirium
µ

26 Nov 2015, 17:53

I've zero interest in running Linux anywhere, let alone inside my keyboard. I like my keyboards timeless. Sticking little computers inside them that suffer from Moore's Law rot seems the opposite of smart.

The hardware that's got me thinking is Ada's Feather Bluefruit that Halvar linked. That's the first combo of USB programmable + Bluetooth + battery controller that I've seen in a single product, and Ada's got a great reputation, too. 30 bucks is a very fair price in my opinion. This could be the one to get me into the scene instead of nagging everyone else who is!

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klikkyklik

26 Nov 2015, 17:59

I -AM- a Linux fanboy, however I certainly wouldn't consider using the Zero for a keyboard controller. Wrong tool for the job.

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XMIT
[ XMIT ]

26 Nov 2015, 20:06

klikkyklik wrote: I -AM- a Linux fanboy, however I certainly wouldn't consider using the Zero for a keyboard controller. Wrong tool for the job.
Right. I want a microcontroller - and no OS - for a keyboard controller so that I can have some hard guarantees about how long operations take in terms of time. I don't want some OS deciding that my keyboard daemon needs to be swapped out of RAM, or holding key strokes to write some log file. ATmegas are great for a reason.

Now, for a Web connected pool controller or something, an Arduino sounds great.

(Happy Thanksgiving, klikkyklik.)

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Muirium
µ

26 Nov 2015, 20:12

Actually, one horrible limit of the Atmega is that ridiculous mid 1970s amount of RAM. I'd like to be able to handle auto detection of keyboard protocol and model, swapping in appropriate user-defined mappings for each one. Could well need more memory than that Ada board I'm otherwise so hot about.

Dang.

Also: anyone tested many old keyboards for how well / if they function at 3.3 volts instead of 5? It's as if these things weren't designed with my exact use specifically in mind!

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stratokaster

26 Nov 2015, 20:22

Muirium wrote: What I'm after is something for my ADB and (soon) NeXT boards to use, too. In addition to all the AT/PS2 gear I've got.
My impression has always been that NeXT used ADB to connect peripherals, am I wrong?

Hak Foo

26 Nov 2015, 20:22

It probably depends if you're planning to do a protocol-converter or a controller-swap converter.

Anything that's just a passive matrix of switches will be fine with 3.3; things that rely on more sophisticated sensing-- capacitive effects, for example, might be thrown by the voltage drop.

Miko

26 Nov 2015, 21:06

The Raspi Zero is definitivly overkill for a controller. What amazes me it that's is cheaper (sigifiantly so) than the Microcontroller that I used for that. The Teensy is expensive as hell. Today I use a Pro Micro clones and a I2C port expander as keyboard controller. That still costs about 3.5€ in chips alone. And now here comes a thing that is way, way, way more powerfull, and the pricetag is simply amazing.

Thats like a racecar cheaper than a VW Golf/Polo. You might not need the race-car, and it isn't practical for grocery shopping, but the price point is amazing on it's own.
Last edited by Miko on 26 Nov 2015, 21:13, edited 3 times in total.

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scottc

26 Nov 2015, 21:09

The Atmel market is such a racket. The prices for 32u4s is just insane. I, for one, welcome our new ARM overlords!

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Muirium
µ

26 Nov 2015, 21:38

If only Ada had something with the holy Trinity I said above, powered by arm instead. A few megs of memory is much easier to work inside than effing k!

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flabbergast

26 Nov 2015, 21:59

Actually the Nordic chips Adafruit uses for bluetooth are ARMs themselves (256kB flash), it's just that there's no open source firmware and/or stack for *those* (adafruit have developed theirs in-house, but they're not sharing it).

But there are breakout Nordic boards available, but I have a feeling it will take some time until some semi-professional ARM programmer will make some open source libraries that could be used for keyboards...

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Muirium
µ

26 Nov 2015, 22:07

Yeah, I get the creeping feeling that there's as much platform incompatibility intrigue in this space as all the complexity I've soaked in regarding keyboards themselves, at least. That exercise took me years, and no code was involved. This stuff looks like a real chore. Goddamnit!

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bhtooefr

26 Nov 2015, 22:57

One problem with Bluetooth specifically is regulations on RF devices - regulatory bodies frown on the RF behavior being alterable on devices that are marketed to consumers.

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flabbergast

26 Nov 2015, 23:15

True. But the breakout boards are already there - these are generally classified and sold as "for development purposes only". Just like teensies, arduinos, etc...

It's a similar kind of deal as with regular USB keyboards - no big company is actually selling a (fully) programmable keyboard, because that would be a certification (and customer support) nightmare. That's not stopping enthusiasts from doing things themselves.

pcaro

27 Nov 2015, 00:13

Overkill? of course. And tensies are overpriced! Now, I can imagine a driver in a high level language driver (python for example) over a RTOS and a new word of features: Graphic Keyboard configuration tool totaly OS independent (just plug the keyboard to your monitor), touch typing coursers, sound helps, keyboard statistics, Infinity layers and programability, LCD on the keyboard showing layers, wpm, even active layout, password holder, usb storage, an a large large etc. Computer power for all you wish...

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Halvar

27 Nov 2015, 10:20

It can't be the Atmel chip prices that are high, the Micro Pro is now down to 2€ from China. Seems more like pijrc is just not lowering their price for the Teensy.

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gogusrl

27 Nov 2015, 10:27

Where did you find 2 Eur pro micro ? I want some.

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Halvar

27 Nov 2015, 11:28


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jou

27 Nov 2015, 12:06

flabbergast wrote: Actually the Nordic chips Adafruit uses for bluetooth are ARMs themselves (256kB flash), it's just that there's no open source firmware and/or stack for *those* (adafruit have developed theirs in-house, but they're not sharing it).

But there are breakout Nordic boards available, but I have a feeling it will take some time until some semi-professional ARM programmer will make some open source libraries that could be used for keyboards...
I've ordered some nRF51822 boards and a programmer to play around with ARM and Bluetooth. The Nordic chips does need a proprietary binary blob (which is freely downloadable) for the Bluetooth stack but it's fully compatible with GCC.

n__dles

27 Nov 2015, 12:50

stratokaster wrote: My impression has always been that NeXT used ADB to connect peripherals, am I wrong?
Non ADB NeXT kbs and mice exist. But there's also non ADB Apple kbs & mice...

I believe the ADB-less NeXT stuff pre-dates ADB's invention.

Did NeXT make non ADB peripherals when Apple had switched to ADB?? That I don't know :/

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