Sperry Unisys, what language do you speak?

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XMIT
[ XMIT ]

02 Mar 2015, 13:18

Does anyone know what language/protocol a Sperry Unisys keyboard might speak?

This is a terminal keyboard with a DIN-9 female connector at the end of its cable:
DSC_3583.jpg
DSC_3583.jpg (39.81 KiB) Viewed 3459 times
Inspecting the wires, I get this:

Code: Select all

\ 5 4 3 2 1 /
 \ 9 8 7 6 /

1 - Black
2 - Blue
3 - No Connection
4 - Red
5 - Black
6 - Black
7 - Green
8 - White
9 - Black
I have not yet traced these to pins on the board or its 8048 microcontroller. That is the next step. But a quick look at kbdbabel.org reveals that this does not align to any of the DIN-9 connectors that they post.

Any ideas?

For the Televideo Model 970 keyboard I have here I was able to find a "Theory of Operation" document that even has a keyboard schematic! No such luck here.

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Muirium
µ

02 Mar 2015, 13:43

Always worth a look:

http://www.kbdbabel.org/conn/

But I don't see it.

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chzel

02 Mar 2015, 15:24

My instinct tells me Red is Vcc, Black is Gnd, and the rest Rx, Tx and ?idk?

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XMIT
[ XMIT ]

02 Mar 2015, 15:47

My guess is that we have Rx, Tx, and clock. That depends on how the lock LED is implemented. If the terminal tells the keyboard to light the LED then it makes sense to have Rx (from the keyboard's perspective). Otherwise, I don't know.

Hopefully I'll get a chance to trace it out tonight to see what happens!

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elecplus

02 Mar 2015, 16:25

Bring it back to the shop and plug in into the terminal, will that help?

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XMIT
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02 Mar 2015, 16:37

elecplus wrote: Bring it back to the shop and plug in into the terminal, will that help?
It might. That's not a bad idea. In fact it would be ideal. :lol:

Though before I do that I would need to get set up with an oscilloscope. A coworker suggested this:

http://www.gabotronics.com/oscilloscope ... oscope.htm

It has two analog channel and its own tiny screen in a handheld unit. Plus it connects over USB to most computers for further analysis.

Given the pinout I'd really like to get something with four channels. Recommendations welcome. :)

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chzel

02 Mar 2015, 16:41

I believe a logic analyzer would be ideal. Something like this, after you check the levels and scale accordingly of course!

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XMIT
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02 Mar 2015, 16:51

chzel wrote: I believe a logic analyzer would be ideal. Something like this, after you check the levels and scale accordingly of course!
Right. My coworker liked the fact that the aforementioned Gabotronics "Xminilab Portable" offering could also function as an 8 channel logic analyzer and has a little screen. So it sounds like I have one of those in my future.

For really old stuff, I can't always be sure that it follows 5V TTL logic levels so I want something that can also function as an analog scope. Case in point, the Televideo keyboard I have uses +12V power. The scope I mentioned has -14V to +20V levels. Sure I can build a resistor divider as you propose.

The same coworker also recommends Saleae logic analyzers. The Logic 8, in particular, is the one I've seen. I've borrowed it and it's really neat - comes in a little case with tiny little clip cables and everything.

https://www.saleae.com/

We're Linux people and my usual laptop is an OSX machine so cross platform support is critical for us.

From a quick glance the IkaLogic Scanalogic-2 looks a lot like the Saleae offering. But sadly I only see a "ScanaStudio Logic Analyzer software" download for Windows. That's a dealbreaker for me. Even with Wine and VMs I could get it to work but I want this sort of stuff to run natively!

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Muirium
µ

02 Mar 2015, 16:56

Ooh, very neat. Can't say I would necessarily use one effectively, being far from well versed in matters lecktrick, but that looks a fine tool to me.

Uh, hmm, is there any way to say that without sounding like that?

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chzel

02 Mar 2015, 16:58

You Linux people...The Saleae analyzers seem really nice and well built! Is their software good?

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XMIT
[ XMIT ]

02 Mar 2015, 17:08

chzel wrote: You Linux people...
I'm in a terminal most of the day so a good keyboard is a must! :P
chzel wrote: The Saleae analyzers seem really nice and well built! Is their software good?
I was very pleased with it when I used it, yes. The folks who make it are in San Francisco. It's a small shop but they do a good job.

For important stuff at the office we have professional grade, huge, super expensive Tektronix oscilloscopes and what not that come with regular calibrations and support contracts. In comparison these things are toys. But for most hobby work something like this is more than enough. Often what we'll do is to use a tool like this to find some defect and then hand it off for further investigation.

I'm more accustomed to something that looks like this:
41eWr-iVIsL._SX425_.jpg
41eWr-iVIsL._SX425_.jpg (17.44 KiB) Viewed 3378 times
http://www.amazon.com/Rigol-DS1102E-Osc ... 001VKCJ0M/

, but I've been converted.

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elecplus

02 Mar 2015, 17:14

There is an old oscope, with leads, here. Have not used it in years, but it worked, last I checked. It is at least 20 years old :-)

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Halvar

02 Mar 2015, 17:45

For those who prefer simple and cheap (and slow), there are logic analyser programs for microcontrollers, too.

For example Soarer wrote a simple one running on a teensy, but you would have to port the PC client code to LINUX ...

http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/simp ... t4567.html

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XMIT
[ XMIT ]

02 Mar 2015, 18:04

Visual Studio. :cry:

I'd love to chat with Soarer if he ever re-joins the forum. Here's hoping.

pcaro

18 Jul 2015, 15:20

Any progress on this? I am really falling in love with KEYPOCALIPSE sperry UTS 400 keyboards (that sphericals!) but I only collect a keyboard if I can use it. Still looking for my ideal keyboard.

andrewjoy

18 Jul 2015, 15:36

XMIT wrote:
elecplus wrote: Bring it back to the shop and plug in into the terminal, will that help?
It might. That's not a bad idea. In fact it would be ideal. :lol:

Though before I do that I would need to get set up with an oscilloscope. A coworker suggested this:

http://www.gabotronics.com/oscilloscope ... oscope.htm

It has two analog channel and its own tiny screen in a handheld unit. Plus it connects over USB to most computers for further analysis.

Given the pinout I'd really like to get something with four channels. Recommendations welcome. :)
Portable scopes are pretty useless at least that type are, if you have the money get a real 2 channel scope if not a PC based USB one would be better

You could always pick yourself up a cheap analogue 20mhtz scope as well people practically give them away, i got mine thrown in for free when buying a second hand UPS ( an awesome 2200va beast)

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XMIT
[ XMIT ]

18 Jul 2015, 18:01

Yeah. I think a logic analyzer is sufficient for this one. I have two Saleae knockoffs that work beautifully. I just need to find the time to reverse engineer the pinout, find power, hook it up to the analyzer and start seeing what it outputs. Fortunately I have one of these that has ITW/Cortron magnetic valve switches so I don't need to sorry about degfraded foam first.

But first I need to finish the NCR board, resolder some NEC switches and ship about ten orders. Patience please.

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XMIT
[ XMIT ]

18 Jul 2015, 18:01

Oh - I do have a two channel USB analog scope en route too. I really hope I don't need it for this board.

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