Honeywell VIP 7201 terminal - I think hall effect?

[XMIT]

I picked up a Honeywell VIP 7201 terminal. Most of the photos I've seen online of this terminal have a black keyboard with some unknown switch - any ideas what it might be?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/200914469940

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I believe this is the same type of keyboard as http://www.museodelcomputer.org/index.p ... Fotografie but there are no photos of a particular switch.

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(from museodelcomputer.org)

It also looks like there is another variant of this same terminal with a different keyboard - a white keyboard. I *think* this one is Hall Effect. I hope so since I bought it. We'll see in about a week. If nothing else I'm hoping to get a nice terminal out of it.
https://www.nriparts.com/miscellaneous/ ... wkeyboard/

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[Nuum]

Don't Hall effect switches have four contacts? I ca only see two contacts per switch.

[XMIT]

Correct. The top black keyboard is almost certainly *not* hall effect. The bottom white keyboard almost certainly appears to be hall effect. The switches look identical to some others on http://deskthority.net/wiki/Honeywell_Hall_Effect, for example:

[XMIT]

Keyboard and terminal arrived today. The keyboard is definitely Hall Effect. It is also the wrong keyboard for a Honeywell VIP 7201! Maybe Cindy has one that works.

The keyboard connector is an RJ10. That could be anything! Anything at all! Power ground clock and data for sure, but in any order, and 5V or 12V!

[Firebolt1914]

Nice find! Are you going to try to convert it to USB?

[XMIT]

Of course I am! But I was really hoping to get a working terminal out of it. The keyboard is the white one in the bottom four pictures of the original post.

EDIT: Terminal powers on just fine, it just doesn't speak the keyboard's language.

I can't really find any documentation anywhere on the Honeywell VIP 7201 terminals apart from a user guide on bitsavers. A repair manual is what I need. Maybe it's time to become friendly with some folks on VCF or something like that.

[snuci]

Sorry for digging up this thread but I just recently found a Honeywell VIP 7201 on eBay and just bought it. This one has the original keyboard so, XMIT, if you need any info, I can try to help. Your pictures of the black keyboard look similar to my Lear Siegler ADM22 keyboard but it has a different interface. That keyboard is also made by Teco and has cream AKCC Alps key switches. I'll see what this comes with when it arrives but I'm fairly certain Honey cloned the Lear Siegler or someone OEMed it to the other. It is a fantastic keyboard but it was not hall effect. You can see the ADM22 here: photos-f62/lear-siegler-adm22-terminal-t12190.html

[XMIT]

Oh sad. I still have the (not correct) keyboard but got rid of the terminal, sorry.

[snuci]

Xmit,

Now I know why you wanted the original keyboard...

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[jacobolus]

You can tell it’s Alps from the keycap legends (and from the pin locations on the PCB).

[Muirium]

XMIT: if you do get anywhere with converting these Honeywell Hall Effect keyboards, you will be like Xwhatsit: the champion of a whole realm. He's the king of beam. Now, are you anywhere near Honeywell's crown?

[snuci]

So nobody has converted a Honeywell Hall Effect keyboard to work with a PC? This sounds like a challenge.

[Muirium]

As far as I know, Honeywell terminal keyboards do indeed remain to be converted. I have one too. Found it in 2013, but still haven't typed a single character.

From what I remember, there is a mysterious protocol converter out there specifically for the Space Cadet Keyboard, which is related to these Honeywells, but not the same. These fellas want weird voltages and may be highly constrained in rollover, too. But their PCBs are so nice I'd never want to tear one down to replace the original logic.

[XMIT]

Pretty close. I need to sit down and understand TMK but once I do I'll have a working 1KRO controller for existing PCBs in most cases. Check the "Converting my Wang" thread for a big update. The switches themselves are kind of a pain to interface and in many cases the hardware imposed some limitations.

Plus all these boards are pretty different. Some have controllers, some don't. Each will be a special case unfortunately.

But I do hope that 2016 will be the year of the Hall effect keyboard.

[Muirium]

Hopefully!

I bought a new camera while I was away — only just returned home to it, I expected to buy it in America but Canon's pricing made it cheaper back home, bizarrely, so here it is — and 2016 will hopefully also be the year of better photography from me. Might even start putting it in the wiki if I can get my head around all that.

Tell me if you need any pics.

[Firebolt1914]

So nobody has converted a Honeywell Hall Effect keyboard to work with a PC? This sounds like a challenge.

HaaTa has converted a Hall Effect numpad.

[Muirium]

Nah, he built it from scratch. A fixed 1 switch: 1 pin connection to the controller, without a matrix, I think I've heard it described. Several people bought them, way back.

[XMIT]

So nobody has converted a Honeywell Hall Effect keyboard to work with a PC? This sounds like a challenge.

HaaTa has converted a Hall Effect numpad.

My understanding is that he did this as a *protocol* conversion, and was not sensing the matrix directly.

See:
https://github.com/kiibohd/controller/b ... can_loop.c

EDIT: This was for a full Micro Switch 8304 keyboard, not a numpad.


Reading data in from a serial line is easy enough when you have a serial line that you can read. We don't, for the Wang board.

The converter approach may work well for some Hall boards but it won't work for all of them, particularly the oldest ones which were made in a time when it was not feasible to put a controller in a keyboard for even a very expensive system. My work is to scan the matrix directly which is more fundamental, more challenging, and more correct.

As Muirium said earlier a replacement PCB would solve some problems but I want a drop in replacement for existing users. Once I get direct matrix sense working (easier to write that code) I may implement a controller/converter that plugs in directly to the keyboard's existing cable instead of requiring extensive desoldering, rework, and cutting traces (as my current implementation will).

[XMIT]

Nah, he built it from scratch. A fixed 1 switch: 1 pin connection to the controller, without a matrix, I think I've heard it described. Several people bought them, way back.

I'd love to see a link if you can find one.

[snuci]

@XMIT,

If you can tell me what you are using for hardware and software, I will try to replicate and maybe I can help. I have a few Hall effect Micro Switch keyboards and I'd certainly like to get [url-http://vintagecomputer.ca/vintage-micro ... -keyboard/]this one from 1974[/url] going. I also have this Univac board but I'm sure that would be almost impossible.

Now I do have this home-made terminal that incorporates a Micro Switch keyboard that should work serially but I have not been able to get it to work.

I could provide more test cases for you.

[XMIT]

snuci - a good background for reading is the Wang conversion thread:

workshop-f7/converting-my-wang-t12379.html

There is a lot there, and some of it is somewhat heavy and/or poorly worded, but that's the gist of my current progress.

I'm not sure how you can help. The best thing would be to look through all of your Hall boards, make a note of what different switch types you have, desolder one of each type, and, using an oscilloscope, start to report on what the signaling protocol is for each type code printed on the switch. (One single pulse low? Holding low for the duration of a key press? Something else?)

Since my method is general and works at the matrix sensing level it will work for all of the keyboards you have provided (albeit with some tweaking).

When the time comes and I've finished the Wang board I'll have some much more specific questions for you that I'll need in order to "port" the controller to your board.

I have, off the top of my head, these additional Micro Switch Hall effect boards:
- Burroughs terminal;
- TI 914 terminal;
- Delta Data Systems board in metal case;
- Honeywell terminal board mentioned in this thread;
- a chassis only Hall effect board with non sculpted keys;
- a chassis only Hall effect board with sculpted keys;
- the same Univac board that you mentioned earlier.

I may have one more; I can't recall. When the time comes I may even start selling some USB converted boards. Wouldn't that be something?