Showerthoughts about keyboards

[sphinx]

1. All keyboards are mechanical

2. If not all keyboards are mechanical, and topre switches are non-contact, why are topre keyboards considered mechanical keyboards?

/discuss

[Muirium]

[Khers]

Feeling of oneness with cup rubber, that's why!

[Muirium]

Mechanical is a dumb name. (I've complained about this so many times before.) Whatever we seek in keyboards, Topre is one of its peaks. Along with IBM's various springs, and the other classics.

Besides, nowadays "mechanical" = Cherry MX. And increasingly just its similarly crappy clones.

[Sigmoid]

Well if we look at it that way, the only non-mechanical keyboards are touch sensor boards and virtual keyboards on your iPhone / Android.

If we define mechanical as "metal contact switch", then it isn't.
If we define mechanical as "discrete switch", then it isn't.
If we define mechanical as "is not rubber dome", then it isn't.

From what I understand, the widest definition of a mechanical keyswitch is one where tactile feedback and actuation happens via moving parts (springs, sliders, rockers, reeds, etc.) - this way the (otherwise membrane) Model Ms are mechanical too.

Even in this very wide definition, Topre isn't mechanical at all. It's single-assembly capsense rubber dome. If Topre is mechanical, then so are Alps rubber dome slider switches.

I think it's valid to call Topre a "premium" switch, but it's not mechanical at all in the way a Cherry MX or (discrete switch) Alps is, or even in the way an IBM Model M is. That's not a statement of quality, just a statement of cold fact.

[Muirium]

I remember someone trying to claim that Model F wasn't even mechanical. (No contacts! Capsense just like Topre!) Come up to Edinburgh so I can clock you on the head with one, whoever you are. You'd much rather I used a flimsy Das.

[chzel]

I remember someone trying to claim that Model F wasn't even mechanical. (No contacts! Capsense just like Topre!) Come up to Edinburgh so I can clock you on the head with one, whoever you are. You'd much rather I used a flimsy Das.

It's not!
I am coming to Edinburgh for beating, under the condition that you use the Kishy and I get to keep it.
I'll be a happy comatose man!

In all seriousness, "mechanical" is way too vague.

Also, in classic DT off-topicness...my AT arrived today! In all it's filthiness, and fully working! I think I'll love it!

[Muirium]

Congrats! The AT is an excellent board. And as mechanical as Babbage's arithmetic engine!

[Khers]

I also want an AT! Or any Model F that isn't huge or have a stupid XT-layout for that matter...

Back on topic: I agree with Mu, mechanical keyboard is just a term, often used (in a dumbed down fashion) by people to claim that their keyboard is superior to something else because it's mechanical.

Whether Topre is mechanical or not is besides the point really, it's a good quality switch that some like and some dislike. Much like different buckling springs, Cherries, Alps and others.

[Sigmoid]

I also want an AT! Or any Model F that isn't huge or have a stupid XT-layout for that matter...

Well the XT layout is weird, and the XT pcb isn't moddable at all, but you can get used to it quick.

[jou]

I think not-bottoming-out-for-keypress is a more precise adjective. But that is not marketable.

[SL89]

I realized the other day I type with 6 fingers instead of 10.

[rsbseb]

And another thing, why are Cherry profiled caps not referred to as OEM? They are an OEM profile aren't they?

Oops I think I just stepped into a big pile of something not to pleasant. Excuse me while I go clean up and gather my thoughts, sorry for the interruption.....

[Khers]

I also want an AT! Or any Model F that isn't huge or have a stupid XT-layout for that matter...

Well the XT layout is weird, and the XT pcb isn't moddable at all, but you can get used to it quick.

I tried, for a bit, on my bigfoot but I just couldn't use it properly. It's a shame really, since the switches are sublime!

[chzel]

And another thing, why are Cherry profiled caps not referred to as OEM? They are an OEM profile aren't they?

OEM are taller than Cherry, and DCS is somewhere in-between but more towards Cherry profile.

[rsbseb]

And another thing, why are Cherry profiled caps not referred to as OEM? They are an OEM profile aren't they?

OEM are taller than Cherry, and DCS is somewhere in-between but more towards Cherry profile.

Yes,Yes I know. I have key caps from several keyboards and as many different profiles, Most all are "OEM" of one flavor or another.... Just like Cherry. Not complaining, I just think it's interesting that there is "Cherry", and every thing else is lumped together in spite of their various differences. It's just a curios set of semantics within the keyboard community like what the meaning of "Mechanical" is.

In the end it really doesn't matter as long as we all understand what is meant by the reference. From a technical view the term "OEM profile" does not appear to be specifically defined (technically), "Cherry profile" is. The semantics would indicate precedent or preference to the Cherry Profile. I think that the same is true of the use of the word "Mechanical" within the community it just shows a precedent or preference to what would probably be more accurately referred to as "tactile" or some other descriptive term considering how it's typically used to primarily describe the experience of using the keyboard.

In my opinion it probably isn't worth it to get hung up on the technicality of "Mechanical" or "OEM" for general discussion. The semantics of it all are very interesting to me though. I enjoy hearing how people from different areas refer to devices to control the volume on their T.V. or how they refer to a sugary-carbonated beverages.

[jou]

I realized the other day I type with 6 fingers instead of 10.

With a split keyboard you realize this in a hard way. Then you know that hitting "Y" with the left hand is wrong.

[Muirium]

I've been learning that with the Matias Ergo Pro. Only my error is habitually pressing B from the right!

[Findecanor]

I think not-bottoming-out-for-keypress is a more precise adjective. But that is not marketable.

Yess...

I think that the word "mechanical" in the community is more associated with certain properties in how the keys feel and operate than how the internal mechanisms are designed. Never mind that there are discrete metal-contact switch modules with coiled springs and leaf springs in them that have been used for computer keyboards but don't feel or operate at all like Model M, Cherry MX or Topre.
Sure... some people use the term "semi-mechanical" for some of those switches.

[Muirium]

Semi mechanical keyboard enthusiasts!

[iAmAhab]

The rule of thumb is that as long as the keyboard is operated with levers and ropes it's mechanical.

[Muirium]

But wires and solenoids? Semi mechanical!

[seebart]

Right I was shocked when I got my XT, but I got used to it fairly quick. The layout can have it's advantages too even though it was not designed for this day and age.

[Spikebolt]

IBM Model M has a rubber sheet underneath the buckling springs. Is it considered a rubber dome?

Either way it doesn't really matter. Even some rubber domes without springs are good, even if only for a limited ammount of time

[002]

I think a Model M is membrane, not domes.

[Sigmoid]

I think a Model M is membrane, not domes.

Yep. It's a flat membrane, no rubber there. I think the confusion might come from the fact that Model F's have discrete barrels, which are pressed to the PCB with a foam mat. I don't know if any Model M's were made with a metal plate and separate barrels...