deskthority

seebart wrote: ↑

Nuum wrote: ↑I just realized, that the LED badge is in German. What a weird ANSI-ISO mix!

I just realized I had a major blackout whilst looking at this yesterday! Square label (badge) industrial !! That's $$$ Chyros. Too bad the sticker is missing. No sticker on the plate either?

Nope, no stickers, stamps, timewheels or anything. The controller chip isn't telling me much either.

Apparently only part number 1388032 has this black square badge so I guess we got the model number down. Probably from 85-86 then, too. How it ended up as ANSISO, I don't know. The printing of the legend on the enter key looks different from that of all the other keys though, so it might be from a different board. But it's got the stabilisers in the correct barrels for an ANSI layout and it's got the ANSI left shift. But then it's got the UK layout "2" and "@' " key. And German lock light legends. And what appears to be terminal insert, delete, and Caps Lock keys. What la fuckque is going on.

Well 1388032 is very early in the world of Model M. I know nothing about the industrials, but we do have users here that do. I know that much.

This is a really cool board!!! Did you say that it was missing the sticker on the back? While that's a shame, something really cool about these is that they have TONS of things that help you identify when they were made.

Looking at your pictures, I say this board is from late '85 to mid '86. If I had to guess an approximate date of manufacture, I'd place it from December 1985 - June 1986. Here are the breadcrumbs your board has left us:

Controller. This is a 1st generation controller board. This controller's signature trait is the clear mandolin crystal oscillator. This controller was replaced by mid-'86 with a different model that used a different oscillator. The date codes on most the chips are from 1984-- which makes me say this board could be from the first batch of Industrial PC boards they made in December 1985 (I have one of these boards). Specifically, find this and report back what it has, it's the date the PCB board was made (not necessarily assembled!)



Back plate. The gold colored back plates were used in the earliest runs. These were the thickest and heaviest back places that would ever be used. By '87 these would hardly be seen anymore, replaced with silver colored plates. Over many years these got thinner and lighter.

Led cable. The yellow wires were used up until sometime in '88. They were replaced with a thin ribbon. I like the yellow wires best, they don't corrode.

Stabilizers. Your pictures don't show what kind of stabilizers are used for the wide keys. I bet your board has metal stabilizers instead of the plastic sliders. Look at the big + key on your numpad. It should have a big metal stabilizer showing underneath, if you look down under it's right side.

Again, of course, a person can only estimate here. Often you can find newer boards that appear to have been made with old spare parts they had laying around! However the thing about yours that I think locks it in to the first-half of '86 is the controller. That is a gen-1 controller board. By June '86 all the M's I've seen had moved on to the newer controllers that used the metal oscillator chip instead of the clear one.

You'll see this matches your pics:
http://www.clickeykeyboards.com/model-m ... m-1390120/

This is a nice comparison of later controllers, but doesn't include the early '86 ones:
http://www.clickeykeyboards.com/model-m ... 1987-1999/

bitslasher wrote: ↑[great amounts of awesomeness]

Really cool man, thanks for sharing your knowledge on the subject!! I'll make a picture of the controller PCB as soon as I get back home (which will be a few weeks xD) . So my board has the first gen controller AND plate, then? My grey-badge M from April '87 also has the thick rainbow plate, it's the one I bolt-modded (at the moment I'm temp-using those bolt-modded internals with the caps and case of the industrial board - still hugely prefer ISO to ANSI, and num +, F11 and F12 don't work properly).

It also has metal stabilisers, but to be fair, none of my Ms have stabilisers made from anything but metal Oo . Finally, why do you suppose the yellow wires don't corrode? Different amalgam maybe? What's a mandolin oscillator btw? xD

bitslasher wrote: ↑... the clear mandolin crystal oscillator.

Ugh, don't call it that!

(his name was Monedas on DT by the way. Mandolin is his GH handle)

Halvar wrote: ↑

bitslasher wrote: ↑ (his name was Monedas on DT by the way. Mandolin is his GH handle)

Say what you want, Mandolin (aka Monedas) is a great miniature sculptor.

What does he have to do with the oscillator? xD

Monedas was a raving lunatic who tried to rip off people with his eccentric, misleading sales. He banged on about the quartz crystal oscillator in some keyboard or another that he happened to want to sell. Supposedly it made the thing ten or more times valuable. You can guess who called him on his horseshit! But Monedas was up for a fight. Search the forum for his name if you want to see some epic bruisers. He gave up eventually and moved on, but for a long while he was a frequent source of fireworks.

Good thing this Monedas fella was around and about before my active time here. Sounds like a real crowd pleaser.

You haven't really ever seen angry chocolate, my friend.

Those were the days…

Muirium wrote: ↑You haven't really ever seen angry chocolate, my friend.

Those were the days…

I'm OK with that. Grumpy chocolate is entertaining enough for me.

seebart wrote: ↑

Muirium wrote: ↑You haven't really ever seen angry chocolate, my friend.

Those were the days…

I'm OK with that. Grumpy chocolate is entertaining enough for me.

Getting back to topic - today is Friday

When I lived in the us of a I learned the common short: TGIF.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thank_God_It's_Friday

But why bring GOD into this right?

I agree, which is why I prefer TFIF .

Is the Frei in Freitag for "free" or is it just another reference to a Viking deity, like here? Not that you'd ever see me dare speak a word against mighty Freya, blessed be her name!

Good question, according to Wikipedia the ancient Germans got it from the old Romans and named it after the goddess Venus but substituted with their goddess Freya. I guess that's how they handled that back in the day.

Crazy fact: the weekday friday is part of the ISO 8601 norm.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woche#Z.C ... h_ISO_8601

Friday is indeed good , not only is every Friday a 1/2 day for me in work, but my new macbook pro with retina display and the thunderbolt 2 dock arrived last Friday

Its only the 13 inch model with 8gig of ram but still its has that nuts PCI-e SSD in it and the loverly display. Set it to the lowest size possible 1680x1050 space on a 13 inch display, its a little small but better than you normally get out of a modern laptop with there shitty low res displays. Give my an older 1280x1024 laptop over all this 1280x800 shit people make nowadays.

@CHRYOS, Very, very nice early model M. I agree that it definitely looks like from early 1986 or perhaps even late 1985. Industrial color of the case and the German key caps make it particularly unique.

XMIT contacted me yesterday and reminded me to post photos of the August 1985 model M keyboard that I have had in my collection.



Here are some quick shots of the earliest model M keyboard that I have in my collection.

http://www.clickeykeyboards.com/model-m ... years-old/

some raw notes
- Similar case to 1390131 model M , but weight is different and plastic composition might also be different and color is Black. Not the same plastic or color of later IBM 13H6705.
- Has cut-outs in upper right hand corner for IBM logo and on rear for IBM certificate of date of production.. but both IBM logo and IBM certificate were never installed.
- Date imprinted on inside of case that says August 15 1985. Date imprinted on controller that correlated with 1985.
- Removable key stems and key legends similar to IBM WheelWriter and IBM 1390120's and 1390131's from 1985-1986
- Rear metal plate has the "golden" shiny steel look commonly found on early 1390120's and 1390131's and some very early 1391401's
- Has 4.00Mhz oscillator and fabric sticker with 1386800 that is covering ROM chip
- Yellow solid-core copper wire from keyboard controller to lock LEDs

Vast majority of the parts are interchangeable and would fit any model M keyboard from 1985-1999.

Note: Keyboard is natively PC compatible and does not need cable replacement or controller conversion to hook up to modern home PC running Windows via ps/2 or with ps/2 to USB converter.

I really need to setup my proper photo and lighting rig and take the time to do some proper measurements and a well-researched write-up for such an early keyboard.. For months, I have wanted to take a couple days to borrow a macro lens and ring light to do it properly.. but past few months have been busy with lots of day-to-day inquiries about model M parts, restoration advice, and keyboard sales that it's easy to just let the keyboard sit behind glass in the archival case to keep the dust off.

Although, today is August 2015 so perhaps it is fitting that this is the first-draft of documenting a 30-year-old model M keyboard and thanks to XMIT for reminding me about sharing photos with the community.

If anyone has any questions or wants specific photos, let me know so that I can include it the research write-up.

Chyros wrote: ↑

bitslasher wrote: ↑[great amounts of awesomeness]

Really cool man, thanks for sharing your knowledge on the subject!! I'll make a picture of the controller PCB as soon as I get back home (which will be a few weeks xD) . So my board has the first gen controller AND plate, then? My grey-badge M from April '87 also has the thick rainbow plate, it's the one I bolt-modded (at the moment I'm temp-using those bolt-modded internals with the caps and case of the industrial board - still hugely prefer ISO to ANSI, and num +, F11 and F12 don't work properly).

It also has metal stabilisers, but to be fair, none of my Ms have stabilisers made from anything but metal Oo . Finally, why do you suppose the yellow wires don't corrode? Different amalgam maybe? What's a mandolin oscillator btw? xD

Just looked at the pictures again , ( very cool by the way) and noticed that the controller IC looks like a ceramic package. I don't know why they would bother , usually the reason for putting a DIP IC in a ceramic package like that is due to power draw or you are using it in some sort of military kit where they want everything in ceramic packages, no plastic anywhere and more conformal coating that you can imagine.

clickykeyboards wrote: ↑Here are some quick shots of the earliest model M keyboard that I have in my collection.

Woooo cool stuff . Your controller chip has the exact same sticker on it as mine, btw .

double post

I was able to buy those beauties very cheap, when he was doing them for fun. He is a dental student now.

double post

XMIT wrote: ↑

Chyros wrote: ↑Also WHAT is that thing that says "4.00 MHZ" on it? Oo

Quartz crystal oscillator, provides timing for the microcontroller on the board.

mandolin crystal identified

I think I have 2 of them now. AFAIK they were only used in late 1985 - early '86. which is what I would expect from a 1388032. If it had the label it would be worth quite a bit, especially in that condition.

Now that I'm back from holiday, here is the promised controller date shot: it's from late '84, apparently.

Oh wow, just saw your reply here... That date makes that guy a very very very early model!

I've seen two old boards that folks have labeled "prototype":

• clickykeyboards: http://www.clickeykeyboards.com/model-m ... years-old/
• eTwentyNine: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=39 ... #msg914320

They both are black and unusual. The PCB date of etwentynine's match yours -- 8449. eTwentyNine's TI chips also has the same date codes -- 8444. I don't know the PCB date of clickykeyboards, but his TI chips date 8441 (3 weeks older).

So I think your board is almost as old as clickykeyboards "prototype" board, and exactly the same age as eTwentyNine's.

To relate, My 1388032 (dated Dec 17 1985 on back, week 51) has a controller sticker date of 5085, with TI chips dated 8527. These are much much newer than yours, eTwentyNine's, or clickykeyboards, and my board is one of the oldest "known" industrial 1388032 models, with serial #5937.

Your's appears to be another example of a board made with extremely early dated parts, but looking much more production-grade. It seems all yours is missing is the sticker on the back (like the other "prototype" boards). I'd be taking a leap to suggest your board is "prototype" or whatever, but it is incontrovertible that your board has a controller with parts that match the exact date of the two known early "prototype" boards.

So congratulations, you've found a unicorn!

I didn't know there were no labels on prototypes Oo . That'd make sense though because there isn't even a trace of where a sticker used to be. It might even explain why random keycaps were thrown on it. Awesome!

clickykeyboards wrote: ↑@CHRYOS, Very, very nice early model M. I agree that it definitely looks like from early 1986 or perhaps even late 1985. Industrial color of the case and the German key caps make it particularly unique.

XMIT contacted me yesterday and reminded me to post photos of the August 1985 model M keyboard that I have had in my collection.

Can you tell me exactly where on the case you have a datestamp (or multiples)? I've been meaning to open mine back up and examine it closely as it was hard to find anything black-on-black.

Also, can you post a picture of the date code on your PCB?

bitslasher wrote: ↑Oh wow, just saw your reply here... That date makes that guy a very very very early model!

Thanks for those details, I haven't attempted to source dates on the chips, but I'm still in a fog about the chip with the handwritten label on mine. I've been told it was an internal IBM project name for the keyboard (Ferarri).

see for some photos

http://www.clickeykeyboards.com/model-m ... years-old/

I will take some time this weekend to setup my macro lens and lighting rig and will add additional PCB photos, for reference.