Programmable Tipro keyboard/module - does it have a controll

[Anne]

Hiya,

I've just discovered yesterday a great use for a programmable keyboard, and I'm thinking of buying a blank unused one (Tipro). I think I should be fine using a software like Paddy (or AHK) but I'm not too sure how the keyboard comes out of the box. They're the 128 keys matrix models, and I read on the Tipro website somewhere that they come either as modules, or with their own controller.
Can I assume that if there is a PS/2 connector delivered with the keyboard, it has a controller? I can't check the keyboard in person and the seller doesn't know anything about keyboards. A DVD comes in the box as well, so I'd think it's got to have a controller, and the DVD is the software to program it. Is it likely that I am right?

And if there was no controller included with the keyboard, what would this mean? Would the keyboard still give out "signals" that I wouldn't be able to change? And would the "signals" overlap with the signals coming from standard keyboards? My key catching software would probably work the way I want as long as the keys signals don't overlap with the ones from a regular keyboard.

Also, should I be aware of issues when using an adapter from PS/2 to USB? I read in one of the threads that I might need to remove the plastic bit if I wanted to use a standard PS/2 cable, but nothing yet about a USB adapter.


I'm on my way to read the FAQs on the site but I thought I'd ask in case someone experienced can give me an answer.

Thanks

[acolombo]

I'm not the best person to answer your question because there's a lot of people here more competent than me, and if I make some errors I hope someone will correct me.

This said, any keyboard has a controller, either if it is a programmable controller or a not-programmable one. It's different if you buy only the PCB, it might include the controller or not, but if you buy a complete keyboard or an assembling kit, it surely has a controller if not specified otherwise.

Tipro keyboards come with a software to program the keyboard, so I think the DVD is that software. I can't tell you more here as haven't had any of them.

Any software like AHK would still work even after you program your keyboard, and it works with any keyboard (it might not work with non-standard keys though), you just have to write your scripts right.

And for the last question, the PS2 to USB connector should work for all the standard keys you can find in most keyboards, I think it really depends on the keyboard though, some keyboard might not fully work. But in my opinion if you need a programmable keyboard it might be not very appropriate in my opinion because most likely you want it to have non-standard keys and special functions so, yeah, I wouldn't use a PS2 to USB converter for a programmable keyboard...

Also, if you want you can turn a non-programmable keyboard into a programmable one using a Teensy (or any its alternatives), and you could use it also as a PS2 to USB converter, I think there should be some threads about that in the Workshop.

[kbdfr]

Welcome to DT.
Precise questions, hopefully precise answers

• Let's start with the bad news.
  PS/2 to USB adapter: while you can use a Tipro keyboard with (even multiple) adapters, programming a Tipro keyboard imperatively requires direct connection, i.e. no adapter whatsoever. If the keyboard has a PS/2 controller, then your computer must have a PS/2 socket, otherwise the software will not recognise it and you will definitely not be able to programm it. Once programmed, though, a Tipro keyboard behaves as a standard keyboard and thus can be connected to any computer (even with another OS) the same way any standard keyboard would.
• Own controller/additional module: if a Tipro keyboard has no controller, you will not even be able to connect it to a computer at all, as the required socket/plug (depending on the model) is part of the controller itself. You can only connect it (via a dedicated mini-connector on the PCB itself) to another Tipro keyboard, which of course itself requires a controller to be connected to a computer.
• With or without controller: if the keyboard is delivered with a PS/2 connector, for the reasons stated above you can reasonably assume it has its own controller. But beware: Tipro keyboards have two connectors, one for the connection to the computer (it sends the signals to the computer) and one for an additional keyboard (it only receives signals from the attached keyboard).
• Software: you can download the last version of the Tipro software from their website, so no real use for a DVD (unless you want an older version). The software is needed only for programming purposes, the programmed configuration is stored in the keyboard itself.
  By the way, it could be a good idea to already download the software and have a look into it. When opening it, just disregard the error message telling a keyboard has not been found, and from the menu simply "Add" the model you intend to buy. You can even programm a configuration and save it for later uploading into your future keyboard.
• Purchase: you do not specify whether the model you want to buy is Tipro's MID or TMK range. If MID, I have several 128 keys matrix models and could sell you one for cheap (as long as your intended seller is not a DT member, though).

Any more questions, just ask

[Anne]

Thank you to you both for your answers.
I'm afraid I already had a keyboard in mind and couldn't help but purchase it, but thank you for your offer. And I'm in the UK so I would probably die of impatience! It's the MID keyboard in black, just received it today, looks awesome, new with all its plastic caps ready to configure, and is totally useless for at least the long week-end. I thought I still had a laptop with PS/2, but I didn't, and anyway apparently the internal laptop keyboard interferes with the programming so I would need a PS/2 on a tower PC... So I'm gong to order PCI card PS/2 controller and hope I can manage with windows 7 in spite of what I've read about the 64bit version not communicating at all with PS/2 devices. My other alternative is to get an old PC from Freecycle, because I got rid of my last old one a few years ago.
I'm going to have a look at Teensy out of interest, as using a regular keyboard had been in my mind before I fell in love with the Tipro.

I'm not used to the software I've used to configure my regular keyboard (Paddy), so I can't know for sure, but it seems that the Tipros come totally blank? like no key typed leads to any sort of signal... I guess AHK must have some utilities that catch the keys and show what their code is, I'm going to have a look in case I'm wrong. Basically I was really hoping the keyboard would come preloaded with some signals, and that I wouldn't have to worry about finding a PC with PS/2! As long as I 've got signals I can map them to that Paddy software basically, so that would have avoided the programming part.


And your mention of the 2 connectors is great, I was wondering if the real PS/2 port on the controller was for a mouse or something, so you've answered my question.


So, thanks again.

[Muirium]

PS/2 Tipros are a pain unless you have a 32 bit Windows box with native PS/2 port. I tried to work around that limit myself, but wound up having to pay a friend's obsolete machine a visit. The ChangeMe software is not exactly a pleasure, either. But once you've given your MID some arbitrary layout, you can indeed remap it with your own software as you like.

Nerd rant: I wound up tearing the PCB out of mine instead, handwiring it (don't!) and finding the plate isn't quite tight enough on the switches to keep the bloody things in when I pull caps now. So much for that project…

[Anne]

Sorry to hear... I've given myself a few days and it that doesn't work I may need to return the keyboard (which would kill me because it's so cute, and I would have to either fork out on an Xkeys or use a regular keyboard (but I'd like those plastic key covers I get with the Tipro, so that's why I didn't go that route).
Yeah I've looked around and it seems there isn't another option than PS/2 - outside of finding out exactly what Tipro means when they say you can communicate with the keyboard via serial. As I don't have a serials port anymore either, for now I've ordered a PS/2 controller card and I'm looking at booting an old XP system via a USB stick.

I could do with programming the keyboard with codes that aren't on a regular keyboard. I'm going to have to look into some manuals, as you are right Muirium, that ChangeMe Utility is a bit klunky and it's not obvious how I can do that rather than create macros from regular keys.

you can turn a non-programmable keyboard into a programmable one using a Teensy

I've had a look at this but that's some kind of electronic gadget, right? The cost of everything starts piling up and I'll soon regret not getting an Xkeys in the first place. I'll keep trying the Tipro via software solutions and if that doesn't work then I'll cry and prob go for an Xkey. It's also so sad (for me) that the keys don't come preprogrammed with some signals, now it's bank holiday here and my pci ps/2 controller won't be there before Tuesday. I have sent a desperate message on Freecycle though in the hope someone would have an old PC, no joy so far.

If anyone happens to know where to find proper info on communicating via RS232 please let me know, I haven't been too lucky with this search so far. Apparently this would make it possible to communicate with a 64bit system.

[acolombo]

I don't know where you read that but there's no problem with 64bit system and PS2. The only problem is with Windows 8 but that's not really a problem, in Windows 8 the PS2 ports are de-actived but you can re-activate them modifying the registry, it's pretty simple if you follow a guide. For the serial port, in my opinion you shouldn't even consider it. "The time-traveling is just too dangerous" -Doc Brown.

The Teensy is like an Arduino (maybe you heard of it, it's more famous), it's a microcontroller board. Making it simple it's just a little and less powerfull computer, and you can use it as I said before to convert a PS2 to USB and/or to have a custom layout. It's not that expensive (16$ I think) and there's also cheaper alternatives (Pro Micro for around 7$). The only problem is that they don't come ready to work, you have to buy the thing, connect a female PS2 port to it with wires, and then modify and flash an existing firmware. Nothing impossible, really, there's many guides and tutorials in the workshop section, but I don't know if it's the proper solution for you. For first read the tutorials, then if you think you'd be able to make it work buy it.

Also, if you're going to buy/find another old computer just to have the keyboard working, you should consider finding a motherboard for your current computer with ps2 ports. Many modern motherboards comes with PS2 ports, I have a Z97 motherboard (it's new, it's 2014) and it has PS2 ports! Obviously if you want to make it work on a portable computer this is not the case, you can't replace the motherboard.

[Muirium]

I don't know where you read that but there's no problem with 64bit system and PS2.

Try running Tipro's ChangeMe utility on Win 64 to see what I mean. No PS/2 MID compatibility. I tried.

[chzel]

Same here, tried and failed
Tried 32bit VM also, but since host is 64bit, no go!

[Anne]

Thank you Acolombo, I hadn't realised the Teensy could be used for converting. I'm so annoyed, I thought my MB had a legacy PCI port and didn't bother checking, of course they're all PCI-e, so my PS/2 controller doesn't fit in my current computer. I'm back on the hunt for an old computer but it doesn't need to be that old, so I might stand a better chance. A shame I can't try that registry trick! I'll check the Teensy again with this conversion in mind.
I now may have the option to get another device than a keyboard to do the job I want so I might just give up before investing too many hours I don't really have this month.

[acolombo]

A shame I can't try that registry trick! I'll check the Teensy again with this conversion in mind.

I'm sorry, I was talking about keyboards in general, as Muirium said it'sTipro's ChangeMe utility that isn't compatible with PS2 on 64 bit system.

I think you could just install Windows 7 32bit on a partition of your hard disk to solve the problem! Then adter you configure your keyboard you can use it also on 64bit maybe. But wait for other to have a confirmation because I don't know anything about Typros. -edit: you still don't have a PS2 port, didn't think of that. Still I think you could buy the right PCI card returning the one you bught or also consider changing the motherboard with one with ps2 ports, instead of buying/finding a whole big computer.

[andrewjoy]

Be mindful of PCI cards that claim to provide PS2 many of them are not real PS2 they just convert it similar to a bluecube. If you don't want to replace your motherboard you could always see if there is a any old pc's at a recycling center or something and ask if you can take it as long as it can run XP is should be fine.

[harlw]

PS/2 Tipros are a pain unless you have a 32 bit Windows box with native PS/2 port. I tried to work around that limit myself, but wound up having to pay a friend's obsolete machine a visit. The ChangeMe software is not exactly a pleasure, either. But once you've given your MID some arbitrary layout, you can indeed remap it with your own software as you like.

Nerd rant: I wound up tearing the PCB out of mine instead, handwiring it (don't!) and finding the plate isn't quite tight enough on the switches to keep the bloody things in when I pull caps now. So much for that project…

When you hand wired yours what controller did you end up using? I'm gonna have to try it with my Cherry 128 key, hopefully the cherry plate is tighter. I was looking at the teensy 2.0++ but didn't know if I needed that many pins or not, It seems I would.

[Wodan]

Puh I just got a ThinkPad Port Replicator II for an old T43 ... hope that PS/2 port is native ...

[CeeSA]

Puh I just got a ThinkPad Port Replicator II for an old T43 ... hope that PS/2 port is native ...

hmm, I think there is no hope for that. How could the Port Replicator have a native PS/2 port? Over the connection Port Rep to Thinkpad?
That makes no sense for me.

[Wodan]

The PS/2 port is native but there's a general issue with Tipro programming on notebook
The manual explains that because the integrated notebook is also connected via ps/2, the special Tipro communication fails...

[berserkfan]

Welcome to DT.
Precise questions, hopefully precise answers

• Let's start with the bad news.
  PS/2 to USB adapter: while you can use a Tipro keyboard with (even multiple) adapters, programming a Tipro keyboard imperatively requires direct connection, i.e. no adapter whatsoever. If the keyboard has a PS/2 controller, then your computer must have a PS/2 socket, otherwise the software will not recognise it and you will definitely not be able to programm it. Once programmed, though, a Tipro keyboard behaves as a standard keyboard and thus can be connected to any computer (even with another OS) the same way any standard keyboard would.
• Own controller/additional module: if a Tipro keyboard has no controller, you will not even be able to connect it to a computer at all, as the required socket/plug (depending on the model) is part of the controller itself. You can only connect it (via a dedicated mini-connector on the PCB itself) to another Tipro keyboard, which of course itself requires a controller to be connected to a computer.
• With or without controller: if the keyboard is delivered with a PS/2 connector, for the reasons stated above you can reasonably assume it has its own controller. But beware: Tipro keyboards have two connectors, one for the connection to the computer (it sends the signals to the computer) and one for an additional keyboard (it only receives signals from the attached keyboard).
• Software: you can download the last version of the Tipro software from their website, so no real use for a DVD (unless you want an older version). The software is needed only for programming purposes, the programmed configuration is stored in the keyboard itself.
  By the way, it could be a good idea to already download the software and have a look into it. When opening it, just disregard the error message telling a keyboard has not been found, and from the menu simply "Add" the model you intend to buy. You can even programm a configuration and save it for later uploading into your future keyboard.
• Purchase: you do not specify whether the model you want to buy is Tipro's MID or TMK range. If MID, I have several 128 keys matrix models and could sell you one for cheap (as long as your intended seller is not a DT member, though).

Any more questions, just ask

As a Tipro MID owner myself I can say that everything he said is right.

On my model I could not program it until i had connected it to a winXP system. The good thing however, is that once programmed, keyboard is USB-usable on Win7 and later. IE can just plug the ps2 head into a USB adapter. But if you want to change the programming you have to plug it back into the ps2 connection and restart the computer on winXP.