Cherry vs Costar-type Stabilizers: Thick PBT & other Issues

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Hypersphere

17 Nov 2014, 00:36

Not quite finished testing Cherry mx keyboards, I am seeking advice about Cherry vs Costar-type stabilizers and corresponding TKL keyboards. This is partly for my sake, but mostly for a colleague who is determined to go with a Cherry mx TKL keyboard (preferably non-backlit)

While I appreciate the convenience of Cherry stabilizers when changing keycaps on stabilized keys, I prefer the feel of Costar-type stabilizers.

It is possible to do a "clip" mod on Cherry stabilizers to make them feel more like Costar-type stabilizers, but this entails desoldering the stabilized keys -- something I would rather not do (and something I am certain my colleague will not want to do).

Given these preferences, I was all set to recommend a TKL board with Costar-type stabilizers (such as a Filco, CM QFR, or WASD V2), but now I have seen several posts about incompatibilities with thick PBT keycaps -- in particular, those made by Leopold and Ducky (interesting that keyboards made by these companies use Cherry stabilizers!). People encountering this problem are resorting to sanding the inside of the keycap to remove the surface that is rubbing on the stabilizer wire. This appears easier to do than desoldering switches on keyboards with Cherry stabilizers, although it seems a pity that such a workaround is necessary.

Recommendations welcome on non-backlit Cherry mx TKL boards with Cherry (e.g., Ducky, Kul, Leopold, others?) vs Cherry mx TKL boards with Costar-type stabilizers (e.g., CM QFR, Filco, WASD, others?), including any observations on the thick PBT keycap issue with Costar-type stabilizers.

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matt3o
-[°_°]-

17 Nov 2014, 10:37

honestly I have much more troubles with cherry stabs and custom keycap sets. Especially with SP spacebar (any profile). It never feels 100% right and I have to cut some of the plastic from the stabilizer.

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Nuum

17 Nov 2014, 11:26

Costar stab wires mostly have a bend, which collides with the thick keycaps. You could try to bend your own wire without that kink. I simply sanded my keycaps to make them fit.

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Muirium
µ

17 Nov 2014, 13:39

It it really necessary to desolder switches just to clip the legs on Cherry stabs?

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ماء

17 Nov 2014, 14:09

Dual switchs better than stabs 8-)

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Muirium
µ

17 Nov 2014, 14:14

Wobbly Spacebar!

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cookie

17 Nov 2014, 14:23

I must say that I liked Costar stabs over cherry ones, but I also had problems fitting a thick pbt backspace and spacebar on my CM QFR! Also feeling wise costar were better to me :)

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Hypersphere

17 Nov 2014, 14:30

Okay, looks like Costar stabs are favored, but there will still be issues with thick keycaps. However, the clash of wire against plastic can be remedied by sanding down the inside edge of the keycap.

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Muirium
µ

17 Nov 2014, 14:44

Hacky. That's Costar!

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Hypersphere

19 Nov 2014, 00:10

@Muirium: Regarding clipping Cherry stabs, yes, from other posts on this, it seems that plate-mounted Cherry stabs require desoldering in order to clip them. However, apparently not so if the switches are PCB-mounted. If this is not the case, it would be quite useful to know.

Although there are pros and cons for both, Cherry and Costar-type stabilizers, I think I would like to go with the Costar-type.

Which non-backlit TKL keyboards use Costar-type stabilizers, and which of these do people here recommend? This would be purchased in the US. The ones I know about are CM QFR, Filco MJ2 TKL, and WASD V2 87. Others?

ikonomov

08 Feb 2015, 02:05

Hypersphere wrote: @Muirium: The ones I know about are CM QFR, Filco MJ2 TKL, and WASD V2 87. Others?
The original Filco MJ TKL also has costar, as well as their other boards, I imagine. Also CM Quickfire Stealth. The CODE keyboards also have modified costar stabilizers that allow them to be used with back-lit keys. They are back-lit, however, and also you can only pick green or clear switches. I did call them to make sure, and they confirmed it.
The stabilizers can definitely be removed and clipped from a PCB-mounted keyboards without desoldering, but I don't know any with TKL, and who wants those keyboards anyways.
Ducky DK2087 Zero is TKL, non-backlit, and comes with clipped Cherry stabilizers. The same goes for Ducky DK2087s Zero and Ducky Shine 3 TKL, but both of these are backlit. There is also a curious review at http://www.custompcreview.com/reviews/r ... d/19396/2/ and video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDG7fvbNhIE that might suggest that Max keyboards also use clipped stabilizers.
I've actually tested two keyboards side by side, one with clipped cherry stabilizers and one with costar. After clipping the cherry stabilizers there is no difference in feel when the keys are bottomed out. The costar seems to do its job of "stabilizing" a little better than cherry when pushing on both ends of those keys and trying to wobble them up and down. The difference is very slight but I believe this to be the case. On the other hand keys with costar stabilizers make this annoying rattling nose when you tap on them very gently, which is most audible upon tapping at either end of the space bar. One can easily hear the sound of the high pitched rattling when typing on a quieter keyboard, say one that doesn't use blue switches. It happens the moment the fingertips touch the keys, basically. I haven't tried lubing the contact points for the costar stabilizers, but it might mitigate the problem.
Most new boards seem to come with back-lighting and cherry stabilizers, but it can be turned off very easily, and it stays off even after you turn off the computer. I have been using Filco MJ for years, so it is very shiny now :lol: , and recently bought Vortex thick PBT ds keycaps only to discover the little problem with the costar stabilizers. I didn't want to sand down those little things of beauty, as I don't think this is a perfect and an elegant solution. Next on the order was a Ducky DK2087s Zero TLK. Ah, the never ending mechanical keyboard madness...

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Spikebolt
√(4) != -2

08 Feb 2015, 11:12

I also prefer the feeling of Costar stabilizers. Maybe because my first keyboard was a Filco and the cherry just felt wong. I feel like it's a personal preference more than anything but most people prefer costar.

The backspace key is always an issue but nothing sanding doesn't solve. If you don't want to sand you can put a bit of TP "below" the stabilizer inserts in order to raise them slightly, it also works.

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Hypersphere

08 Feb 2015, 16:45

Thanks again for some recent comments. I now have only two Cherry mx keyboards, a WASD V2 87 with Costar-type stabilizers, and a Poker II with Cherry stabilizers. I prefer the feel of stabilized keys on the WASD keyboard.

Recently, I have acquired a KBP V60 with Matias Click switches. I like these switches much better than any Cherry mx switch I have tried. In addition, the stabilized keys use Alps-type wire stabilizers akin to Costar-type stabilizers. These wire stabilizers work exceptionally well on the V60 -- the stabilized keys do not rattle and the response is crisp and even
no matter where the key is struck.

davkol

09 Feb 2015, 19:37

Heh, I was almost afraid to order Vortex PBT doubleshots for my QFR, but they fit perfectly fine.

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