IBM Model M keycaps for Cherry MX keyboards
- Cherry1990
- Location: Italy
- Main keyboard: Filco Majestouch 2 TKL Multicam & PBT keycaps
- Main mouse: Logitech
- Favorite switch: MX Brown
- DT Pro Member: -
Almost daily I go to keypuller website to watch all keycaps set I missed... But I never saw an IBM Model M set for Cherry!!!
What do you think about make this set for MX? PBT, of course, dyesub print and "dear old" colours: white and grey. With normal legends, like the original IBM Model M!
I have a lot of Cherry G80 with faded keycaps... My heart is crying watching these wonderful PBT keycaps and their crappy prints... I need new set!
I cannot do it. I am not capable. This is a suggestion only.
What do you think about make this set for MX? PBT, of course, dyesub print and "dear old" colours: white and grey. With normal legends, like the original IBM Model M!
I have a lot of Cherry G80 with faded keycaps... My heart is crying watching these wonderful PBT keycaps and their crappy prints... I need new set!
I cannot do it. I am not capable. This is a suggestion only.
- 7bit
- Location: Berlin, DE
- Main keyboard: Tipro / IBM 3270 emulator
- Main mouse: Logitech granite for SGI
- Favorite switch: MX Lock
- DT Pro Member: 0001
Sorry, but the thing we want is the other way round: Thick Round 4 and Round 5 sphericals on Model F and M keyboards. IBM key caps are for curved keyboards, so they would be not so useful on a flat keyboard, like Cherry.
- Muirium
- µ
- Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
- Main keyboard: HHKB Type-S with Bluetooth by Hasu
- Main mouse: Apple Magic Mouse
- Favorite switch: Gotta Try 'Em All
- DT Pro Member: µ
I'm still to try some IBM<>MX adapters (Matteo and Mr. Interface have some in development in both directions). But I suspect IBM caps are more useful on a "flat" keyboard than tall MX caps like SA are on an IBM. That height + an adapter's height + IBM's curved backplate = ouch!7bit wrote: ↑IBM key caps are for curved keyboards, so they would be not so useful on a flat keyboard, like Cherry.
But IBM caps still work fine on a flat plane:
They're still nicer to type on, when on a curve, I suspect. As they were designed that way. But at least they work!
- Muirium
- µ
- Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
- Main keyboard: HHKB Type-S with Bluetooth by Hasu
- Main mouse: Apple Magic Mouse
- Favorite switch: Gotta Try 'Em All
- DT Pro Member: µ
The trouble with adapters is they make things *much* taller:
IBM caps are good and hollow, so adapting them to Cherry would be a piece of cake. But that MX mount inside of SA, DSA, etc. takes up so much space that an adapter has to sit underneath it, outside the cap, adding extra height. The NovaTouch gets away with this because its stems have an integrated adapter. But Alps isn't the right shape to take an MX cap's fat cylindrical mount. Or buckling spring.
IBM caps are good and hollow, so adapting them to Cherry would be a piece of cake. But that MX mount inside of SA, DSA, etc. takes up so much space that an adapter has to sit underneath it, outside the cap, adding extra height. The NovaTouch gets away with this because its stems have an integrated adapter. But Alps isn't the right shape to take an MX cap's fat cylindrical mount. Or buckling spring.
- Cherry1990
- Location: Italy
- Main keyboard: Filco Majestouch 2 TKL Multicam & PBT keycaps
- Main mouse: Logitech
- Favorite switch: MX Brown
- DT Pro Member: -
I was thinking to a new thick PBT dyesub set with original IBM colours ("pearl" and "pebble") for MX switches.
With stepped Caps Lock and a lot of Space Bars...
I am using a Model M but it is a bit tiring... MX Browns are less tiring... Is it possible to mod IBM Model M spring to have lighter one?
With stepped Caps Lock and a lot of Space Bars...
I am using a Model M but it is a bit tiring... MX Browns are less tiring... Is it possible to mod IBM Model M spring to have lighter one?
- ramnes
- ПБТ НАВСЕГДА
- Location: France
- Main keyboard: 35g BKE FC660C
- Main mouse: SteelSeries Kana v2
- Favorite switch: Beamspring
- DT Pro Member: -
What would be nice would be to make a generic MX caps that can accept the upper part of 2-pieces IBM caps.
I don't know anything about 3D modeling, but this one shouldn't be hard to do, right?
I don't know anything about 3D modeling, but this one shouldn't be hard to do, right?
- XMIT
- [ XMIT ]
- Location: Austin, TX area
- Main keyboard: XMIT Hall Effect
- Main mouse: CST L-Trac Trackball
- Favorite switch: XMIT 60g Tactile Hall Effect
- DT Pro Member: 0093
In principle SP should be able to manufacture something like an SA key with a Model M underside, in much the same way that Unicomp's current replacement keys are one piece. SA can mold a number of key switch interfaces including Cherry MX and "square" so I assume blank is an option.
An SA row 2 thin key (like the red Esc that I just ordered from SP) may even be *just barely* big enough to fit atop the bottom half of a regular old Model M key.
Yes, I too was thinking that a Model M with all row 2 or row 3 SAs would be neat.
Why do Cherry MX switch keyboards need to be flat? Something like the Kinesis Advantage shows that switches can be put anywhere.
I've been thinking of a board design that has say 6 different PCBs, one for each row, with each PCB mounted along a curve. Then, SA group buys would be "easy" (just one profile!). Colemak and Dvorak and Workman and whatever users could just move keycaps as they see fit. This would just use PCB mounted switches.
SA keycaps are still not PBT, though. I wonder why. I wonder if the spherical shape has something to do with it. Can anyone vet this argument on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_keyboard ?
"Initially, sublimation printing, where a special ink is printed onto the keycap surface and the application of heat causes the ink molecules to penetrate and commingle with the plastic modules, had a problem because finger oils caused the molecules to disperse, but then a necessarily very hard clear coating was applied to prevent this. Coincident with sublimation printing, which was first used in high volume by IBM on their keyboards, was the introduction by IBM of single-curved-dish keycaps to facilitate quality printing of key legends by having a consistently curved surface instead of a dish."
This argues that spherical keycaps + sublimation printing = no good.
An SA row 2 thin key (like the red Esc that I just ordered from SP) may even be *just barely* big enough to fit atop the bottom half of a regular old Model M key.
Yes, I too was thinking that a Model M with all row 2 or row 3 SAs would be neat.
Why do Cherry MX switch keyboards need to be flat? Something like the Kinesis Advantage shows that switches can be put anywhere.
I've been thinking of a board design that has say 6 different PCBs, one for each row, with each PCB mounted along a curve. Then, SA group buys would be "easy" (just one profile!). Colemak and Dvorak and Workman and whatever users could just move keycaps as they see fit. This would just use PCB mounted switches.
SA keycaps are still not PBT, though. I wonder why. I wonder if the spherical shape has something to do with it. Can anyone vet this argument on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_keyboard ?
"Initially, sublimation printing, where a special ink is printed onto the keycap surface and the application of heat causes the ink molecules to penetrate and commingle with the plastic modules, had a problem because finger oils caused the molecules to disperse, but then a necessarily very hard clear coating was applied to prevent this. Coincident with sublimation printing, which was first used in high volume by IBM on their keyboards, was the introduction by IBM of single-curved-dish keycaps to facilitate quality printing of key legends by having a consistently curved surface instead of a dish."
This argues that spherical keycaps + sublimation printing = no good.
- XMIT
- [ XMIT ]
- Location: Austin, TX area
- Main keyboard: XMIT Hall Effect
- Main mouse: CST L-Trac Trackball
- Favorite switch: XMIT 60g Tactile Hall Effect
- DT Pro Member: 0093
Muirium I found the page I was thinking of:
"Guide to making ANY key Buckling Spring compatible"
https://imgur.com/a/J8Kkh
Linked from https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyb ... ations_ibm
This seems better than an adapter, though more permanent.
"Guide to making ANY key Buckling Spring compatible"
https://imgur.com/a/J8Kkh
Linked from https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyb ... ations_ibm
This seems better than an adapter, though more permanent.
-
- Location: geekhack ergonomics subforum
- Favorite switch: Alps plate spring; clicky SMK
- DT Pro Member: -
Too bad there’s no source given. Would be interesting to trace through the wiki history to figure out who added that bit and ask them directly. Potentially written by an expert on the subject.jsoltren wrote: ↑This argues that spherical keycaps + sublimation printing = no good.
I suspect it’s easier to do both dyesubs and pad printing on cylindrical rather than spherical shape (maybe cheaper?), but I have seen at least 2–3 examples of spherical dyesubs before, so it’s certainly not impossible.
I suspect it also has to do with a desire to have a big rectangle for printing multiple top legends on the same keycap (some buckling spring caps have 4 legends on a keytop), a nice amount of space for front printing, and maybe something about the specifics of Model F keycaps uniformity across rows.
Are there any mandates in DIN/ISO standards for how various international keycap legends need to be positioned? One of the goals of the XT keyboard was to comply with German standards.