For Japanese members: Omron B3G and B3G-S

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Daniel Beardsmore

25 Jan 2015, 02:46

For anyone who can read Japanese, here are some B3G and B3G-S specifications and details:

http://www.fa.omron.co.jp/view/closed/s ... eyword=B3G

There's even what appears to be a five-gang switch in the B3G-S series.

Unfortunately all the details are in scanned documents, so they can't even be fed through automated translation, and only forum members who can read Japanese will be able to understand the documentation.

Maybe some will be able to make some use out of it. You can see B3G-S100N here:

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/BELLA-Ge ... 71859.html

Basically it's a white version, whatever that means. I can't even work out what the "N" means, though one of the PDFs appears to cover this to some degree or other.

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002
Topre Enthusiast

26 Jan 2015, 04:07

Nice find :)
If there is any particular document you would like translated, let me know. It looks like there are only 4 unique documents among that table so I'll at least work on getting them to the point where we can machine translate them.

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Daniel Beardsmore

26 Jan 2015, 22:12

There are indeed only four documents. Machine translation sucks — it returns complete doubledutch for Japanese (something to do with Mr Big and his nail) and only marginally comprehensible text for Chinese. There are numerous pages (primarily Chinese and Japanese) needing human translation to unlock the knowledge they contain.

I've hit all my limits now.

The knowledge is out there, of course. Some photos mr_a500 found recently of an Alps-made TI-99/4A keyboard contained the first indication of the official series name for vintage tee mount (Alps SKCC Series) but so far there are no 100% conclusive photos showing the switches. I'm hoping that I can secure the "money shot" photos from a site owner, but I'm not holding my breath. I also found one of another TI-99/4A keyboard showing Futaba and Se-Jin branding that seems to be old Futaba linear switches, but that site owner hasn't responded, and no-one else seems to have that model of keyboard.

You know those dreams where you're trying to walk, and yet you're getting nowhere?

I've saved those PDFs to my PC in case they vanish, and that's where I'm leaving it.

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002
Topre Enthusiast

27 Jan 2015, 08:36

Well my wife owes me one after not coming to a complete stop at a Stop sign today and getting a $341 fine :(
I'll get them translated properly...I wonder what the best way to present the translated docs would be? Maybe Google Docs?

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Daniel Beardsmore

27 Jan 2015, 20:36

She's welcome to try. It's really for a person in the know, though. I figure that a lot of the trouble with machine translation comes from language abuse. For example, in Chinese, "軸" means chiefly "axis" or "axle", whereas we would use "slider", "shaft", "stem", "plunger" etc. In Japanese, "軸" is "axis", "shaft" or "axle", so maybe the Chinese took the usage of 軸 from the Japanese, for this specific context.

The continual usage in Japanese of a word meaning "nail" is probably a similar issue. Words take on multiple meanings, both through metaphor and through history, e.g. "housing" can mean "accommodation", "case", or "shell", and "shell" can mean "enclosure" or "user interface" or the thing snails have but slugs don't … I guess "nail" means "contact" (not the sort you put in your eyes, or the sort in your address book) or "leg" (but not as in leg of lamb) or "pin" (but not the sort that goes in your hair) but I don't know — and with so many words mistranslated, it comes back as little more than a string of random words. (The effectiveness of translation is also written style–dependent.)

Trying to get a machine to pick correct translations of metaphorical jargon is impossible, but it's tough for a human being too, if you have no idea of the subject. mbodrov translated Sandy's now-removed Alps page into English, and while I can see now why Sandy deleted it (the information represents too outdated a perspective on Alps switches) his human translation was fantastic. Being a keyboard enthusiast, mbodrov was able to understand everything Sandy meant and translate it impeccably into English (and he's in Russia, although not necessarily Russian), and the page suddenly made complete sense, in a way that Google's automation had no hope of achieving.

I don't actually know what to do with the information — I don't have any plans for it, though Google isn't the first place I'd tie up my data. It's just there for someone who's interested in studying Omron further. It's information that I'd missed the last time that I looked up B3G-S series, and someone might want to take it further. I have no plans to do anything with it myself.

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