IBM ssk - odd shift key behaviour

[ShivaYash]

Hello,

Is this normal? My right shift key is annoying me.

This KB was purchased via this forum recently and on the whole, its great. The right shift key, along with other larger keys were sticking ALL the time. The seller kindly sent me replacement caps which cured the issue. Now, very very rarely, the right shift sticks. But now, I have to hit is either dead centre or towards the left, in order to depress. Is this normal?

Thanks,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjDK78NczCc

[Muirium]

Normal? Nope. IBM would never have let that fly as standard.

Take the cap off. And shoot the stab mount insert. It could be in wrong.

[andrewjoy]

I think there are 2 types of insert right ? I remember someone mentioning that , possibly the one in the enter is wrong ?

I would lub it up and see if it helps , not too much mind you don't want it dripping down onto the membrane, something a bit thicker than oil, i used coconut oil as it was the only thing i had to hand on my 122 ansi mod but i don't recommend it. Worked well tho and smells nice .

[ShivaYash]

Normal? Nope. IBM would never have let that fly as standard.

Take the cap off. And shoot the stab mount insert. It could be in wrong.

IMG_1147.jpg (591.98 KiB) Viewed 5200 times

[ShivaYash]

I think there are 2 types of insert right ? I remember someone mentioning that , possibly the one in the enter is wrong ?

I would lub it up and see if it helps , not too much mind you don't want it dripping down onto the membrane, something a bit thicker than oil, i used coconut oil as it was the only thing i had to hand on my 122 ansi mod but i don't recommend it. Worked well tho and smells nice .

I've tried lubricating and it has made things worse... this is before I got the replacement keycaps.

I used less than a drop of 3 in 1 oil. I wiped everything clean once I realised it was not helping.

The key in question has always sounded different too. The rivets under this area are intact. One of the first jobs I did was strip down the keyboard and clean it.

Can you send me a photo of the different stabilisers? I can't seem to find one online, showing the differences.

[Muirium]

Looks right. There's two kinds, but ANSI SSKs only use the first as the other sort is for vertical keys like ISO Return or on the numpad.

Here's how to pop it out if you want to take a look:

I'd consider pulling it out and putting back in, rotated 180°. Or maybe swapping with another of the inserts on the keyboard. Could just be a tolerance thing.

[ShivaYash]

Looks right. There's two kinds, but ANSI SSKs only use the first as the other sort is for vertical keys like ISO Return or on the numpad.

Here's how to pop it out if you want to take a look:

I'd consider pulling it out and putting back in, rotated 180°. Or maybe swapping with another of the inserts on the keyboard. Could just be a tolerance thing.

Thanks, yes I've tried all that and its ok, I just now swapped them again and its definitely improved matters, for example, I can now depress the right shift from its right hand side edge. Shall let it settle now and see if it improves with some use.

[ShivaYash]

Its definitely improved, I can now strike the shift key on the right of side, and it goes down, but its still not smooth as the other keys. Apols for the poor quality video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDsW7ZihHpc

[scottc]

Hm, interesting, An alt key on my second SSK sticks and is always activated. I wonder if it's a similar case.

[ShivaYash]

Second ssk heh? Wow! My situation has improved for sure and during actual/ real typing, its smooth and easy to depress, but every so often, if i 'test' it, it shudders a little before depressing. ODD.

Clearly only buying another SSK, ideally in unicorn industrial grey will resolve the issue for me.

[Muirium]

I have three. Well, two of them here, and one still in America.

The star is a new in box model that just arrived. I haven't dared peek inside yet…

[scottc]

Go on... How else do you know it's not full of bricks?

[XMIT]

I have had this exact problem many times and have tried everything you have and other tricks as well. The best solution I have found is to buy a new white stabilizer insert from Unicormp for $1.50. These use a slightly updated mold that seems to eliminate sticking keys. Good luck!

[ShivaYash]

I have had this exact problem many times and have tried everything you have and other tricks as well. The best solution I have found is to buy a new white stabilizer insert from Unicormp for $1.50. These use a slightly updated mold that seems to eliminate sticking keys. Good luck!

Many thanks! I have a few little bits I want to order from them, so I will add the stabilisers to the list.

[Muirium]

Go on... How else do you know it's not full of bricks?

In a manner of speaking, it was!


http://deskthority.net/post207107.html#p207107

[idollar]

It seems that this could be a problem with the SSKs.

My right shift had problems to actuate and was getting suck. I lose the screws and it got definitively better. It would always come back up. But the actuation was forced when pressing at the edges of the cap. Then I moved the inserts around, including a 180 deg rotation. I managed to improve it again. The final solution was a replacement of all the inserts with the ones from a 122m. Now it works like a dream.

If many people are having this problem, one could deduce that is a general issue.

[ShivaYash]

It seems that this could be a problem with the SSKs.

My right shift had problems to actuate and was getting suck. I lose the screws and it got definitively better. It would always come back up. But the actuation was forced when pressing at the edges of the cap. Then I moved the inserts around, including a 180 deg rotation. I managed to improve it again. The final solution was a replacement of all the inserts with the ones from a 122m. Now it works like a dream.

If many people are having this problem, one could deduce that is a general issue.

Thanks for this information. Would be interesting to see it Mu suffers the same on his new old stock example. I'll post in the marketplace section to see it any one is parting a board for parts. Being in the UK I don't have the same large pool of resources as those in the USA.

I'm a novice IBM person, but do I take it, the 122 is the standard model M keyboard? Are the stabilisers 'better' from these boards?

With best

[chzel]

It seems that this could be a problem with the SSKs.
...<snip>...
If many people are having this problem, one could deduce that is a general issue.

Thanks for this information. Would be interesting to see it Mu suffers the same on his new old stock example....<snip>

My SSK, from the same haul as Muirium's, blue box/grey label/beige plate, has absolutely no problems with Shift actuation, even at the very edge of the key.
Are both your SSKs bolt modded? Maybe bolted a bit too tight? The plastic plate could possibly deform enough for the stabilizer to bind.

[Muirium]

I tried my NIB SSK just briefly, but the stabilised keys were all fine. (I habitually try every stabbed key right on the edges when I test a board.) In fact, I've never had trouble with stabs on a Model M *except* for the 122 key that I bolt modded. Chzel's right: a bolt mod can put too much strain in places across the board. And is a great opportunity to make stupid goofs when inserting stabiliser bases, as I discovered.

122 keys aren't the usual size either. That's 101 key. 122's are huge.

[ShivaYash]

Thanks to all. I should say, my '87 SSK is stock and not modded.

[idollar]

My SSK is a 1391472 (22.July.1987) that I bolt moded.
This board has nothing to do with the NIB that I am waiting for

As I said, initially the screws (I used screws) where to tight. This was corrected.
It works perfectly now after I replaced the inserts with a 122M.
BTW the 122 with the SSK inserts works also without any problem (I am typing this post with it to test the board)

[ShivaYash]

My right shift key has started playing up again. It alone sounds so different to the rest of the keys, and its driving me insane.

It just does not liked to be depressed on its right side. Pressing the right edge is fine, as is the left, and left of centre, but right of centre, it just does not go down!

Any ideas, other than to buy another KB?

[Muirium]

Maybe a fresh cap? Seems like it must be some sort of tolerance issue. At worst: the barrel is the problem and may not be fixable. But different stab inserts and caps are the things to try first.

Always annoying when something's up with your dream keyboard. Model Ms aren't typically troubled by this.

[ShivaYash]

Maybe a fresh cap? Seems like it must be some sort of tolerance issue. At worst: the barrel is the problem and may not be fixable. But different stab inserts and caps are the things to try first.

Always annoying when something's up with your dream keyboard. Model Ms aren't typically troubled by this.

I just opened her up and clearly I need a bolt mod, sooner or later.

I'd prefer not to do it in all honestly, I like running it stock. The rivets in this area, (the right hand shift) have all gone!

I am suspect movement in the barrels is causing this. During this inspection for a moment I lost the cursors! The springs moved as I tried to see between the metal plate and barrels! YIKES. I was able to recover them and all is now working. I also placed two folded up squares of paper behind the shift key area, to give some support. And I am not sure if it is this bodge, but things are now much better, UNTIL THE NEXT TIME.

I hope Cindy will soon hook me up with another SSK. But nothing feels as good as your first heh?

[ShivaYash]

My SSK is a 1391472 (22.July.1987) that I bolt moded.
This board has nothing to do with the NIB that I am waiting for

As I said, initially the screws (I used screws) where to tight. This was corrected.
It works perfectly now after I replaced the inserts with a 122M.
BTW the 122 with the SSK inserts works also without any problem (I am typing this post with it to test the board)

Where did you get these 122 inserts my friend?

I need someone US-side to hook me up, so to say.

[Mal-2]

Maybe a fresh cap? Seems like it must be some sort of tolerance issue. At worst: the barrel is the problem and may not be fixable. But different stab inserts and caps are the things to try first.

Always annoying when something's up with your dream keyboard. Model Ms aren't typically troubled by this.

I just opened her up and clearly I need a bolt mod, sooner or later.

I'd prefer not to do it in all honestly, I like running it stock. The rivets in this area, (the right hand shift) have all gone!

I am suspect movement in the barrels is causing this. During this inspection for a moment I lost the cursors! The springs moved as I tried to see between the metal plate and barrels! YIKES. I was able to recover them and all is now working. I also placed two folded up squares of paper behind the shift key area, to give some support. And I am not sure if it is this bodge, but things are now much better, UNTIL THE NEXT TIME.

I hope Cindy will soon hook me up with another SSK. But nothing feels as good as your first heh?

Admittedly I am not clear on exactly what rivets are required, but if they're anything like the kind I've used before, rivet tools are not expensive. You'll still need the right size of rivets, a box of which will probably set you back almost as much as the tool itself, but it's still not a terribly expensive bit of kit.

[fohat]

Where did you get these 122 inserts my friend?

Barrel inserts are inserts. If any particular insert fits better than any other, it is coincidence.

[ShivaYash]

Maybe a fresh cap? Seems like it must be some sort of tolerance issue. At worst: the barrel is the problem and may not be fixable. But different stab inserts and caps are the things to try first.

Always annoying when something's up with your dream keyboard. Model Ms aren't typically troubled by this.

I just opened her up and clearly I need a bolt mod, sooner or later.

I'd prefer not to do it in all honestly, I like running it stock. The rivets in this area, (the right hand shift) have all gone!

I am suspect movement in the barrels is causing this. During this inspection for a moment I lost the cursors! The springs moved as I tried to see between the metal plate and barrels! YIKES. I was able to recover them and all is now working. I also placed two folded up squares of paper behind the shift key area, to give some support. And I am not sure if it is this bodge, but things are now much better, UNTIL THE NEXT TIME.

I hope Cindy will soon hook me up with another SSK. But nothing feels as good as your first heh?

Admittedly I am not clear on exactly what rivets are required, but if they're anything like the kind I've used before, rivet tools are not expensive. You'll still need the right size of rivets, a box of which will probably set you back almost as much as the tool itself, but it's still not a terribly expensive bit of kit.

Borat accent: 'you make joke me with?!'

Rivet mod usually means pilot holes and screws, with a new membrane. A member on here does them really nicely.

I actually probably only need one screw to fix my present situation.

[Mal-2]

Borat accent: 'you make joke me with?!'

Rivet mod usually means pilot holes and screws, with a new membrane. A member on here does them really nicely.

I actually probably only need one screw to fix my present situation.

Then I don't get it. For a rivet to fail, doesn't there have to have been a rivet there in the first place? For there to have been a rivet, wouldn't the holes have to already exist? Your description sounded like one or more existing rivets broke and needed replacing. Why would that require any new holes?

[Muirium]

Search for "IBM Model M bolt mod" and have a look at how it's done. These are single ended rivets, if that's a sensible term, that are essentially parts of the barrel frame. It's been a while since I made a good old messy bolt mod, so I forget whether the rivets are technically separate plastic, sunk into the frame like molten plastic bolts. But whatever, they have just one end and one hole to work with. Otherwise, Model Ms would be as nice to work with as Model Fs. Clearly not IBM's intention!

Seriously: the process is not for the faint hearted or those operating on a much loved keyboard as their first! Some people like to say it's easy… ask for photos of their work, and if they did a good job, send your board to them and pay them to do it!

The "122" mentioned earlier is just a kind of Model M. The big 122 key battleship Ms are relatively common and quite unloved. They make a great, cheap source of IBM caps (better legends than Unicomp's and better for colour matching) and other tasty parts.