Keyboard identification

User avatar
stratokaster

15 Feb 2015, 20:04

Hello. I'm new here and new to all this mechanical stuff.

Recently I decided to switch to a mechanical keyboard. But before buying something new and expensive, I first decided to sift through our local eBay-like sites in search of vintage treasures.

I have found four keyboards that look promising, but I don't know what exactly they are.

The first one is made by Alps in Ireland and its FCC ID is GYIMIDAS101-102. Its case looks identical to Dell AT101. I suspect it uses some kind of Alps switches, am I right?
GYIMIDAS101-102_1.JPG
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GYIMIDAS101-102_2.JPG
GYIMIDAS101-102_2.JPG (215.94 KiB) Viewed 11861 times
The second one is a complete mystery. It has no markings whatsoever except for the serial number. It looks very old and its Ctrl and Alt keys have a very distinctive shape.
Безымянная_1.JPG
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The third one again doesn't have any markings except for FCC ID which happens to be HQK RB-2001. Googling it yields a single link to Geekhack where it's listed as having some kind of blue tactile switches (?), but sadly without any pictures.
RB-2001_1.JPG
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The fourth one is branded by Digital and the seller says its model number is RT101+. No information on this one as far as I can tell.

Can somebody help me identify those boards? Are any of them worth buying?

User avatar
Muirium
µ

15 Feb 2015, 20:44

The Alps board is likely to be good. And the fourth one could have space invader switches, which I like a lot:

http://deskthority.net/wiki/NMB_RT-100/RT-8200_series

Here's a long review:

http://deskthority.net/review-f45/nmb-r ... t8469.html

All of these boards you've posted have Cyrillic legends… very nice! Even those of us who only type in Latin letters like those caps!

Image

User avatar
seebart
Offtopicthority Instigator

15 Feb 2015, 20:46

Muirium wrote: Unless you're in Russia or elsewhere in the Cyrillic zone…

Anyway, those caps are quite sought after in the west. We like secondary legends!
True.
Last edited by seebart on 15 Feb 2015, 20:50, edited 3 times in total.

User avatar
Muirium
µ

15 Feb 2015, 20:47

Unless you're in Russia or elsewhere in the Cyrillic zone…

Anyway, those caps are quite sought after in the west. We like secondary legends!

User avatar
stratokaster

15 Feb 2015, 20:49

seebart wrote: that´s quite unusual to find three keyboards like that all with Cyrillic legends. I think he "only" found three keyboards Mu!
Not very unusual, actually, since I live in a country which uses Cyrillic script... :-)

Anyway, I decided to bite the bullet and bought all of these keyboards for a whopping sum of $5. I will post my findings when they arrive.

User avatar
stratokaster

15 Feb 2015, 20:54

Muirium wrote: All of these boards you've posted have Cyrillic legends… very nice! Even those of us who only type in Latin letters like those caps!

Image
I see you have keycaps labeled in Ukrainian, very nice! It even has a symbol for Ukrainian hryvnya!

User avatar
seebart
Offtopicthority Instigator

15 Feb 2015, 20:54

stratokaster wrote:
seebart wrote: that´s quite unusual to find three keyboards like that all with Cyrillic legends. I think he "only" found three keyboards Mu!
Not very unusual, actually, since I live in a country which uses Cyrillic script... :-)

Anyway, I decided to bite the bullet and bought all of these keyboards for a whopping sum of $5. I will post my findings when they arrive.
At that price it´s risk free shopping. Hope to see more pictures when you get them. ;)

User avatar
Muirium
µ

15 Feb 2015, 21:08

$5 for the lot? You didn't mention they were all from one guy!

You're all but guaranteed to find a nice mech or two among them. Good, old-school, score!

User avatar
stratokaster

15 Feb 2015, 21:10

Muirium wrote: $5 for the lot? You didn't mention they were all from one guy!
I bought three of them from one guy for $3 and the fourth one from another seller for $2.
Muirium wrote: You're all but guaranteed to find a nice mech or two among them. Good, old-school, score!
I really hope this is the case, but if not, I certainly will not cry in despair :)

User avatar
crunch

15 Feb 2015, 21:25

I think the first keyboard is some kind of dome kb.

User avatar
Daniel Beardsmore

15 Feb 2015, 22:45

The second looks really familiar, but I can't place it.

The first one though …
crunch wrote: I think the first keyboard is some kind of dome kb.
I suspect you are correct. I was caught out by the "ALPSCL" (as in SKCL), but it has a reverse curve case, not a banana case. It's the same shape as this:

http://sandy55.fc2web.com/keyboard/wang-5181.html

Rubber domes with sliders.

The RT101+ could be space invaders or domes, as the same model numbers were used for both originally.

User avatar
stratokaster

15 Feb 2015, 22:59

Daniel Beardsmore wrote: I suspect you are correct. I was caught out by the "ALPSCL" (as in SKCL), but it has a reverse curve case, not a banana case. It's the same shape as this:

http://sandy55.fc2web.com/keyboard/wang-5181.html

Rubber domes with sliders.
And it actually has the same FCC ID. Well, I guess it's still a rather good keyboard for $1 :lol:

User avatar
stratokaster

18 Feb 2015, 22:20

Well, after all, I was not lucky. All of the keyboards mentioned in my first post turned out to use rubber domes.

However, there were a couple of surprises.

Some initial impressions:

1) Alps AT101-102 is very mediocre, even for a rubber dome, but the keycaps are very good. They are thick, made of PBT, and both Latin and Cyrillic legends appear to be dye-subbed. I will definitely save them for future use.

2) The second keyboard is still a mystery, its manufacturer is unknown (maybe later I'll find some clues inside). My guess is that it uses sliders over rubber domes. The keycaps have a very distinctive shape. They are much higher at the bottom than at the top, and all their edges are very sharp. Like the front edge of my MacBook Pro. They are double-shot and appear to be Cherry MX-compatible.

3) The third keyboard (HQKRB-2001) is the biggest surprise of the bunch. It appears to be made by a Taiwanese company called Key Mouse Enterprise. It also uses sliders over rubber domes, but it's actually rather awesome to type on. I don't know how they did it, but the keys are very light, but with a pronounced tactile "bump." The return action is strong and swift and the keys emit a very satisfying "thud" as they return to their initial position. The keycaps are double-shot ABS and they appear identical to the keycaps shown here: http://deskthority.net/photos-f62/click ... t4861.html They even use the same god-awful font for Russian legends (with letters З, Я, Ж and Б being especially ugly). The only difference is that they use Cherry MX mount instead of Alps mount.

However, the most distinctive feature of this keyboard is that it has a built-in speaker which beeps every time you press a key. As you can imagine, it gets annoying pretty quickly. One day I will open it up and rip the speaker out, because otherwise it's a very good keyboard to type on.

4) DEC RT-101+ uses NMB sliders over rubber domes. It's a good rubber dome board, but not as good as the previous one.

One of the sellers also decided to throw in some keyboards I didn't buy as a bonus. What I got is:

Chicony KB-5311 in dark. The case is dark blue, the alphanumerics are coffee brown and other keys are dark grey. It looks very handsome, too bad it's as mushy as mashed potatoes. No joy in typing on it.

BTC 5339R-O. As far as I understand, it uses some kind of linear capacitive switches. It feels like nothing I have ever seen before, with keys being very light and completely linear. The keys activate way before bottoming-out, so typing on this keyboard is a pleasant experience. It's not silent however, because all the springs under the keys strongly resonate when I'm typing at full speed. I also make a lot of typos on this keyboard because of its linearity. But it must be awesome for gaming. The keycaps, unfortunately, are of low quality (they are ABS and pad-printed, with many legends fading away and some completely gone).

BTC 5139. A mediocre rubber dome keyboard with Cherry MX-compatible keycaps.

IBM KB-9910. A good rubber dome board, I actually use one of them in my office. It's compact, it looks good and is almost completely silent. This copy turned out to be almost new, except for a swarm of dead cockroaches inside. (Ewwww...) BTW, the circuit board and the case are marked as "KB-7953", so I think this keyboard is identical to IBM KB-7953 which was made by Chicony.

User avatar
scottc

18 Feb 2015, 22:48

stratokaster wrote: 1) Alps AT101-102 is very mediocre, even for a rubber dome, but the keycaps are very good. They are thick, made of PBT, and both Latin and Cyrillic legends appear to be dye-subbed. I will definitely save them for future use.
I have one of these boards without the Cyrillic and the keycaps are very nice, but I wasn't sure if they were dyesub PBT. I couldn't tell. The spacebar and case were banana yellow, but the other keycaps weren't yellowed at all, so I assumed the same. Have you tested that they are indeed PBT?

User avatar
Muirium
µ

18 Feb 2015, 22:53

Not too bad then. Sounds like you got some nice caps among the bunch, and a good dome board. Typing on a Topre just now, I can confirm there are such things! Usually dome over membrane is bad news, but sometimes it was done right. There's even a thread about people's preferences:

http://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/fav ... ite%20dome

As for the linear capsense board, that sounds like "foam and foil" to me. Keytronic were among the companies who did a lot of that.

http://deskthority.net/wiki/Key_Tronic_foam_and_foil

Apparently they're quite good. I can believe it: every capsense board I've tried is awesome! Linears are definitely an acquired taste, though. I like them, and gamers swear by them, but many people really need that tactile bump or click to type with confidence.

User avatar
stratokaster

18 Feb 2015, 23:03

scottc wrote:
stratokaster wrote: 1) Alps AT101-102 is very mediocre, even for a rubber dome, but the keycaps are very good. They are thick, made of PBT, and both Latin and Cyrillic legends appear to be dye-subbed. I will definitely save them for future use.
I have one of these boards without the Cyrillic and the keycaps are very nice, but I wasn't sure if they were dyesub PBT. I couldn't tell. The spacebar and case were banana yellow, but the other keycaps weren't yellowed at all, so I assumed the same. Have you tested that they are indeed PBT?
It's the same with my board: the case and the spacebar are very yellow, but the other keys are not. Also, when I look at the keycaps with a magnifying glass, I see that the legends are slightly fuzzy and appear to be "sinking" into the plastic, if you know what I mean.

User avatar
scottc

18 Feb 2015, 23:05

Yeah, I understand completely. I hadn't thought of that approach, thank you for sharing. That's great!

User avatar
Daniel Beardsmore

19 Feb 2015, 00:11

Don't forget that BTC made their own foam and foil keyboards — the first BTC keyboard is one of these:

[wiki]BTC 53 series[/wiki]

The second one (5139) is rubber dome over PCB. The rubber in mine has gone stiff and it's now absurdly tactile but consequently very difficult to use.

User avatar
stratokaster

19 Feb 2015, 04:01

So, about that mysterious keyboard...
mmj-1.jpg
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Its Ctrl and Alt keys have a very distinctive shape.
mmj-11.jpg
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No, screw that. All the keys have a very distinctive shape. They are very angular, with a sharp profile.
mmj-10.jpg
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The keycaps are double-shot and appear to be Cherry MX-compatible.
mmj-12.jpg
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That's one hell of a rubber dome. The rubber part is almost as big as the keycap itself!
mmj-7.jpg
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This board has no stinking membranes. It uses a high-quality PCB instead. I believe the sliders have conductive feet and simply bridge the contacts on the PCB when the keys are pressed.
mmj-6.jpg
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The PCB is marked "MMJ" and "BJ 101", but googling these markings returns nothing.
mmj-5.jpg
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mmj-4.jpg
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The controller...
mmj-3.jpg
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If you're an observant person, you have probably already noticed one very strange thing.

Yes, my friends, say hello to this Soviet (!) IC. The К155ЛН3 (K155LN3) is a six-element logical inverter. Made in the USSR in October 1988.
mmj-2.jpg
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Overall this keyboard is a very strange beast. But undeniably this is one of the nicest rubber domes out there, both in terms of construction quality and in terms of feel.

User avatar
Muirium
µ

19 Feb 2015, 14:06

Nice Soviet board! More closeup pictures of the top of the PCB (the side facing the domes and caps) in higher resolution would be good. I'm thinking this may be capsense after all, but can't tell from just the one small picture.

See, Topre has done both capsense and conductive domes:

Topre Capsense PCBs
Image

Topre Conductive PCB
Image

http://deskthority.net/wiki/Topre_switch

They're much better known for their capsense domes, of course. And there's definitely more than one way to do either technique. A good close look of yours is in order! And check for conductive patches on the bottom of your domes. Conductive switches need a conductor, obviously. Capsense does as well, but it's usually a spring and doesn't have to touch the PCB, just come very close.

User avatar
scottc

19 Feb 2015, 14:09

Looks really interesting, Stratokaster. Have you ever tried Topre? If so, are they in any way comparable?

User avatar
Muirium
µ

19 Feb 2015, 14:13

If activation (the key press gets detected) happens anywhere above bottoming out, it should be capsense and you've got something very nice!

As for the mods, they're in the IBM Model F "hatted" style:

Image

A popular shape before the Model M came along and redefined everything ever since.

Findecanor

19 Feb 2015, 14:30

stratokaster wrote: No, screw that. All the keys have a very distinctive shape. They are very angular, with a sharp profile.
All keys? Not just the bottom two rows?

IKSLM

19 Feb 2015, 19:19

This mysterious keyboard of yours... it seems i have one using the same "switch" but a very different layout.

Image

(with "rubber cups" removed) (ignore the sloppy lube job)
Image

User avatar
stratokaster

19 Feb 2015, 20:36

More photos...

So it's "LMM" and not "MMJ" after all. Which is about as cryptic, if you ask me.
lmm1.jpg
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These are conductive "switches" after all. The plungers have conductive pads on their feet.
lmm2.jpg
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lmm3.jpg
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By the way, the part number (E33.088.059) looks very similar to part numbers used by Acer. But I'm sure it's a coincidence.
lmm4.jpg
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Conductive pads are mounted on tiny rubber strips and they can go inside the plungers. So what happens when you press a key: you have a strong tactile bump when the rubber sleeve buckles, at the same time the conductive pad strikes the circuit board and activates the switch. But there is still about 1.5mm of travel after this point.
lmm6.jpg
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BTW, while the inclusion of a Soviet-made chip is very interesting, there is no way this keyboard is Soviet-made. I have owned a large number of Soviet-made electronic devices and I think no factory in the Soviet Union was capable of producing circuit boards of such quality.

User avatar
Muirium
µ

19 Feb 2015, 20:47

Aw! Still, it's a nice board, even without the capsense and red chic! Travel *after* the actuation point is the most important, actually the defining, characteristic of good boards vs. bad, if you ask me. Rubberdome over membrane is such a death sentence because of all the boards where mashing is the only way to type. That's just bad design. What you've found here is one of several artful ways around it.

Don't hate the domes, folks. Save it for the lousy domes!

User avatar
stratokaster

19 Feb 2015, 22:30

Speaking about Topre.

This is what I found inside the keyboard I thought was "rubber dome, but rather awesome."
rb2001.jpg
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Not too dissimilar to conductive Topre switches pictured above, isn't it?

User avatar
Muirium
µ

19 Feb 2015, 22:41

Not bad! From what I've heard, Topre didn't make conductive domes for long. But other companies have tried it, and you might have found another one of them.

User avatar
stratokaster

28 Feb 2015, 02:06

Is this what I think it is? :o Looks nice and clean!
5114973669_4.jpeg
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User avatar
scottc

28 Feb 2015, 02:11

WOW! I had no idea that IBM made Cyrillic Model Ms... :shock:

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