Beam Spring vs. Buckling Spring?

[Ace]

I couldn't find a comparison of this anywhere, so I decided to ask. How do Beam Springs feel compared to Capacitive (and membrane) Buckling Springs? I've used both Model Ms and Fs, but I haven't laid a finger on IBMs oldest beasts. I've been looking into acquiring a Beam Spring board, but want to have some sort of idea as to how it feels. I'm the type of guy who likes to type (usually for extended periods of time) on the keyboards he buys; I don't wish to own one just for the novelty of it.

I've noticed that there are a relatively small number of people who use Beam Springs; most seem to prefer Capacitive BS. Any opinion form those who've used both would be greatly appreciated.

[photekq]

I really cannot explain beamspring, other than the word magical. I can't compare it to Ms or Fs. It's just in a completely different league.

It's the ultimate clicky switch as far as I'm concerned.

[zts]

I thought that Beam Spring is a capacitive contact and that Buckling Spring uses either capacitive (F) or membrane (M) contact ... but maybe I'm wrong.

[Ace]

I thought that Beam Spring is a capacitive contact and that Buckling Spring uses either capacitive (F) or membrane (M) contact ... but maybe I'm wrong.

No, you're correct.

[Halvar]

Beam spring switches feel indeed better than buckling springs, it's really fun to type on them, On the other hand, the keyboards that have them are very high and have ancient key layouts. So I love to type on mine and use it often, but I'm still more productive with my SSK or Model F.

[photekq]

Beam spring switches feel indeed better than buckling springs, it's really fun to type on them, On the other hand, the keyboards that have them are very high and have ancient key layouts. So I love to type on mine and use it often, but I'm still more productive with my SSK or Model F.

Yes, this.

I think my dream keyboard would be a regular TKL layout beamspring keyboard with a lower profile than, say, a 3278

[zts]

I couldn't find a comparison of this anywhere, so I decided to ask. How do Beam Springs feel compared to Capacitive (and membrane) Buckling Springs? I've used both Model Ms and Fs, but I haven't laid a finger on IBMs oldest beasts. I've been looking into acquiring a Beam Spring board, but want to have some sort of idea as to how it feels. I'm the type of guy who likes to type (usually for extended periods of time) on the keyboards he buys; I don't wish to own one just for the novelty of it.

I've noticed that there are a relatively small number of people who use Beam Springs; most seem to prefer Capacitive BS. Any opinion form those who've used both would be greatly appreciated.

These two people describe it like this (http://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeybo ... pring_key/):

It feels like a.. beam spring switch. It's a bit difficult to communicate, but it's sort of like a lighter buckling spring with a more pronounced force fall-off and travel. Closer to a selectric than buckling spring, since that's what beam springs were modeled after. ...

... I'll ad that the throw of the switch (travel distance) feels a bit shorter than a buckling spring, and the click is both quieter, yet more pronounced. It has better tactility than a Model M (I've not used a Model F). I like the feeling a lot.

... and to contradict the above, I remember that I felt somewhat better tactility at the actuation point on M than on Beam, but the key travel was smoother on Beam. Both mechanisms are fascinating. The other way to look at this is from the cost reduction point of view -- a cheaper mechanism to produce replaced a more expensive one. Which one of them feels better is probably a very subjective issue. I think, once you start typing, you'll know right away if the beam spring is something for you.

[macmakkara]

I could describe it like this:

Beamsprings for me feels lot like topre with click but there is still something more magical.

PS. i have 2 Beamspring boards

[zts]

I could describe it like this:

Beamsprings for me feels lot like topre with click ...

... so I'm not alone who feels that way . But, yes, Topre in 55g feels lots like a quiet M and Beam. The F for me has a bit different feel, but that may be the result of typing on technically suspect keyboards at the time.

[andrewjoy]

For me, they feel very different. Its almost as if the beamspring floats on air , until the tactile click there is no friction whatsoever. the click is amazing, there is hardly any increased force needed to bypass it. A loverly experience all round. Compared to an M well , its no comparison. F is closer it has that crisp feel like a beam spring but it feels a bit "Less accurate" is the best way to put it .

My feelings on the M have changed since i got a decent one ( NIB SSK) i no longer think its a mushy piece of shit it just feels like a heavier F with a soft landing . I like it.

[Muirium]

Beamspring has no comparison. It's as close to buckling spring as buckling spring is to Topre: not at all! It does have the best features of both of those combined, but off in a direction all its own. Beamspring is the keyboard switch that's most like playing a piano, or a good light mechanical typewriter.

I've tried two of them so far. The first was a Great White DisplayWriter, which is bulky as all hell but feels glorious. It's not mine though:



The second was my first 3276. It arrived from the notorious Dresden Rustmaster, looking like this:



I've still work to do on it. Had it up and running for a while, but the rust was everywhere and little bits of it remain to haunt the capsense. It needs redoing from top to bottom. Oh well. Fortunately, I have this one waiting for me at my brothers, from Cindy:



As you can see, beamsprings are BIG. The switches themselves are gigantic. There's no way to wrap a keyboard around them without being as deep as a vintage typewriter. The layouts are odd, the contamination shield is disintegrated, and you need to buy a replacement controller to actually use them, so they are not for the faint of heart. But yes, the praise they get is well earned. And look at those caps!



IBM doubleshot sphericals are the best caps ever. They have a wonderful scoop to them. You always know you're on a beamspring, every little thing shouts it out at you! And then there's the solenoid…

[jacobolus]

I really cannot explain beamspring, other than the word magical. I can't compare it to Ms or Fs. It's just in a completely different league. It's the ultimate clicky switch as far as I'm concerned.

Beam spring switches feel indeed better than buckling springs, it's really fun to type on them,

Beamsprings for me feels lot like topre with click but there is still something more magical.

Its almost as if the beamspring floats on air, until the tactile click there is no friction whatsoever. the click is amazing, there is hardly any increased force needed to bypass it. A loverly experience all round. Compared to an M well, its no comparison. F is closer it has that crisp feel like a beam spring but it feels a bit "Less accurate" is the best way to put it.

Beamspring has no comparison. It's as close to buckling spring as buckling spring is to Topre: not at all! It does have the best features of both of those combined, but off in a direction all its own. Beamspring is the keyboard switch that's most like playing a piano, or a good light mechanical typewriter.

Note, YMMV. I think “ultimate clicky switch” is pushing it, and I suspect a good part of the attraction is the complete keyboard package, the keycaps, the nostalgia, the rarity, and the work required to get these working on modern machines, rather than a pure assessment of the merits of the switch feel per se.

I enjoy typing on Model F switches more than my brief experiences with beam spring switches. I personally thought the beam spring feel was pretty good, but nothing as amazing as some reviews would have you believe. Maybe after using one for more than a few minutes I’d like it better, though.

Personally, I like both the Marquardt “butterfly” beam spring switch and the Alps beam spring switch better than IBM’s beam spring. These three switches have a family resemblance, but are ultimately quite different from each other in feel.

I also like blue and amber Alps switches and SMK clicky switches better than IBM beam spring switches.

(But again, I don’t have much experience with IBM beam springs. If someone wants to give me a USB-converted beam spring keyboard, I’ll try typing on it for a few months and then get back to everyone with a fairer review. )

IBM doubleshot sphericals are the best caps ever. They have a wonderful scoop to them.

This is the truth. Fabulous keycaps.

* * *

The reason IBM beam spring switches (and similarly the Alps and Marquardt versions) feel a bit like Topre switches is that you get a bit of a “pop” on the upstroke from the spring snapping back upward. This is unlike a buckling spring switch or an Alps switch, where the upstroke is relatively smooth, or a tactile Cherry MX switch, where the switch actually sticks a bit on the upstroke as it goes past the tactile bump (the opposite of what you want). This force increase during the upstroke past the tactile/actuation point makes it a bit faster and easier to get a finger back out of a keypress and ready for pressing the same key again or another key.

[Muirium]

Switch tastes are the ultimate subjectivity. A lot of people like little tactile bumps — I know we're different kinds of people whenever I hear someone speak kindly of MX brown, the perfectly coloured switch — and they wouldn't like beamspring at all. You're not feeling out for the wee bump, here. The keys swing down with you instead, and the click is rich and furious!

Buckling spring is great, too. But Model M and F feel so close to one another once you get a shot of beamspring. They sound a bit coarse, juvenile even, too. Beamspring is another generation in spirit as well as technology.

Marquardt Butterfly sounds appealing. But only in typewriters, eh?

[seebart]

you are absolutely right jacobolus; it is the the complete keyboard package, the keycaps, the nostalgia, the rarity, and the work required to get these working on modern machines, rather than a pure assessment of the merits of the switch feel per se for me also. I find some of my "old" keyboards much more fun to work with, but also more aesthetic, not to mention the materials, the build quality. Anyone can buy a Filco etc, not too many own or care to own something like a beamspring keyboard. Nutjobs like me WANT to own one, think they hit the jackpot and get a super rare MICRO SWITCH SW-10591 instead!

[Muirium]

Feel you're up to the challenge of the Rustmaster?

[seebart]

oh I´m up for it Mu. We´ve been through this and you explained the situation. I´m not whining over here. Get that ohter one from your brother and we`ll see.

[Madhias]

I have a 3278 Beamspring, and for me it is the best clicky switch which is out there. I think Muirium once said that Beamspring is like IBM Model F/M mixed with Topre. That fits best!

Regarding ancient layout, case, etc. i thought of making a custom 3278 case. Without destroying original material it could work out. Just take the top part of the switch housing plus the switches (and caps), mount that on a plate (instead of the original bottom plate of the switch housing) and build a simple case onto that platform. It is not easy to describe, unfortunately i did not finish my CAD plans yet.

[Muirium]

Ah, custom beamsprings. The plate is definitely doable. You'd need a new PCB (or "sense card" as IBM called them) which is doable too: Wcass has done it for Model F. A bit of work but feasible. Xwhatsit's controller has you covered.

A 3278 would be a great starting point, with the extra width and switch stock…

[Touch_It]

I'll take 20! This sounds like an amazing project. I wish I had the know-how and funds to do projects.

[Ace]

Thanks for the opinions, you guys. Unfortunately, you guys did nothing short of ire me with the info. I want one of these so badly now. But I suppose that's commonplace and should be expected.

I have a 3278 Beamspring, and for me it is the best clicky switch which is out there. I think Muirium once said that Beamspring is like IBM Model F/M mixed with Topre. That fits best!

Regarding ancient layout, case, etc. i thought of making a custom 3278 case. Without destroying original material it could work out. Just take the top part of the switch housing plus the switches (and caps), mount that on a plate (instead of the original bottom plate of the switch housing) and build a simple case onto that platform. It is not easy to describe, unfortunately i did not finish my CAD plans yet.

Ah, custom beamsprings. The plate is definitely doable. You'd need a new PCB (or "sense card" as IBM called them) which is doable too: Wcass has done it for Model F. A bit of work but feasible. Xwhatsit's controller has you covered.

A 3278 would be a great starting point, with the extra width and switch stock…

About this project.........it sounds interesting, but difficult to materialize. Even if you manage to accomplish this (I have no doubt that you will ) and come up with CAD schematics, would this be feasible to get fabricated? Kuato's 3278 restoration looks fantastic, but even he said it would be difficult to do in bulk. Of course, if this theoretical, and you don't intend on getting it to group buy status, or if you don't intend on fabricating a metal case, then you can ignore this entire post.

Also, what do you think of my new profile picture?

[seebart]

Thanks for the opinions, you guys. Unfortunately, you guys did nothing short of ire me with the info. I want one of these so badly now. But I suppose that's commonplace and should be expected.

welcome to the club!

[Ace]

Anyway........……definitely keep me updated on the project. It sounds amazing.

[Redmaus]

Beamspring keycaps look very nice. Is it called spherical caps? And tripleshot? I heard one clack on youtube it did indeed sound magical. I feel still in love with the model F boards for some reason. If I were ever to come across one in the wild, I would probably convert it and use it for awhile and then sell to someone who wants it here on deskthority or trade for another model F.

Speaking of which, where do most of you find your beamsprings? IT recyclers ?

[Muirium]

Beamspring keycaps look very nice.

Yup.

Is it called spherical caps?

Yeah, the shape of them is spherical. See how rounded they are on the top? it's a 2 dimensional curved shape: like a dish, or the side of a sphere. Most caps are cylindrical, where the curve is mainly in 1 dimension instead, like the side of a cylinder.

And tripleshot?

Some beamspring caps are tripleshot. I'm lucky enough to have recently picked up a few.



Doubleshot and tripleshot refer to how the caps are made. Each shot of plastic gives a separate colour. So with doubleshot you get the cap's main colour and then another for a legend. Tripleshot gets you two different legend colours, on one cap.

I heard one clack on youtube it did indeed sound magical.

They really do. Even more so with the solenoid on!

I feel still in love with the model F boards for some reason. If I were ever to come across one in the wild, I would probably convert it and use it for awhile and then sell to someone who wants it here on deskthority or trade for another model F.

There's enough people chasing beamsprings already that you'd have a fight on your hands getting one in the first place! If you think F is where you'll end up, stick with F. They're great too, and so much smaller. Beam springs aren't for the fainthearted.

Speaking of which, where do most of you find your beamsprings? IT recyclers ?

Cindy and Ebay. One each in my case! You're better off with Cindy, but Ebay's usually closer.

[Redmaus]

Thanks for the information Muirium. Where does Cindy get her boards from? An IT recycler? There is currently a beamspring on ebay right now:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/IBM-Displaywrit ... 339da3cdd1

Although I would rather spend that money on a 4704. Is there a reason why people like the displaywriters less? At first I thought it was because they have a plastic case, but it seems I was wrong. I personally like the other boards more because the black grey and brownish keycaps look better than the white ones on the displaywriter. Also it seems the displaywriter is much bigger than the other boards.

I am thinking of getting a 4704 and putting a solenoid in it instead of the buzzer. The solenoid sounds amazing, the buzzer just seems annoying.

What do you think?

[Muirium]

I have my buzzer enabled, but the volume knob turned all the way down, which pretty much says it all.

The solenoids in beamsprings aren't unique components. Surely we can source them elsewhere besides rare keyboards? Everything with an Xwhatsit controller wants a solenoid!

[Redmaus]

I have my buzzer enabled, but the volume knob turned all the way down, which pretty much says it all.

The solenoids in beamsprings aren't unique components. Surely we can source them elsewhere besides rare keyboards? Everything with an Xwhatsit controller wants a solenoid!

Don't you need something called a solenoid driver

[Muirium]

Yes, to use a solenoid with Xwhatsit's controller, you need his separate solenoid driver board. It's a crafty analogue thing that charges up with enough power to fire those old buggers. IBM's solenoids expected something like 48 volts — which they'd get from the host over one of the bulky original cable's many lines — but USB only supplies 5v. Creativity ensues!

So my Kishy would need a solenoid driver as well as a solenoid. Right now it has neither. The buzzer works straight off the controller's header, no power boost required.

[Redmaus]

Yes, to use a solenoid with Xwhatsit's controller, you need his separate solenoid driver board. It's a crafty analogue thing that charges up with enough power to fire those old buggers. IBM's solenoids expected something like 48 volts — which they'd get from the host over one of the bulky original cable's many lines — but USB only supplies 5v. Creativity ensues!

So my Kishy would need a solenoid driver as well as a solenoid. Right now it has neither. The buzzer works straight off the controller's header, no power boost required.

Once I get my 4704 I might use the buzzer some, and then if I don't like it I will get the solenoid and solenoid driver. I heard Cindy had some solenoids. But where to get a solenoid driver?

[Mal-2]

IBM's solenoids expected something like 48 volts — which they'd get from the host over one of the bulky original cable's many lines — but USB only supplies 5v. Creativity ensues!

USB 3.1 offers either 12V or 20V at up to 5A. This may reduce the amount of creativity required in the future.