New mouse recommendations

Circlepit

19 Jun 2014, 13:47

Hi,
im searching for a new mouse that offers good quality. Im tired of cheap mice with poor quality like razer.
I had razer mice in the past and they broke really fast (double clicking, poor surface ).
I want a mouse that is ergonomic and has good quality in terms of sensor, durable buttons.
I have my eyes on the zowie FK, steelseries sensei. But after some research some logitech models are supposed to be good but i dont have any experience with logitech mice.
I also found the brand called "feenix" but im kinda suspicious that its the same like razer, expensive, good marketing but poor quality.
Thank you for the help :)

DerpyDash_xAD

19 Jun 2014, 14:01

I have a CM storm Rearper, it feels indestructable, very comfortable, if the price scares you off, get a refurb one.

Edit: IDK how good the sensor is, but I've never had a problem with it, and on max sensitivity it flies across my screen but it retains precision.

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Hypersphere

19 Jun 2014, 15:16

Sorry you've had bad experiences with Razer mice. The best mouse I have ever used is a Razer DeathAdder Black Edition. The size and shape are ideal for me, and the surface always feels dry, even after prolonged intensive use.

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cookie

19 Jun 2014, 16:50

Razer has indeed one of the the best shapes I've ever had for a mouse! But this is pretty much all it offers. I had the 2013 and the 3g. Both sucked big times when it came down to parts like microswitches and rotary encoders... Felt good during the first weeks then wear off very quickly. I used Logitech for over a decade and was very happy with the MX series, but to be totally honest, I can't stand the form anymore. If you don't mind the childish bullethole optic on a mx518, try to get one, otherwise the g400 will also be okay. The G400s looks terrible, like pretty much every single Product in the G line! I also can't really reccomend steelseries. I had a few Senseis. They felt flimsy so that I sold them. Currently I use a Microsoft Intellimouse 3. Awesome sensor and the best shape of all time but there are a few downsides. It really has a poor quality, the thumb buttons feel flimsy and cheap, the mousewheel is mushy and not precise and this thing sounds loud and hollow compared to other products.

Believe me, the perfect mouse is really hard to find, even harder if you want the color to match your white HHKB :(

Sensor, Build Quality, Shape one part always sucks. It's like moving in circles :(

Circlepit

19 Jun 2014, 17:06

I always had an optical mouse. Is a laser sensor worth trying?

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Hypersphere

19 Jun 2014, 17:17

cookie wrote:Razer has indeed one of the the best shapes I've ever had for a mouse! But this is pretty much all it offers. I had the 2013 and the 3g. Both sucked big times when it came down to parts like microswitches and rotary encoders... Felt good during the first weeks then wear off very quickly. I used Logitech for over a decade and was very happy with the MX series, but to be totally honest, I can't stand the form anymore. If you don't mind the childish bullethole optic on a mx518, try to get one, otherwise the g400 will also be okay. The G400s looks terrible, like pretty much every single Product in the G line! I also can't really reccomend steelseries. I had a few Senseis. They felt flimsy so that I sold them. Currently I use a Microsoft Intellimouse 3. Awesome sensor and the best shape of all time but there are a few downsides. It really has a poor quality, the thumb buttons feel flimsy and cheap, the mousewheel is mushy and not precise and this thing sounds loud and hollow compared to other products.

Believe me, the perfect mouse is really hard to find, even harder if you want the color to match your white HHKB :(

Sensor, Build Quality, Shape one part always sucks. It's like moving in circles :(
Maybe the particular model makes a substantial difference. I tried the Razer 2013, but I did not like it at all and sent it back to get another DA Black (one for work and one for home). I have had these for over a year, and they are still going strong. The only thing I don't like about the Razer DA Black is the braided cord -- it is a bit too stiff, and it is a dust magnet. Otherwise, the size, shape, appearance, sensor, switches, and especially the scroll wheel are are excellent. In fact, I am considering buying a couple more so that I will be able to replace them if the ones I have wear out and they discontinue the model that I like.

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cookie

19 Jun 2014, 17:37

You should do this if the DA Black Edition is the mouse you like, I bought the DA 3G from ebay with a defective mousewheel and rebuild it out of steel. I also replaced the cheapo TTC rotary encoder with a quality one by ALPS. This was by far the best mousewheel expiriance I've ever had. Tight, crisp, no wobble... perfect. Unfortunately I screw up the PBC solderin and the whole project endet in the bin. But I will start over as soon as I moved to my new apartment.

What I am trying to say, replacing the bad parts and reinforce the product here and there can do wonders!

DerpyDash_xAD

19 Jun 2014, 17:47

My alll time favorite mouse is my intellimouse 1.1, good feel, built tough, and I had no issues with it except one - the sensor was so insensitive, on max I had to move it across half my desk before it crossed my screen :(

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cookie

19 Jun 2014, 17:53

The 1.1 seems nice as well but I think it has the same Mousewheel like on the IE3. And I don't like the wheel on the IE3 :(

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Muirium
µ

19 Jun 2014, 17:58

Oh, one of these:

Image

A bit flimsy for my liking. I had its bigger brother, the original Intellimouse Explorer. Eventually broke after 5 or 6 years of use thanks to a hideous bit of internal cable routing, common on many mice: a hairpin corner right at the front before the exit hole.

Didn't cost me three and a half grand, though. But then I didn't get mine from "Doll Computer"…

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Microsoft-Intel ... B00006HYWX

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Hypersphere

19 Jun 2014, 18:44

Yes, MS made some good mice. Perhaps we could buy a breeding pair somewhere.

There have also been some Kensington models that came close to my Razer DA Black, but they all suffered from surfaces that felt clammy. Despite its smooth surface (not rubberized -- I tried this on the 2013 and didn't like it), the Razer has avoided this somehow. I wrote to Razer to ask what kind of plastic they used; they replied that it was proprietary. It certainly behaves as if it were PBT. I suppose it could be submitted for chemical analysis, or it could be chopped into bits and subjected to ordeal by drowning as is done to test keycaps.

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Muirium
µ

19 Jun 2014, 18:52

There's an acetone test for ABS:

http://deskthority.net/wiki/Keycap_cons ... etone_test

Confirming PBT seems to be harder, though.

DerpyDash_xAD

19 Jun 2014, 18:54

I've had my intellimouse for 4 years and it has survived a horrific amount of abuse - thrown, dropped, assorted liquids spilt on it - and it is still 100% operational. It is plastic, yes, but it could be iron for all the abuse it can take.

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Daniel Beardsmore

19 Jun 2014, 19:48

DerpyDash_xAD wrote:My alll time favorite mouse is my intellimouse 1.1, good feel, built tough, and I had no issues with it except one - the sensor was so insensitive, on max I had to move it across half my desk before it crossed my screen :(
That and the buggy firmware in it — only Microsoft could create a mouse that sends bad data back to the computer. It's pretty rubbish — mine from new had hard edges around the side buttons, plus the wheel can be horribly ratchety.

The advantages are that it's ambidextrous (great if your mouse hand develops twitchy nerves) and buttons 4 and 5 are on either side — with claw grip I really struggle with having both buttons on the same side.

I was looking at Roccat at one stage, but I don't trust them not to completely screw up the wheel. I've had two Logitech mice — one had a bottomless pit wheel switch (some blue right-handed thing with four buttons) and the other (a laser mouse with five buttons) is tiltwheel so middle mouse is basically useless (clicks barely register). The Microsoft Comfort Mouse 4500 lives up to its name, but the wheel is notchless so middle click is nearly impossible again.

Since most people don't even know that the wheel is a button, let alone have any idea about more than three buttons (Roccat go up to 7 but that requires custom software that I don't trust not to mess up, as Microsoft are still stuck on 5) there's little call for most mice to have a decent wheel button or more than three buttons.

Mice really suck.

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cookie

19 Jun 2014, 21:00

Man it's official! Microsoft doesn't care for pc customers anymore... I got my Xbox 360 controller today, it's build quality is amazing. Build like a tank, good switches, nice performance overall. I am so satisfied.

If they would overhaul a IE3 into something with a similar build quality like the Xbox controller, this would be my dream mouse!

Anyway, If you don't mind the slightly cheapo feel of an IE3, 1.1 or 1.2a try to get your hans on one of those!
They have by far the best sensor I've ever played with. The MX518 cones second.

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Hypersphere

19 Jun 2014, 22:38

Daniel Beardsmore wrote:
DerpyDash_xAD wrote:My alll time favorite mouse is my intellimouse 1.1, good feel, built tough, and I had no issues with it except one - the sensor was so insensitive, on max I had to move it across half my desk before it crossed my screen :(
That and the buggy firmware in it — only Microsoft could create a mouse that sends bad data back to the computer. It's pretty rubbish — mine from new had hard edges around the side buttons, plus the wheel can be horribly ratchety.

The advantages are that it's ambidextrous (great if your mouse hand develops twitchy nerves) and buttons 4 and 5 are on either side — with claw grip I really struggle with having both buttons on the same side.

I was looking at Roccat at one stage, but I don't trust them not to completely screw up the wheel. I've had two Logitech mice — one had a bottomless pit wheel switch (some blue right-handed thing with four buttons) and the other (a laser mouse with five buttons) is tiltwheel so middle mouse is basically useless (clicks barely register). The Microsoft Comfort Mouse 4500 lives up to its name, but the wheel is notchless so middle click is nearly impossible again.

Since most people don't even know that the wheel is a button, let alone have any idea about more than three buttons (Roccat go up to 7 but that requires custom software that I don't trust not to mess up, as Microsoft are still stuck on 5) there's little call for most mice to have a decent wheel button or more than three buttons.

Mice really suck.
Yes, one thing that took me a long time was evaluating the scroll wheels in various mice. I wanted a scroll wheel that worked smoothly and well without making a lot of noise, and I wanted it to be easy to click as a middle button. The logitech mice that I tried did not have scroll wheels that met all my criteria. Here again, the Razer DA Black stood out by having an excellent scroll wheel that was also easy to click as a middle button. I also liked that it was simple -- it only has left and right click along with the scroll wheel/middle click as well as two buttons on the left side that I never use. Some other highly rated mice had too many bells and whistles -- weights and counterweights, flashing lights, and a multitude of buttons that were all useless to me.

The Razer is not without its faults. The drivers that come with the Razer DA Black were absurd; I made the mistake of installing the Mac driver and it took some doing to eradicate from my system. The mouse works fine as PnP w/o the need for any drivers.

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cookie

19 Jun 2014, 23:04

Drivers are pure evil!
I once installed a logitech driver... biggest mistake ever!
The only problem I have with razer mices is that I simply can't adjust a propper DPI without drivers.
You also cant set the dpi hardware based on the mouse and then deinstall drivers (Like on a g9).

I wish I didn't failed so bad at soldering... The DA with propper omrons and apls encoder is a quite nice thing to have.

davkol

20 Jun 2014, 12:48

I'm currently using Zowie FK, but about to go back to Roccat Savu, because the new roccats feel so good. I'd even call savu my end-game mouse, if I didn't want to try the new "green-brain" Kone Pure Optical.

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cookie

20 Jun 2014, 14:15

I have a strange feeling about roccat, they rank in the same category like Razer and Steeleries... They are colorfull, loud and over the top! They tend to bullshit bingo the hell out of their products just to dazzle younger customers. And I can't stand the douchebags working for this company, I see them every day when I pass by their office to get something for lunch.

I once had a Roccat cone on my hands, it felt okay but I don't like the shape and color (It was the orange one).

davkol

20 Jun 2014, 14:25

I wouldn't care, if the recent mice didn't feel so solid and didn't support GNU/Linux so well... and yeah, they do fit in my small hands.

Circlepit

20 Jun 2014, 16:00

cookie wrote: I also can't really reccomend steelseries. I had a few Senseis.
Whats up with the sensei. I read some reviews and they seem to have a good quality, their omron switches offer a ten million click lifespan (others usually 5 mio).

I need the mouse for fast fps games, osu and work. Is a lasor sensor worth the money? On the geekhack forum they compare only mice with optical sensors, so it seems that laser is worse than optical.

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wheybags

20 Jun 2014, 16:02

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sharkoon-Firegl ... B003C4FW7C
Had for a year or two now, solid mouse, adjustable dpi, etc, also not megabux :P
A++ would recommend.
Also, it is programmable (windows only, unfortunately, but once it's programmed the sequences work on any os).

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cookie

20 Jun 2014, 16:42

@Circlepit: It's nothing really "wrong" with steelseries but for that price, they are way to flimsy. They just felt cheap to me. If I grab a mouse I don't want the scrollwheel to rattle, I don't want it to sound loud and hollow, I don't want the thumbbuttons to be mushy and imprecise, I don't want squeaky plastics. And the least I want is a driver to set up the mouse correctly :(

I see no point in using a sensei which is on par with a IE3 in build quality but tripple the price!

I mean we are talking about 50€ for the raw and 75€ for the regular sensei! That is a LOT of money for a flimsy piece of plastic!!! I got my IE3 from oversea for 18€ incl. shipping!

18 bugs for the best shaped mouse of all time, a hell of a sensor and official "Mouse Hipster" status!
The IE3 is far from perfect but I use it for quite some time now. The build quality is mediocre, it is a bit flimsy but for that price I dare not to complain.

Btw. Laser sensors are by no means better than optical, don't get fooled by big numbers! Todays sensors, with thousands of DPI capable to track perfectly while you move the mouse with 500km/h over a glas table, are far far far away from "reality" and what your body is capable to do.

This could be helpfull: http://www.overclock.net/t/951894/the-t ... ouse-guide

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Hypersphere

20 Jun 2014, 17:00

I agree about sensors. My Razer DA Black is IR at 3500 dpi. Plenty sensitive enough for anything that I do.

Circlepit

20 Jun 2014, 21:02

Where can i get the Microsoft Intellimouse 3? ON amazon the prize is 95€, its just too expensive

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Julle

20 Jun 2014, 21:57

Circlepit wrote:Where can i get the Microsoft Intellimouse 3? ON amazon the prize is 95€, its just too expensive
If you'd like a modern equivalent at a reasonable price, go for CM Storm Mizar or Alcor. They share the same shell modeled pretty much after the Intellimouse. The difference is in the sensor: Mizar has a higher DPI laser sensor, the Alcor has a 4000 DPI optical sensor. I currently own the Mizar, it's great value. The only thing I don't like about it is the tacky LED logo, which can be turned off, though.

http://gaming.coolermaster.com/en/products/mice/mizar/
http://gaming.coolermaster.com/en/products/mice/alcor/

ShawnMeg

20 Jun 2014, 22:15

I've enjoyed the Logitech mice I had. Previously, I used one an MX600. I has backward/forward buttons, and volume up/down. The buttons are customizable. The keyboard broke down, and Logitech had pretty good customer service. They exchanged it for a MK710 Keyboard/Mouse. The second Logitech mouse is the Marathon, which loses the addtional buttons for volume up/down, but has a hyperscroll feature, and long battery life (of up to 3 years). I prefer the MX600, though. I also have a Logitech Trackball m570 that's still in its box.

Circlepit

21 Jun 2014, 12:03

cookie wrote: Btw. Laser sensors are by no means better than optical, don't get fooled by big numbers! Todays sensors, with thousands of DPI capable to track perfectly while you move the mouse with 500km/h over a glas table, are far far far away from "reality" and what your body is capable to do.

This could be helpfull: http://www.overclock.net/t/951894/the-t ... ouse-guide
Thank you. This was really helpful. Im sticking to the optical sensors since i always used these andd the lasor technique is not as good as optical yet.

Does someone have experience with the steelseries rival, zowie ec1/2 evo or the corsair m45?
As mentioned earlier i used razer mice in the past and set the DPI to 1800, i wonder how to use the zowie mice because they have 3 fixed DPI levels.

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cookie

21 Jun 2014, 16:20

@Circlepit: Whatever you do, don't pay 95€ for an IE3... this is ridiculously overpriced! If you game a lot of FPS, a sensor without acceleration would be preferable. You should also answer a few questions yourself.
Do you play with low, middle or high sensitivity?
How do you grip your mouse? Claw, Palm, Fingertip?
Do you prefere a light mouse or a heavy one?
Do you want to switch between DPI?
How many mousebuttons do you need?

Take me as an example, I am a verry low sensitivity palm grip guy. I play exclusevly with 400DPI, I need a total of 5 mouse buttons and prefere light mices. My hand are quite big and I am right handed. And I only play on cloth mousepads.

Good mices for me would be: IE3, Razer DA and MX518

If you are a totally different guy than me, than my reccomendations are totally useless for you :)

Circlepit

21 Jun 2014, 17:08

Since you got a really cheap IE3, can you give me tips where i can get one cheaper than 95?
For now i stick with the IE3

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