Tokyo60 v1 HHKB-like Keyboard Kit
- Hypersphere
- Location: USA
- Main keyboard: Silenced & Lubed HHKB (Black)
- Main mouse: Logitech G403
- Favorite switch: Topre 45/55g Silenced; Various Alps; IBM Model F
- DT Pro Member: 0038
Introduction
The Tokyo60 v1 kit provides a relatively easy way to build a custom keyboard for people who lack the skill or desire to do any soldering. The keyboard has a 60% form factor with 60 keys in the HHKB layout. The kit includes an anodized aluminum case with built-in plate for mounting the switches, hot-swappable (solderless) completely programmable (QMK) printed circuit board (PCB), mini-USB cable, mounting screws, silicone rubber feet, dye-sublimated keycaps (optionally), and a choice of Cherry mx or clone switches (optionally). The v2 kit includes an option for an acrylic diffuser for visualizing RBG underglow effects. The kits are available on Massdrop.
Packaging
The kit arrives attractively packaged in a white cardboard box that can be used to store the assembled keyboard when not in use.
Assembly
Although assembly is straightforward, it would have helped to have printed instructions included with the kit. However, eventually Massdrop posted some abbreviated instructions that were helpful.
Briefly, the steps are as follows: (1) attach the stabilizers for the left Enter, Left Shift, and Spacebar to the PCB; (2) insert 3-4 switches into opposite corners of the top case/plate; (3) invert the case and gently press the PCB onto the switch pins – this serves to align the PCB with the plate; (4) screw the PCB to the top case/plate, but only partially tighten the screws to allow the remaining switches to align properly when inserted; (5) turn the assembly right side up and carefully insert the remaining switches through the top case/plate and into the PCB; (6) turn the assembly over again to tighten the PCB screws and to screw the bottom case onto the top case/plate; (7) add the supplied silicone feet or add your own according to the typing angle desired; (8) press the keycaps onto the switch stems.
Assembly Notes
1. Do not over-tighten screws! This can result in stripping the threads.
2. To quieten stabilizer rattle, I suggest lubing them. I use Super Lube 21010 synthetic grease.
3. When inserting switches into the PCB, be sure that each switch is oriented correctly so that the metal legs are aligned with the hot-swap holes. The Esc and #1 switches are mounted upside-down to allow for the mini-USB connector on that corner of the PCB.
4. Insert each switch loosely and gently maneuver it so that the metal legs find their way into the hot-swap receptacles before gently pressing the switch into place. Finish installing each switch by pressing firmly to be sure the switch housing is flush with the metal plate.
5. Test each switch before installing the next one to be sure it is making proper electrical contact. I find it helpful to use the free software, “Switch Hitter” (for Windows) from EliteKeyboards. This shows an image of a keyboard with each key lighting up as the stem is pressed. The software will also flag keys that have “chatter”. If the switch test is abnormal, first be sure that the switch is properly seated. If an abnormal result persists, remove the switch and check for bent metal legs. If the legs are bent, straighten them with small needle-nose pliers, carefully reinsert the switch, and test again. It might be necessary to discard the switch and replace it with a new one. An easy way to remove a switch is to invert the board and push on the center plastic post with a BIC pen or similar tool.
Programming
The Tokyo60 keyboard is completely programmable. Every key can be remapped to anything the user desires using QMK firmware:
https://qmk.fm/keyboards/
https://github.com/qmk/qmk_firmware/tre ... ds/tokyo60
Complete programmability is a great feature in a keyboard. I believe that all new keyboards should be completely programmable using firmware such as TMK or QMK. However, I did not need to take advantage of this feature on the Tokyo60, because the default layout was already my favorite: HHKB.
Finished Product
An image of my assembled keyboard is shown below:
The spacebar and modifiers are blank black PBT in Cherry profile from Imsto. The alpha keys are black on blue dye-sublimated PBT from Imsto. The Fn key is a blank yellow PBT keycap from Originative.
Originally, I had installed 65g purple Zealios, but I decided to remove these and install 67g blue Zilent switches (also from Zeal PC).
Impressions and Conclusions
My first impressions of the Tokyo60 v1 kit were negative. However, in retrospect, this was due in part to my not taking sufficient care when installing the switches. During my first attempt, I had a number of seemingly dead switches owing to the fact that I had bent the metal legs during installation. However, after replacing the damaged purple Zealio 65g switches with Cherry mx clear switches that I had on hand, I was able to get all the keys operating correctly.
Initially, I also did not particularly like the sound or feel of the keyboard. These attributes improved markedly after removing all the switches and replacing them with blue Zilent 67g switches. The keyboard is now extremely quiet. Moreover, the feel of the board is quite refined – a pleasant surprise after negative experiences with most Cherry mx or mx-clone keyboards.
There are still a few minor glitches and some concerns. For example, during normal typing, I get occasional unwanted spaces – this is probably due to having the same weight of switch in the spacebar as in all the other switches. I might go back and install a heavier switch under the spacebar or change my typing habits to avoid resting my thumbs too heavily on the spacebar.
In addition, although the keys are largely quiet during normal operation, an exception is the Return key – the keycap seems to contact the plate only on this key. I might try filing down the Return keycap or installing a different brand in this location.
Finally, during the first two rounds of switch replacements, removing a switch from the top sometimes resulted in pulling off the top housing, and removing a keycap sometimes pulled the switch out of its socket. However, these problems can be circumvented by removing the switches by pushing them out from the bottom, although of course this entails removing the bottom part of the case.
Overall, after a rocky beginning and two rounds of changing switches, I am now quite pleased with the Tokyo60 keyboard. It has many of the features I prefer, including a 60% form factor, HHKB layout, dye-sublimated PBT keycaps, and a hefty attractive case. I am also an advocate of complete programmability, although I did not need this feature, because the default configuration was already my preferred HHKB layout. The hot-swappable PCB in this kit affords a good way for a novice to build a keyboard and to be able to swap out switches without desoldering and resoldering. My former reservations about the Tokyo60 keyboard kit have been largely addressed, and I am now able to give it a high recommendation.
On the other hand, the Tokyo60 keyboard kit is rather expensive, and the cost escalates depending on extras such as replacement keycaps and switches. Although the kit can result in a highly serviceable HHKB-like keyboard, its final cost can exceed that of a genuine HHKB Pro 2, and it will not likely replace the Fujitsu Topre-switch model as my daily driver.
Additional Comments on Switches
Zeal PC blue Zilent 67g switches are the first Cherry mx-type switches I have liked. I have tried many mx switches, including Cherry red, black, brown, clear, blue, and green; Cherry vintage black; Gateron yellow; and Zealio purple 65g.
Up until now, my favorite switches included 45g Topre, vintage blue or white “pine” Alps, and IBM Model F capacitive buckling spring. I am now inclined to add 67g Zilents to the list.
The tactility and weight of blue Zilent 67g switches are ideal, and there is only a hint of scratchiness that becomes unnoticeable after typing for a while. The switches are internally silenced on both the downstroke and the upstroke. There is neither a click nor a clack with each keystroke, but the switches do not feel mushy. There is a decent amount of tactile feedback – more than with mx browns but without the heavy end-stroke cushion of mx clears. A similar silencing principle is used in Cherry mx silent red or black switches, but unlike the Zilent switches, the silent Cherry switches are linear and non-tactile. Matias “Quiet Click” switches are also silenced on both the upstroke and downstroke, but they rattle; consequently, they are much noisier than Zilents.
For me, the Zilent 67g switches made all the difference in the sound and feel of the Tokyo60 keyboard. I highly recommend the combination of the Tokyo60 keyboard kit with Zilent 67g switches. The only downside is the relatively high price of Zilents. However, they are newly on the market, and with increased adoption, the price should decrease.
The Tokyo60 v1 kit provides a relatively easy way to build a custom keyboard for people who lack the skill or desire to do any soldering. The keyboard has a 60% form factor with 60 keys in the HHKB layout. The kit includes an anodized aluminum case with built-in plate for mounting the switches, hot-swappable (solderless) completely programmable (QMK) printed circuit board (PCB), mini-USB cable, mounting screws, silicone rubber feet, dye-sublimated keycaps (optionally), and a choice of Cherry mx or clone switches (optionally). The v2 kit includes an option for an acrylic diffuser for visualizing RBG underglow effects. The kits are available on Massdrop.
Packaging
The kit arrives attractively packaged in a white cardboard box that can be used to store the assembled keyboard when not in use.
Assembly
Although assembly is straightforward, it would have helped to have printed instructions included with the kit. However, eventually Massdrop posted some abbreviated instructions that were helpful.
Briefly, the steps are as follows: (1) attach the stabilizers for the left Enter, Left Shift, and Spacebar to the PCB; (2) insert 3-4 switches into opposite corners of the top case/plate; (3) invert the case and gently press the PCB onto the switch pins – this serves to align the PCB with the plate; (4) screw the PCB to the top case/plate, but only partially tighten the screws to allow the remaining switches to align properly when inserted; (5) turn the assembly right side up and carefully insert the remaining switches through the top case/plate and into the PCB; (6) turn the assembly over again to tighten the PCB screws and to screw the bottom case onto the top case/plate; (7) add the supplied silicone feet or add your own according to the typing angle desired; (8) press the keycaps onto the switch stems.
Assembly Notes
1. Do not over-tighten screws! This can result in stripping the threads.
2. To quieten stabilizer rattle, I suggest lubing them. I use Super Lube 21010 synthetic grease.
3. When inserting switches into the PCB, be sure that each switch is oriented correctly so that the metal legs are aligned with the hot-swap holes. The Esc and #1 switches are mounted upside-down to allow for the mini-USB connector on that corner of the PCB.
4. Insert each switch loosely and gently maneuver it so that the metal legs find their way into the hot-swap receptacles before gently pressing the switch into place. Finish installing each switch by pressing firmly to be sure the switch housing is flush with the metal plate.
5. Test each switch before installing the next one to be sure it is making proper electrical contact. I find it helpful to use the free software, “Switch Hitter” (for Windows) from EliteKeyboards. This shows an image of a keyboard with each key lighting up as the stem is pressed. The software will also flag keys that have “chatter”. If the switch test is abnormal, first be sure that the switch is properly seated. If an abnormal result persists, remove the switch and check for bent metal legs. If the legs are bent, straighten them with small needle-nose pliers, carefully reinsert the switch, and test again. It might be necessary to discard the switch and replace it with a new one. An easy way to remove a switch is to invert the board and push on the center plastic post with a BIC pen or similar tool.
Programming
The Tokyo60 keyboard is completely programmable. Every key can be remapped to anything the user desires using QMK firmware:
https://qmk.fm/keyboards/
https://github.com/qmk/qmk_firmware/tre ... ds/tokyo60
Complete programmability is a great feature in a keyboard. I believe that all new keyboards should be completely programmable using firmware such as TMK or QMK. However, I did not need to take advantage of this feature on the Tokyo60, because the default layout was already my favorite: HHKB.
Finished Product
An image of my assembled keyboard is shown below:
The spacebar and modifiers are blank black PBT in Cherry profile from Imsto. The alpha keys are black on blue dye-sublimated PBT from Imsto. The Fn key is a blank yellow PBT keycap from Originative.
Originally, I had installed 65g purple Zealios, but I decided to remove these and install 67g blue Zilent switches (also from Zeal PC).
Impressions and Conclusions
My first impressions of the Tokyo60 v1 kit were negative. However, in retrospect, this was due in part to my not taking sufficient care when installing the switches. During my first attempt, I had a number of seemingly dead switches owing to the fact that I had bent the metal legs during installation. However, after replacing the damaged purple Zealio 65g switches with Cherry mx clear switches that I had on hand, I was able to get all the keys operating correctly.
Initially, I also did not particularly like the sound or feel of the keyboard. These attributes improved markedly after removing all the switches and replacing them with blue Zilent 67g switches. The keyboard is now extremely quiet. Moreover, the feel of the board is quite refined – a pleasant surprise after negative experiences with most Cherry mx or mx-clone keyboards.
There are still a few minor glitches and some concerns. For example, during normal typing, I get occasional unwanted spaces – this is probably due to having the same weight of switch in the spacebar as in all the other switches. I might go back and install a heavier switch under the spacebar or change my typing habits to avoid resting my thumbs too heavily on the spacebar.
In addition, although the keys are largely quiet during normal operation, an exception is the Return key – the keycap seems to contact the plate only on this key. I might try filing down the Return keycap or installing a different brand in this location.
Finally, during the first two rounds of switch replacements, removing a switch from the top sometimes resulted in pulling off the top housing, and removing a keycap sometimes pulled the switch out of its socket. However, these problems can be circumvented by removing the switches by pushing them out from the bottom, although of course this entails removing the bottom part of the case.
Overall, after a rocky beginning and two rounds of changing switches, I am now quite pleased with the Tokyo60 keyboard. It has many of the features I prefer, including a 60% form factor, HHKB layout, dye-sublimated PBT keycaps, and a hefty attractive case. I am also an advocate of complete programmability, although I did not need this feature, because the default configuration was already my preferred HHKB layout. The hot-swappable PCB in this kit affords a good way for a novice to build a keyboard and to be able to swap out switches without desoldering and resoldering. My former reservations about the Tokyo60 keyboard kit have been largely addressed, and I am now able to give it a high recommendation.
On the other hand, the Tokyo60 keyboard kit is rather expensive, and the cost escalates depending on extras such as replacement keycaps and switches. Although the kit can result in a highly serviceable HHKB-like keyboard, its final cost can exceed that of a genuine HHKB Pro 2, and it will not likely replace the Fujitsu Topre-switch model as my daily driver.
Additional Comments on Switches
Zeal PC blue Zilent 67g switches are the first Cherry mx-type switches I have liked. I have tried many mx switches, including Cherry red, black, brown, clear, blue, and green; Cherry vintage black; Gateron yellow; and Zealio purple 65g.
Up until now, my favorite switches included 45g Topre, vintage blue or white “pine” Alps, and IBM Model F capacitive buckling spring. I am now inclined to add 67g Zilents to the list.
The tactility and weight of blue Zilent 67g switches are ideal, and there is only a hint of scratchiness that becomes unnoticeable after typing for a while. The switches are internally silenced on both the downstroke and the upstroke. There is neither a click nor a clack with each keystroke, but the switches do not feel mushy. There is a decent amount of tactile feedback – more than with mx browns but without the heavy end-stroke cushion of mx clears. A similar silencing principle is used in Cherry mx silent red or black switches, but unlike the Zilent switches, the silent Cherry switches are linear and non-tactile. Matias “Quiet Click” switches are also silenced on both the upstroke and downstroke, but they rattle; consequently, they are much noisier than Zilents.
For me, the Zilent 67g switches made all the difference in the sound and feel of the Tokyo60 keyboard. I highly recommend the combination of the Tokyo60 keyboard kit with Zilent 67g switches. The only downside is the relatively high price of Zilents. However, they are newly on the market, and with increased adoption, the price should decrease.
- chuckdee
- Location: USA
- Main keyboard: Clueboard/RS Ver.B
- Main mouse: Logitech g900
- Favorite switch: Cherry MX Brown
- DT Pro Member: 0151
I was in on the buy also, and I think that Massdrop and the designer could have done a lot to make it easier. Having instructions would be nice, and even a cheap switch puller included would have been a good thing to include. I had the same problem as you with switches not working, but for a completely different reason that could have been easily overcome with instructions, or the screw holes being circled on the silkscreen. The board bends without all 6 screws installed- two that are relatively invisible on the all black board. Because of the fact that one of these switches was not installed, my 6-9 keys were initially not working. I contacted them and RMA'd the board before someone else had the same problem (\u\yanfali on reddit), and we figured it wasn't coincidence. Installing that screw and then holding the board as I pressed in the switches fixed the issue.
As far as impressions other than that, it is a very nice board for a very reasonable price. I'm using Kailh Speed Coppers and I'd forgotten how much I liked them. I need to figure out my final layout, but I'm very satisfied with the purchase- so much so that I'm planning to get a bare r2 (that Ink color is too nice to pass up).
As far as impressions other than that, it is a very nice board for a very reasonable price. I'm using Kailh Speed Coppers and I'd forgotten how much I liked them. I need to figure out my final layout, but I'm very satisfied with the purchase- so much so that I'm planning to get a bare r2 (that Ink color is too nice to pass up).
It's not that expensive at only $160 for the purchase of a bare tokyo60 with PCB for a CNC anodized aluminum case. The only add-on I'm getting for r2 is the acrylic that was added, for $12.Hypersphere wrote: ↑Introduction
On the other hand, the Tokyo60 keyboard kit is rather expensive, and the cost escalates depending on extras such as replacement keycaps and switches. Although the kit can result in a highly serviceable HHKB-like keyboard, its final cost can exceed that of a genuine HHKB Pro 2, and it will not likely replace the Fujitsu Topre-switch model as my daily driver.
- Hypersphere
- Location: USA
- Main keyboard: Silenced & Lubed HHKB (Black)
- Main mouse: Logitech G403
- Favorite switch: Topre 45/55g Silenced; Various Alps; IBM Model F
- DT Pro Member: 0038
@chuckdee: Good point about the base price for the Tokyo60 kit. Mine only seemed expensive because I ended up replacing the original switches and keycaps, and it required two sets of caps to get the color combination I wanted.
- cookie
- Location: Hamburg, Germany
- Main keyboard: HHKB Pro 2
- Main mouse: MX Master
- Favorite switch: Topre
- DT Pro Member: -
I have mine sitting on my desk since the first drop, still haven't figured out what I am going to do with it.
Caps are on their way but there is still to decide what switches I am going to use, I opt for mx silent red (pink) since their damening is much better than the gaterons.
I think it's a very decent board so far, I have to finally put it together.
My favorite switches are Topre 45g, for years now. I am curios if I will get used to a MX board again.
Caps are on their way but there is still to decide what switches I am going to use, I opt for mx silent red (pink) since their damening is much better than the gaterons.
I think it's a very decent board so far, I have to finally put it together.
My favorite switches are Topre 45g, for years now. I am curios if I will get used to a MX board again.
- matt3o
- -[°_°]-
- Location: Italy
- Main keyboard: WhiteFox
- Main mouse: Anywhere MX
- Favorite switch: Anything, really
- DT Pro Member: 0030
- Contact:
- Hypersphere
- Location: USA
- Main keyboard: Silenced & Lubed HHKB (Black)
- Main mouse: Logitech G403
- Favorite switch: Topre 45/55g Silenced; Various Alps; IBM Model F
- DT Pro Member: 0038
Usually, I do not like Cherry mx or its clones. However, I like the Zilent 67g switches. Moreover, I have recently received a sample of several types of ZealPC switches, including an assortment of the new v2 Zilents. The v2 Zilents have a more pronounced tactility than the v1 switches. They are also available in a heavier 78g variety. They are much nicer than mx Clear switches, very quiet, and their tactile event is at the top of the downstroke. They are reminiscent of Topre switches.
However, I am typing this on a brand-new Realforce TKL R2 PFU special edition with 45g silenced Topre switches. The typing experience on this board is elegant and refined. The keyboard looks, feels, and sounds great. Now, all my other keyboards (except my R1 RFs and my HHKBs) feel crude by comparison.
Nevertheless, I've found that there is something to like about almost any keyboard. At the very least, keeping a keyboard rotation provides reminders of how great the RF board is.
However, I am typing this on a brand-new Realforce TKL R2 PFU special edition with 45g silenced Topre switches. The typing experience on this board is elegant and refined. The keyboard looks, feels, and sounds great. Now, all my other keyboards (except my R1 RFs and my HHKBs) feel crude by comparison.
Nevertheless, I've found that there is something to like about almost any keyboard. At the very least, keeping a keyboard rotation provides reminders of how great the RF board is.
- cookie
- Location: Hamburg, Germany
- Main keyboard: HHKB Pro 2
- Main mouse: MX Master
- Favorite switch: Topre
- DT Pro Member: -
I have nothing to swtich to yet beside my old FaceU Poker thingy, which I never use. And the Notebook keyboard, which I mostly avoid even though it's the last good thinkpad keyboard
@Hypersphere the Zeal switches sound promising but I think 67g are a bit heavy on my hands. I'll definitely experiment a bit.
Thankfuly the Tokyo 60 has a solderless system!
- Hypersphere
- Location: USA
- Main keyboard: Silenced & Lubed HHKB (Black)
- Main mouse: Logitech G403
- Favorite switch: Topre 45/55g Silenced; Various Alps; IBM Model F
- DT Pro Member: 0038
@cookie: The 67g Zeal switches actually feel rather light to me. Zeal's numbers refer to bottom-out force rather than actuation force. The actuation force is much less, although I have not yet seen any force-diplacement curves for their switches.
- cookie
- Location: Hamburg, Germany
- Main keyboard: HHKB Pro 2
- Main mouse: MX Master
- Favorite switch: Topre
- DT Pro Member: -
I am really considering, but I read that their dampening isn't the best compared to genuine cherry silents.Hypersphere wrote: ↑16 Jan 2019, 21:31@cookie: The 67g Zeal switches actually feel rather light to me. Zeal's numbers refer to bottom-out force rather than actuation force. The actuation force is much less, although I have not yet seen any force-diplacement curves for their switches.
Do you know a good source to buy the 67g Zilents?
Cheers mate!
- Muirium
- µ
- Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
- Main keyboard: HHKB Type-S with Bluetooth by Hasu
- Main mouse: Apple Magic Mouse
- Favorite switch: Gotta Try 'Em All
- DT Pro Member: µ
Hey Cookie! Regarding Cherry silenced, I requested those on the Filco I won at the DTAs. Here’s a video review, where i pit them against Topre:
viewtopic.php?f=45&t=20371
I was flying out the next day so the video is anything but well produced! But in brief I do quite like them. Not as smooth as Topre, but with the right stabilisers they are just as quiet as Type S.
viewtopic.php?f=45&t=20371
I was flying out the next day so the video is anything but well produced! But in brief I do quite like them. Not as smooth as Topre, but with the right stabilisers they are just as quiet as Type S.
- _PixelNinja
- Main keyboard: RAMA M60-A
- Main mouse: LOGITECH G102 White
- Favorite switch: C=Q/V=ε(A/t)
- DT Pro Member: -
Cookie,
As of now you'll be hard pressed to find the Zilent V2s elsewhere than Zeal's store (brace yourself for that non-GB price). If you are looking for V1s they are now discontinued, so your best bet would be the second hand market.
As of now you'll be hard pressed to find the Zilent V2s elsewhere than Zeal's store (brace yourself for that non-GB price). If you are looking for V1s they are now discontinued, so your best bet would be the second hand market.
- cookie
- Location: Hamburg, Germany
- Main keyboard: HHKB Pro 2
- Main mouse: MX Master
- Favorite switch: Topre
- DT Pro Member: -
Hey Mu!
I'll check out the video soon, I am a bit curios to hear your actual voice
I wonder why I never win anything... Maybe I'll have better luck next time.
Actually I do aim for something well silenced with lettered caps that I can carry around. I never had the chance to compare my silenced HHKB against a Type-S so I can't tell how good or terrible the sound actually is. I had some "indirect" complains at my last company about the sound, but that was my non dampened Pro1. On February I am going to start in a brand new company as an external software service provider, therefore I need something less notable than a blank HHKB. Even though people react very positive, some think it's a pretty foolish thing for a professional to have (illiterate dorks!).
@ PixelNinja
Oh god! You were right, 12 bucks for 10 mx clones... times have really changed!
I wonder what makes them so pricey. I am not sure about the tactility of mx switches, I always liked the mx reds but after years and years of massive Topre fanboyism they feel very scratchy to me. I think I'll try silent reds out first. They are decenlty priced on kbdfans.cn.
I'll check out the video soon, I am a bit curios to hear your actual voice
I wonder why I never win anything... Maybe I'll have better luck next time.
Actually I do aim for something well silenced with lettered caps that I can carry around. I never had the chance to compare my silenced HHKB against a Type-S so I can't tell how good or terrible the sound actually is. I had some "indirect" complains at my last company about the sound, but that was my non dampened Pro1. On February I am going to start in a brand new company as an external software service provider, therefore I need something less notable than a blank HHKB. Even though people react very positive, some think it's a pretty foolish thing for a professional to have (illiterate dorks!).
@ PixelNinja
Oh god! You were right, 12 bucks for 10 mx clones... times have really changed!
I wonder what makes them so pricey. I am not sure about the tactility of mx switches, I always liked the mx reds but after years and years of massive Topre fanboyism they feel very scratchy to me. I think I'll try silent reds out first. They are decenlty priced on kbdfans.cn.
- _PixelNinja
- Main keyboard: RAMA M60-A
- Main mouse: LOGITECH G102 White
- Favorite switch: C=Q/V=ε(A/t)
- DT Pro Member: -
I can't speak for Zilent V2s — which I'll try if and when the price comes down — but I have lubed Zilent V1 stems in Cherry housings on my RAMA M60-A. They do have somewhat of a thock to them whilst being on the smooth side of things. I wasn't sure what to think at first but after breaking them in I am slowly growing to like 'em.cookie wrote: ↑17 Jan 2019, 01:06@ PixelNinja
Oh god! You were right, 12 bucks for 10 mx clones... times have really changed!
I wonder what makes them so pricey. I am not sure about the tactility of mx switches, I always liked the mx reds but after years and years of massive Topre fanboyism they feel very scratchy to me. I think I'll try silent reds out first. They are decenlty priced on kbdfans.cn.
For what it's worth, Zeal's silent switches have smaller and slightly harder dampeners than their Cherry counterparts, which some prefer since they tend to feel less mushy upon bottoming out. But as always deciding on that is a matter of getting one's hands on some and trying them out.
So many switches; so little time...
- Hypersphere
- Location: USA
- Main keyboard: Silenced & Lubed HHKB (Black)
- Main mouse: Logitech G403
- Favorite switch: Topre 45/55g Silenced; Various Alps; IBM Model F
- DT Pro Member: 0038
I'd encourage Zeal PC to lower the prices on their Zilent switches. If they have not done so already, they should at least offer a deep discount to some keyboard manufacturers in order to get Zilent-equipped keyboards into the hands of customers at reasonable prices. I think if more people could try them, the popularity of the switch would really take off. While they can't rival silenced Topre switches, I think that the Zilent switches are the best thing of their kind in the mx world.
- chuckdee
- Location: USA
- Main keyboard: Clueboard/RS Ver.B
- Main mouse: Logitech g900
- Favorite switch: Cherry MX Brown
- DT Pro Member: 0151
I think that people have questioned and debated him about his prices (and some have shamed him, hoping that works). I think he's satisfied with his prices and the scope of his penetration into the market.
- _PixelNinja
- Main keyboard: RAMA M60-A
- Main mouse: LOGITECH G102 White
- Favorite switch: C=Q/V=ε(A/t)
- DT Pro Member: -
The popularity took off ages ago — Zeal's switches are very well known within the community. Love him or hate him he knows what he's doing with his products.Hypersphere wrote: ↑17 Jan 2019, 21:53I think if more people could try them, the popularity of the switch would really take off.
- abrahamstechnology
- Location: United States
- Main keyboard: Laser with SMK Cherry mount
- Main mouse: Mitsumi ECM-S3902
- Favorite switch: Alps and Alps clones
- DT Pro Member: 0212
I'm considering using Zilents in one of my G81 refits, but I don't know if it's worth the investment.
- cookie
- Location: Hamburg, Germany
- Main keyboard: HHKB Pro 2
- Main mouse: MX Master
- Favorite switch: Topre
- DT Pro Member: -
Pah, only noobs bottom out! It's disgusting!_PixelNinja wrote: ↑17 Jan 2019, 18:53For what it's worth, Zeal's silent switches have smaller and slightly harder dampeners than their Cherry counterparts, which some prefer since they tend to feel less mushy upon bottoming out.
Ohh wait, all I do is bottoming out, but Topres are made the way that you have to, so jokes on you
Fun aside, I don't know how the mushyness compares to my HHKB but I think that I'll actually like it as long as it's silent
But the prices shocked me quite a bit, I've never dreamed of a day where cherry clones will be more desirable and expensive than geniune MX ones
Why would you shame Zeal? A product is only worth what people are willing to pay and if he found the sweet spot for his switches, good for him.
- _PixelNinja
- Main keyboard: RAMA M60-A
- Main mouse: LOGITECH G102 White
- Favorite switch: C=Q/V=ε(A/t)
- DT Pro Member: -
Cookie,
If you would like to get an approximate idea on how Zilent V1s can sound (obviously depending on the many factors going into the keyboard build/configuration) when broken in and tuned up, in my opinion these two videos do a rather good job at that:
- Zephyr Sound & Typing Test with GMK Keycaps
- Leopold FC980M with 67g Zilents - Typing Test
If you are shocked at the price of Zilents relative to Cherry switches, be happy to have missed the Holy Panda craze
If you would like to get an approximate idea on how Zilent V1s can sound (obviously depending on the many factors going into the keyboard build/configuration) when broken in and tuned up, in my opinion these two videos do a rather good job at that:
- Zephyr Sound & Typing Test with GMK Keycaps
- Leopold FC980M with 67g Zilents - Typing Test
If you are shocked at the price of Zilents relative to Cherry switches, be happy to have missed the Holy Panda craze
- cookie
- Location: Hamburg, Germany
- Main keyboard: HHKB Pro 2
- Main mouse: MX Master
- Favorite switch: Topre
- DT Pro Member: -
I've missed quite a bit lately, I don't know if I should be worried or happy about it?
The last thing I found quite interesting was the kailh box switches with this quite new mechanism to make them tactile.
That was something new, something refreshing but I didn't had anything to test them on.
I have no clue what was so special about the Holy Pandas? I believe the color was kewl, so people went crazy about it
I've settled for mx silent reds since I believe their dampening is miles away from Zilents. A soon as I have my keyboard ready I'll report how it is
The last thing I found quite interesting was the kailh box switches with this quite new mechanism to make them tactile.
That was something new, something refreshing but I didn't had anything to test them on.
I have no clue what was so special about the Holy Pandas? I believe the color was kewl, so people went crazy about it
I've settled for mx silent reds since I believe their dampening is miles away from Zilents. A soon as I have my keyboard ready I'll report how it is
- Muirium
- µ
- Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
- Main keyboard: HHKB Type-S with Bluetooth by Hasu
- Main mouse: Apple Magic Mouse
- Favorite switch: Gotta Try 'Em All
- DT Pro Member: µ
Something you missed was the Boxpocalypse:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=19509
I wouldn’t risk using any of those murderous wee buggers, no matter how much Elrick swears by them!
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=19509
I wouldn’t risk using any of those murderous wee buggers, no matter how much Elrick swears by them!
- Hypersphere
- Location: USA
- Main keyboard: Silenced & Lubed HHKB (Black)
- Main mouse: Logitech G403
- Favorite switch: Topre 45/55g Silenced; Various Alps; IBM Model F
- DT Pro Member: 0038
What don't you like about the damping in the Zilent switches? Comparing them with Cherry silent reds is somewhat apples vs. oranges, because silent reds are damped linear and Zilents are damped tactile. Zilents are also available in V1 (less pronounced tactility) and V2 (more pronounced tactility), and each version comes in 4 different weights (62, 65, 67, and 78g). Note that Zeal switch weights refer to the bottom-out force rather than the actuation force.
- cookie
- Location: Hamburg, Germany
- Main keyboard: HHKB Pro 2
- Main mouse: MX Master
- Favorite switch: Topre
- DT Pro Member: -
Ohh god, I've prepared a set of dev/tty caps to moung on my latest cherry board, I am blown away by the quality and if something would happen to them I'd be very sad!Muirium wrote: ↑20 Jan 2019, 16:39Something you missed was the Boxpocalypse:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=19509
I wouldn’t risk using any of those murderous wee buggers, no matter how much Elrick swears by them!
Nono don't get me wrong, I am not speaking about the way the switches operate (linear vs tactile). I am refereing to "how" they are internally dampened. It's hard to explain but it seems that cherry will always be silent no matter in what angle you hit the switch unlike Zelios.Hypersphere wrote: ↑20 Jan 2019, 17:27What don't you like about the damping in the Zilent switches? Comparing them with Cherry silent reds is somewhat apples vs. oranges, because silent reds are damped linear and Zilents are damped tactile. Zilents are also available in V1 (less pronounced tactility) and V2 (more pronounced tactility), and each version comes in 4 different weights (62, 65, 67, and 78g). Note that Zeal switch weights refer to the bottom-out force rather than the actuation force.
I just found this video I base my assumption on, he compares it with a gateron not with a zilent but I've read somewhere else that they are pretty much identical internally (at least the Zilent V1, I don't know what the difference between V1 and V2 is). Another thing is the price, 12$ for 10 mx clones is quite hefty. I get 10 genuine cherrys for 5$.
I am a sucker for silent keyboards
- Muirium
- µ
- Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
- Main keyboard: HHKB Type-S with Bluetooth by Hasu
- Main mouse: Apple Magic Mouse
- Favorite switch: Gotta Try 'Em All
- DT Pro Member: µ
I can vouch for MX silent reds. They’re very quiet indeed on bottom and topping out. I didn’t notice any problems with off-axis presses, either.
You saw my Filco review, my main complaint was that they’re still a bit creaky and rough in comparison to the gold standard of silky smooth: Topre, in the middle of the stroke. MX is like Alps that way: some individual switches are worse than others. I think it was the End key in particular that liked to creak at me!
Mind, a Filco is usually a noisy beast. The Filco ring is real! So those silent switches are an immense improvement over regular MX, as I had to really listen to hear any of the usual Filco sound at all. A good custom board, with a damped case and especially one without a plate, could make them tremendously quiet.
You saw my Filco review, my main complaint was that they’re still a bit creaky and rough in comparison to the gold standard of silky smooth: Topre, in the middle of the stroke. MX is like Alps that way: some individual switches are worse than others. I think it was the End key in particular that liked to creak at me!
Mind, a Filco is usually a noisy beast. The Filco ring is real! So those silent switches are an immense improvement over regular MX, as I had to really listen to hear any of the usual Filco sound at all. A good custom board, with a damped case and especially one without a plate, could make them tremendously quiet.