F104+SSK+122+62+77+50+Ergo orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards

[Ellipse]

Yep ramnes you'd need a border around the switches for the capacitive design elements (pls see the original 4704 PCB below as an example.

originalPCB.jpg (993.12 KiB) Viewed 4554 times

Here's probably the closest approximation to what you were looking for - it would leave the top inner assembly elements visible. Does anyone else like something more like this design over the previous alternative design? Both designs would have approximately the same dimensions.

2nd alt design.jpg (155.62 KiB) Viewed 4554 times

[__red__]

Forgive me if someone had asked this already but any chance you'll be selling barrels, flippers, springs separately?

If so, any idea of pricing at the couple of hundred Mark?

[Ellipse]

Yes __red__ you will be able to buy each part separately. There are some other Model F projects out there and hopefully the availability of these parts for a two-month window starting in January will spur even more custom Model F projects.

Discounted pricing for bulk orders should be about 50 cents per barrel and the same for each flipper with spring.

[__red__]

I'm curious, why only a two month window? Surely the expense and effort is mostly in the tooling?

Forgive me if I glossed over something previously discussed.

[Ellipse]

No worries __red__! Despite this being a $70,000+ project judging by current interest (220+ preorders), this is considered a really small project for factories and everything needs to be ordered in one or two batches to get the price down to $325 per keyboard. Tooling involves the effort to set up the factory's machines to make a particular project - once my few hundred units are done, they reconfigure the machines for something else.

In contrast, the F77 and F62 prototypes arriving next week cost thousands of $$$ each to make as there were no economies of scale.

For production to be "continuous" and for parts and keyboards to be available year-round you'd need to pre-pay for and hold tens of thousands of dollars of inventory. Someone would need to spend about $35,000 to hold just 100 extra keyboards' worth of inventory.

This is the reason for the one or two month window - too short a window and people miss out, but too long a window and people are waiting too long for their order to arrive. I would like to ship these as soon as possible. The project was announced in June so everyone will have had 6 months to come across it and ~two months to place their order.

I am willing to work with anyone or any company that wants to order X number of units and sell them, including Amazon, Massdrop, etc. If anyone can help in this regard (marketing) and/or has industry contacts, please do let me know over PM.

[andrewjoy]

I am willing to work with anyone or any company that wants to order X number of units and sell them, including Amazon, Massdrop, etc. If anyone can help in this regard (marketing) and/or has industry contacts, please do let me know over PM.

Have you spoken to unicomp ? They may want to buy some stock such as springs hammers and barrels. The keyboard Company may also be interested

[ramnes]

Yep ramnes you'd need a border around the switches for the capacitive design elements (pls see the original 4704 PCB below as an example.

originalPCB.jpg

Here's probably the closest approximation to what you were looking for - it would leave the top inner assembly elements visible. Does anyone else like something more like this design over the previous alternative design? Both designs would have approximately the same dimensions.

2nd alt design.jpg

It's getting closer! But indeed, it would look better if the top inner assembly elements were not visible.

Maybe something like the KMAC happy (not mini) would be the way to go?




(Pics and keyboards of Photoelectric)

[__red__]

No worries __red__! Despite this being a $70,000+ project judging by current interest (220+ preorders), this is considered a really small project for factories and everything needs to be ordered in one or two batches to get the price down to $325 per keyboard. Tooling involves the effort to set up the factory's machines to make a particular project - once my few hundred units are done, they reconfigure the machines for something else.

In contrast, the F77 and F62 prototypes arriving next week cost thousands of $$$ each to make as there were no economies of scale.

For production to be "continuous" and for parts and keyboards to be available year-round you'd need to pre-pay for and hold tens of thousands of dollars of inventory. Someone would need to spend about $35,000 to hold just 100 extra keyboards' worth of inventory.

This is the reason for the one or two month window - too short a window and people miss out, but too long a window and people are waiting too long for their order to arrive. I would like to ship these as soon as possible. The project was announced in June so everyone will have had 6 months to come across it and ~two months to place their order.

I am willing to work with anyone or any company that wants to order X number of units and sell them, including Amazon, Massdrop, etc. If anyone can help in this regard (marketing) and/or has industry contacts, please do let me know over PM.

Thanks, just make sure you get your tooling back so you can either get re-runs or maybe sell them too another enthusiast to make another run.

Do you need interest levels at the component level in advance?

Lastly, I'm going to pm you my contact details. If work pwns my world or I vanish again I want to be sure you can reach me since we talked about the pcb in another thread.

[Ellipse]

Thanks __red__. I don't need component level interest levels in advance - I will make as much of each part as is needed. But I would request that anyone interested in ordering a keyboard sign the Google Docs interest form in the first thread.

[wcass]

It's getting closer! But indeed, it would look better if the top inner assembly elements were not visible.

Maybe something like the KMAC happy (not mini) would be the way to go?

Or "picture frame" type case like like Weaven ...

[ramnes]

Yep, that would do it too!

[Ellipse]

ok I put a top cover - ramnes is this what you were thinking?

With a thick case top, the area below the keycaps will be hidden from view. Or do people prefer a smaller case but to have the space below the keys visible? It's a difference of about 5-6 mm.

2nd alt design2.jpg (138.27 KiB) Viewed 4365 times

[ramnes]

This is perfect like this, Ellipse! High profile cases are the best.

It just needs the IBM logo on the top left now!

[Hypersphere]

Given that a modified small case is being made for the F62, what about providing for a detachable cable? Is this a possibility?

[chalks]

Is the thinner F77 case also going to look like this last design? Will there be a separator between the main part of the keyboard and the numpad/cursor key area?

Once powdercoated, will this also have the bumpy finish of the original cases?

Is it possible to round off the top and bottom edges to make it more reminiscent of the original case? I personally prefer more subtle reminders of the origin of this design rather than an IBM logo.

[Hypersphere]

Yes, I would also prefer rounded corners -- perhaps just slightly rounded with a relatively small radius, somewhat like the TEX CNC aluminum cases for 60% keyboards.

TEX_case2.jpg (42.74 KiB) Viewed 4247 times

https://www.facebook.com/47279241275646 ... =3&theater

[Ellipse]

Hypersphere - __red__ has volunteered to redesign the xwhatsit controller so that the most recent alternative design is possible. If the micro USB port faces the back side of the keyboard, then I would say yes it would be possible. But given the curve of the inner assembly, the plug may not be perpendicular to the case.

chalks - yes there would be a separator for the F77 version between the main section and the num pad area keys. Yes if powdercoated they should be bumpy.

I'd have to look into the rounding. It may add to the cost of the case.

2nd alt design3.jpg (167.24 KiB) Viewed 4231 times

[Ellipse]

The factory is coming along nicely with the prototype units and they have sent more photos.

Unfortunately they need to take the rest of this week to finish up loose ends (styrofoam packing/the box) and make some notes for production and assembly while they still have the prototype units, before they mail them. This means we are delayed until late next week most likely

One more reminder that the case paint colors are not accurate in the photos below. Also the foam used in the photo for testing is not the foam being used for the production units.

Also in the photos you can see the inside of the top cover and its strain relief post. The P clips arrived today and they worked well with the USB cable in my testing.

assembly1 (1).jpg (883.86 KiB) Viewed 4226 times

assembly1 (2).jpg (375 KiB) Viewed 4226 times

assembly1 (3).jpg (349.92 KiB) Viewed 4226 times

assembly1 (4).jpg (458.4 KiB) Viewed 4226 times

assembly1 (5).jpg (360.12 KiB) Viewed 4226 times

[Hypersphere]

@Ellipse: Will the innards of the F62 be transplantable from the small case into the larger one? What about the other way around (move the insides of the F62 from the large case into the small one)?

I was thinking of hedging my bets and buying an F62 with an additional case so that I could move the internals to a different case if I didn't like one or the other of the cases.

In any case (as it were), I look forward to seeing some renders and ultimately photos of each finished keyboard.

[Ellipse]

Yep Hypersphere, with the exception of the bottom inner assembly. That will need to be redesigned to fit the smaller case. The other parts are all the same.

[Hypersphere]

@Ellipse: Thanks for your replies, and thanks for the most recent photos. Looking good!

[ramnes]

Hypersphere - __red__ has volunteered to redesign the xwhatsit controller so that the most recent alternative design is possible. If the micro USB port faces the back side of the keyboard, then I would say yes it would be possible. But given the curve of the inner assembly, the plug may not be perpendicular to the case.

chalks - yes there would be a separator for the F77 version between the main section and the num pad area keys. Yes if powdercoated they should be bumpy.

I'd have to look into the rounding. It may add to the cost of the case.

2nd alt design3.jpg

Looks great too! I'd still love the IBM logo, thought.

[andrewjoy]

Oh man its looking good , i cannot wait !

[Redmaus]

I am so conflicted here. 77-key or kish?

Both look amazing. Keep up the great work Ellipse!

[webwit]

How is this difficult?

Both.

[Ellipse]

Thanks webwit I agree

Just think, 5 years from now you might want a layout change and you'll be glad you have an extra keyboard. Or maybe one for your home and one for work?

[scottc]

Ever the salesman, Ellipse! I'm struggling to find the funds for a single board. $325 is an incredibly tall order, probably twice to three times the price of what I paid for the most expensive keyboards I own (a HHKB Pro 1 + NIB SSK), plus the extra hefty cost of shipping and import taxes into Europe for those of us unfortunate enough to be stung by those. I'm sure many others are in the same position!

[Hypersphere]

More's the pity that I am in dire financial straits these days; I will be doing well to purchase one of these. However, I also recognize that this is a very rare opportunity.

[Elrick]

Ever the salesman, Ellipse! I'm struggling to find the funds for a single board. $325 is an incredibly tall order, probably twice to three times the price of what I paid for the most expensive keyboards I own (a HHKB Pro 1 + NIB SSK), plus the extra hefty cost of shipping and import taxes into Europe for those of us unfortunate enough to be stung by those. I'm sure many others are in the same position!

Trust me, this new Ellipse keyboard is FAR better than any cheapo all plastic HHKB or ancient/rusting SSK.

Time to step up with the Model-F crowd and celebrate a real mechanical keyboard for once.

[0100010]

... while some of us are thinking $325 for this is much cheaper than our own F62 / 107 rebuilds ...