In-progress split ergo keyboard

[Sjiveru]

Hello everyone!

I've been working on my first keyboard build, a split ergonomic keyboard similar to the Ergodox. I got into this by realising that my particular keyboard needs were quite different from the average person's (namely, a keyboard that works for the Japanese thumbshift system and is more ergonomic than a normal flat rectangular QWERTY keyboard) - it turned out that making my own would be cheaper and better than buying a premade thumbshift keyboard, and I figured I might as well go the whole way and make the most ergonomic keyboard I could manage.

It will look something like this:

layout demo.png (89 KiB) Viewed 2958 times

The layouts for both English and Japanese are my own creations, though the Japanese one still works exactly the same as the normal NICOLA thumbshift system (where shifting on the same side of the keyboard as the key you're pressing is contrasted with shifting on the opposite side).

I chose not to just use an Ergodox for a couple of reasons. One, I'm on a -very- limited budget, and I wanted to get by using just a single set of WASD's custom-printed keycaps. Another is that I really, really don't like the Ergodox's thumb cluster design - it's a whole lot easier for me to move my thumb in an arc than it is to try and move it forwards and backwards. I don't need too many extra keys anyway, and shrinking the thumb cluster allows the thumb's rest position to be moved inwards a bit, which is a little more natural for me.

I haven't actually gotten the frame and case made yet, because I have some outstanding design questions I thought I might ask y'all for input on:

- I'm not exactly sure how much offset I want the columns to have
- I don't know what the price difference is between cutting three or four different shapes of aluminium sheets to make the case and just cutting an aluminium frame and doing the case in some other material
- I don't know where it'd be best to store the Teensy - I could put it under the keyboard or at the top of the keyboard, either of which might make it look weird

Y'all here at Deskthority have already been a massive help (without the tutorials here I'd have been completely lost), thank you.

[Findecanor]

Interesting. You have found Japanese keyboards with similar layouts, but don't want to convert one? Those I have seen pictures of use Alps though, and I don't think custom-printed keycaps for Alps would be easy to get.

Are you planning on using a metal plate with direct wiring or are you going for a PCB? If you are making a PCB then you could use PCB-mounted switches and skip the plate.
Acrylic or wood are usually much cheaper to laser-cut than to CNC-route/lasercut metal.
One alternative would be to make the plate of thick acrylic and just force-fit or glue switches in, or use layers of acrylic to snap switches in the normal way.

As to the ErgoDox, there are ways to modify it to move the thumb-keys inwards, but that requires a custom plate.

I would use column offsets like columnar Japanese keyboards. ErgoDox has much smaller column offsets.

[Muirium]

Intriguing. I haven't heard of these columnar Japanese keyboards. What do they look like?

Customs are expensive if you go metal. Each laser cut sheet adds more cost, and the plate is the most expensive of them all thanks to all the detail. My Shiny 60% last year cost €111 if I remember in layered metal alone. Of course, it was an all metal keyboard…

How about some 3D printed prototypes? Those can be quite effective for getting the feel of a body, and will produce a working keyboard. Suka is the man for that. He has a great thread of all his work here:

http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/my-d ... t2534.html

[Findecanor]

There is one vintage Japanese keyboard in the Wiki NEC PC-8801-KI. This one has Futaba switches, though...

[Sjiveru]

Interesting. You have found Japanese keyboards with similar layouts, but don't want to convert one? Those I have seen pictures of use Alps though, and I don't think custom-printed keycaps for Alps would be easy to get.

All the Japanese ones I've seen are basically your average PC keyboard with two thumb shift keys instead of a spacebar - something like this.

There is one vintage Japanese keyboard in the Wiki NEC PC-8801-KI. This one has Futaba switches, though...

That's definitely nicer than what I've seen for sale these days, though the switches does make it an issue for custom caps. The core of what I want out of this design is the split-hands thing, though.

Are you planning on using a metal plate with direct wiring or are you going for a PCB? If you are making a PCB then you could use PCB-mounted switches and skip the plate.

I figured for my first build I'd avoid trying to print my own PCB, and the Cherry switches I have are non-PCB compatible.

One alternative would be to make the plate of thick acrylic and just force-fit or glue switches in, or use layers of acrylic to snap switches in the normal way.

How would the layering thing work? Would you just make a frame out of acrylic along with the rest of the case?

I would use column offsets like columnar Japanese keyboards. ErgoDox has much smaller column offsets.

Yeah, the ErgoDox column offsets seemed really small to me. I'll try out the offsets from that keyboard from the wiki.

Customs are expensive if you go metal. Each laser cut sheet adds more cost, and the plate is the most expensive of them all thanks to all the detail. My Shiny 60% last year cost €111 if I remember in layered metal alone. Of course, it was an all metal keyboard…

[/quote]
That's about the price range I was expecting, and I assume that that'll go down if I opt for using acrylic for some or all of it. That's encouraging then ^_^

[Findecanor]

One alternative would be to make the plate of thick acrylic and just force-fit or glue switches in, or use layers of acrylic to snap switches in the normal way.

How would the layering thing work? Would you just make a frame out of acrylic along with the rest of the case?

The Massdrop/ErgoDox case designed by Litster consists of a thicker "plate" than the Cherry-mandated 1.5 mm.
With 1.5 mm thickness each switch clips to the plate. With thicker plates, the switches would be only friction-fitted.

I got a 1.5 mm thick acrylic plate laser-cut for my ErgoDox, because I did some custom modifications to the design. I found that thinness of acrylic to be a bit flimsy. Just strong enough for a keyboard where the PCB is the load-bearing part, but it would definitely not be strong enough without a PCB, for direct wiring.
However, I think that if you would laser-cut two or more layers of 1.5 mm acrylic and glue them together then you could achieve both that the switch clips to the plate and enough strength. A downside would be that transparent acrylic with glue in-between wouldn't look good, so you would have to paint it.

[jacobolus]

In the US, I don’t think it’s too easy to find 1.5mm acrylic, but 1/16" acrylic (1.59mm) also works to clip in MX switches. (Unfortunately SMK “monterey” Alps-mount switches won’t clip to a 1/16" acrylic plate.)

Two layers of thin Acrylic bolted together where you’d have bolts anyway in a Lister-style case works great. (Gluing them might or might not improve things.)

[hasu]

I don't know shop carrying Teensy in Japan but you can get it form PJRC, of cource. Or you can get alternatives in the country like these;
http://strawberry-linux.com/catalog/items?code=25001
http://www.switch-science.com/catalog/1623/
And on ebay you can snag even cheaper one.
http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/teen ... 53-90.html


As for ergonomic layout/dimension, I think you shoul check this blog if you missed. His keyboard work is impressive and very informative. I believe you will find useful papers and resourses for your keyboard project there.
http://shiki.esrille.com/

Looking forward seeing your project progress, keep us updated!

[Findecanor]

Off-topic:

(Unfortunately SMK “monterey” Alps-mount switches won’t clip to a 1/16" acrylic plate.)

You have tried to make a custom SMK-switch keyboard? If you have datasheets then please upload to the Wiki! I would love to have detailed specs.

[Sjiveru]

However, I think that if you would laser-cut two or more layers of 1.5 mm acrylic and glue them together then you could achieve both that the switch clips to the plate and enough strength. A downside would be that transparent acrylic with glue in-between wouldn't look good, so you would have to paint it.

If it's cheap enough compared to metal I might try that, thanks.

In the US, I don’t think it’s too easy to find 1.5mm acrylic, but 1/16" acrylic (1.59mm) also works to clip in MX switches. (Unfortunately SMK “monterey” Alps-mount switches won’t clip to a 1/16" acrylic plate.)

Two layers of thin Acrylic bolted together where you’d have bolts anyway in a Lister-style case works great. (Gluing them might or might not improve things.)

Bolting would certainly look nicer than gluing. Would that be enough to prevent somewhere like the middle from wobbling too much?

('Lister style?')

As for ergonomic layout/dimension, I think you shoul check this blog if you missed. His keyboard work is impressive and very informative. I believe you will find useful papers and resourses for your keyboard project there.
http://shiki.esrille.com/

Thanks for the link, that looks like a pretty interesting blog - I'll definitely be spending a while reading through it. I already have my Teensy though (I'm not actually in Japan), but thanks ^_^