I've got my hands on a bunch of fake / unmarked MX and ALPS/Mathias(?) switches.
Let's show them off!
Copycat switches
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noesc
- Location: Sweden
- Main keyboard: Unrevealed DIY
- Main mouse: Func MS-3 R2
- Favorite switch: MX Blue
- DT Pro Member: -
Starting with the ALPS:
White is clicky
Grey is tactile
White is clicky
Grey is tactile
- alps-top.jpg (40.21 KiB) Viewed 3901 times
- alps-side.jpg (49.25 KiB) Viewed 3901 times
- alps-front.jpg (42.33 KiB) Viewed 3901 times
- alps-bottom.jpg (42.75 KiB) Viewed 3901 times
- alps-back.jpg (48.02 KiB) Viewed 3901 times
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Daniel Beardsmore
- Location: Hertfordshire, England
- Main keyboard: Filco Majestouch 1 (home)/Poker II backlit (work)
- Main mouse: MS IMO 1.1
- Favorite switch: Probably not whatever I wrote here
- DT Pro Member: -
- Contact:
Why do you say that the Matias switches are clones? Where did you get them? Matias switches are unbranded. Final assembly is carried out by [wiki]Gaote[/wiki] and are listed on the Gaote website, so you may just have direct-from-manufacturer switches. Edgar Matias declined to respond to my question about whether they're paid for sales that bypass Matias, but he's noted to someone privately (now publicised) that they own all the tooling for the switches.
Of course, this is why I am so amazed that Matias failed to brand their switches. That was a very peculiar omission considering how infamous the Alps world is for confusion over manufacturers.
Gaote also sell branded MX clones, and it's claimed that the very different-looking MX clones in the Noppoo Lolita are also Gaote (presumably assembled from parts made to a different design by someone else).
Of course, this is why I am so amazed that Matias failed to brand their switches. That was a very peculiar omission considering how infamous the Alps world is for confusion over manufacturers.
Gaote also sell branded MX clones, and it's claimed that the very different-looking MX clones in the Noppoo Lolita are also Gaote (presumably assembled from parts made to a different design by someone else).
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Findecanor
- Location: Stockholm, Sweden
- DT Pro Member: 0011
How can you tell that the Matias switches are fake? They look right to me. The tactile switches used to be made with white sliders, but it was changed to grey.
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Muirium
- µ
- Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
- Main keyboard: HHKB Type-S with Bluetooth by Hasu
- Main mouse: Apple Magic Mouse
- Favorite switch: Gotta Try 'Em All
- DT Pro Member: µ
Guess not everyone's actually heard of them. As Daniel pointed out: the lack of branding on all Matias switches is a recipe for confusion.
My theory why Matias didn't spank a logo on them is because Gaote wanted more for the privilege. Everyone loves to sell a little on the side, quite regardless of who's tools actually churned them out…
My theory why Matias didn't spank a logo on them is because Gaote wanted more for the privilege. Everyone loves to sell a little on the side, quite regardless of who's tools actually churned them out…
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noesc
- Location: Sweden
- Main keyboard: Unrevealed DIY
- Main mouse: Func MS-3 R2
- Favorite switch: MX Blue
- DT Pro Member: -
Hmmm.... Interesting... The rabbit hole is even deeper then I thought...
The reason why I think/say that they are clones are because the manufacturer says so =) Simple as that.
Funny thing is, I asked specifically for Cherry MX switches and they offered Originals + their own version.
I thought that it was interesting so I asked to get a sample of all available switches of these models, and voilá!, ALPS/Matias/Gaote/who-knows switches
According to the adresses I can find for Gaote, which is based in Dongguan, they are not the ones who have manufactured these. The only information I have is that they are made in Shenzhen...
The Cherry MX clones are _very_ similar to the Gaote ones, but totally unbranded. I will provide pictures when I have the possibilty.
The reason why I think/say that they are clones are because the manufacturer says so =) Simple as that.
Funny thing is, I asked specifically for Cherry MX switches and they offered Originals + their own version.
I thought that it was interesting so I asked to get a sample of all available switches of these models, and voilá!, ALPS/Matias/Gaote/who-knows switches
According to the adresses I can find for Gaote, which is based in Dongguan, they are not the ones who have manufactured these. The only information I have is that they are made in Shenzhen...
The Cherry MX clones are _very_ similar to the Gaote ones, but totally unbranded. I will provide pictures when I have the possibilty.
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Daniel Beardsmore
- Location: Hertfordshire, England
- Main keyboard: Filco Majestouch 1 (home)/Poker II backlit (work)
- Main mouse: MS IMO 1.1
- Favorite switch: Probably not whatever I wrote here
- DT Pro Member: -
- Contact:
Yes the rabbit hole is deep. My samples from Xiang Min were labelled up with Hua-Jie part numbers. A search for Hua-Jie switch part numbers turns up numerous companies that seem to all be implying that they made them, when so far as I can tell, they're all Xiang Min switches (same style shell, and it includes parts Hua-Jie no longer sell, but Xiang Min still do).
Working solely from Google Translate doesn't really help me either, as it's nearly impossible to get a reliable translation of any Far East website.
In terms of Matias switches, Gaote perform final assembly, therefore it is possible for another company to buy all the individual parts and assemble them themselves. This is less likely with Xiang Min as they own a plastics factory and most likely make the plastic parts themselves.
Working solely from Google Translate doesn't really help me either, as it's nearly impossible to get a reliable translation of any Far East website.
In terms of Matias switches, Gaote perform final assembly, therefore it is possible for another company to buy all the individual parts and assemble them themselves. This is less likely with Xiang Min as they own a plastics factory and most likely make the plastic parts themselves.
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noesc
- Location: Sweden
- Main keyboard: Unrevealed DIY
- Main mouse: Func MS-3 R2
- Favorite switch: MX Blue
- DT Pro Member: -
I looked through what I could find on their homepages and the wiki, i.e not very much.
My spontanious reaction is that the switches I've got doesn't fit the descriptions available.
I hope I get time over during the weekend to take more photos of both the externals and internals.
It is possible that these switches in fact are Matias switches just assembled on site, however that is not what the manufacturer implies. I will try to get more information.
My spontanious reaction is that the switches I've got doesn't fit the descriptions available.
I hope I get time over during the weekend to take more photos of both the externals and internals.
It is possible that these switches in fact are Matias switches just assembled on site, however that is not what the manufacturer implies. I will try to get more information.
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Muirium
- µ
- Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
- Main keyboard: HHKB Type-S with Bluetooth by Hasu
- Main mouse: Apple Magic Mouse
- Favorite switch: Gotta Try 'Em All
- DT Pro Member: µ
Bear in mind that Matias switches are themselves Alps clones, so perhaps that's what was meant. Definitely get forensic on them in any case!
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Muirium
- µ
- Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
- Main keyboard: HHKB Type-S with Bluetooth by Hasu
- Main mouse: Apple Magic Mouse
- Favorite switch: Gotta Try 'Em All
- DT Pro Member: µ
The kind of pictures we want are well lit and high detailed. So we can really see what's there. Got a macro lens? That will help.
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noesc
- Location: Sweden
- Main keyboard: Unrevealed DIY
- Main mouse: Func MS-3 R2
- Favorite switch: MX Blue
- DT Pro Member: -
Tools to my disposal;
- Crappy Ceiling spotligt
- Random crappy table lamp w/o adjument possibilties
- Webcam Logitech C910
I'll see what I can manage to accomplish though!
I'm really keen to go to the bottom with these switches, find out what's true and what's not!
I've sent out a straight forward question to the manufacturer about whether these really are ALPS/Matias switches or something they actually make themselfs.
- Crappy Ceiling spotligt
- Random crappy table lamp w/o adjument possibilties
- Webcam Logitech C910
I'll see what I can manage to accomplish though!
I'm really keen to go to the bottom with these switches, find out what's true and what's not!
I've sent out a straight forward question to the manufacturer about whether these really are ALPS/Matias switches or something they actually make themselfs.
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noesc
- Location: Sweden
- Main keyboard: Unrevealed DIY
- Main mouse: Func MS-3 R2
- Favorite switch: MX Blue
- DT Pro Member: -
Unfinished student ^^
The university (actually "Högskola" in Swedish) had no idea what they we're doing so I decided that my money was better spent elsewhere. Just to give you guys some examples:
Course: "Low level programming"
Actual coursematerial / lectures / examples: Written in C++
Course: Introduction to forensics
Actual lab material: Floppy-disks
*palm face*
The university (actually "Högskola" in Swedish) had no idea what they we're doing so I decided that my money was better spent elsewhere. Just to give you guys some examples:
Course: "Low level programming"
Actual coursematerial / lectures / examples: Written in C++
Course: Introduction to forensics
Actual lab material: Floppy-disks
*palm face*
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Findecanor
- Location: Stockholm, Sweden
- DT Pro Member: 0011
Off-topic: Some college courses have been going on unchanged for 15+ years, but I think that a lot can still be valid. Even if storage media changes, the underlying principles often do not. New systems are still made in C++ - you don't program embedded systems in C#/.Net or Python.
I know a couple of guys who work with "forensics", figuring out how to extract data from cell phones - they look at raw memory dumps, pretty much just like I used to do with a machine code monitor back on the C64 25 years ago.
I know a couple of guys who work with "forensics", figuring out how to extract data from cell phones - they look at raw memory dumps, pretty much just like I used to do with a machine code monitor back on the C64 25 years ago.
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noesc
- Location: Sweden
- Main keyboard: Unrevealed DIY
- Main mouse: Func MS-3 R2
- Favorite switch: MX Blue
- DT Pro Member: -
Findecano:
The big problem with old storage media is that they are slow, inconsistent and just generally broken. Especially when you consider that they are not new-unused floppy-disks.
I totally agree that C++ is valid for many things, but not when the course is supposed to be about assembly, C and similar low level languages. These languages where also specifically specified on the course information page ^_^
Well, end of off-topic. Let's try to keep this thread clean for showing dirty copies!
The big problem with old storage media is that they are slow, inconsistent and just generally broken. Especially when you consider that they are not new-unused floppy-disks.
I totally agree that C++ is valid for many things, but not when the course is supposed to be about assembly, C and similar low level languages. These languages where also specifically specified on the course information page ^_^
Well, end of off-topic. Let's try to keep this thread clean for showing dirty copies!
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noesc
- Location: Sweden
- Main keyboard: Unrevealed DIY
- Main mouse: Func MS-3 R2
- Favorite switch: MX Blue
- DT Pro Member: -
A bit out of a recent conversation with sales-rep.
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Me: The opaque / clear switches you've provided for me. They look extremely similar to Matias switches produced by Dongguan Gaote Electronics Co., Ltd.
Are these switches made by Gaote / Other company or do you make these yourself?
X: Of course we made by ourself.
X: Which company's goods similar with ours?
Me: Are you assembling them or actually producing the parts? I mean producing, for example, the plastic parts?
X: Produced all by ourself.
X: What's the comments with our goods, now?
----
Color me curious...
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Me: The opaque / clear switches you've provided for me. They look extremely similar to Matias switches produced by Dongguan Gaote Electronics Co., Ltd.
Are these switches made by Gaote / Other company or do you make these yourself?
X: Of course we made by ourself.
X: Which company's goods similar with ours?
Me: Are you assembling them or actually producing the parts? I mean producing, for example, the plastic parts?
X: Produced all by ourself.
X: What's the comments with our goods, now?
----
Color me curious...
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Daniel Beardsmore
- Location: Hertfordshire, England
- Main keyboard: Filco Majestouch 1 (home)/Poker II backlit (work)
- Main mouse: MS IMO 1.1
- Favorite switch: Probably not whatever I wrote here
- DT Pro Member: -
- Contact:
The Matias Tactile Pro had Alps-branded SKBM White switches.
When Edgar Matias was inspecting the then-new Tactile Pro 2, Strong Man demonstrated the "Strong Man switches", which were similar, but with grey sliders.
However, if you look at Tactile Pro keyboards, most of those, too, had grey sliders, but Alps branded, and Matias never noticed (grey and white might be the same switch, for all we know; my datasheets only cover white and the thus far unseen yellow). Strong Man seem to have taken advantage of the removal of the Alps branding by Forward as an excuse to claim ownership of the switches. They also described the four-tab clones as being Strong Man switches to some companies, when they appear to be Himake/Hua-Jie. It looks like Forward only branded the bottom of the switch after they removed the Alps logos, so you'd not normally see the branding; I only discovered this recently. Sandy's loose simplified white and my loose simplified grey are both Alps-branded.
(The Strong Man website itself made no such claims back in 2005, not naming the Alps switches and clones by name.)
Those switches in your photographs just look far too accurate to be clones, as typically the clones aren't the same shape as the original. Yours appear to be 100% the same as the real switch, though I don't know the exact shade of grey for the tactile switch.
It's definitely a rabbit hole all right.
When Edgar Matias was inspecting the then-new Tactile Pro 2, Strong Man demonstrated the "Strong Man switches", which were similar, but with grey sliders.
However, if you look at Tactile Pro keyboards, most of those, too, had grey sliders, but Alps branded, and Matias never noticed (grey and white might be the same switch, for all we know; my datasheets only cover white and the thus far unseen yellow). Strong Man seem to have taken advantage of the removal of the Alps branding by Forward as an excuse to claim ownership of the switches. They also described the four-tab clones as being Strong Man switches to some companies, when they appear to be Himake/Hua-Jie. It looks like Forward only branded the bottom of the switch after they removed the Alps logos, so you'd not normally see the branding; I only discovered this recently. Sandy's loose simplified white and my loose simplified grey are both Alps-branded.
(The Strong Man website itself made no such claims back in 2005, not naming the Alps switches and clones by name.)
Those switches in your photographs just look far too accurate to be clones, as typically the clones aren't the same shape as the original. Yours appear to be 100% the same as the real switch, though I don't know the exact shade of grey for the tactile switch.
It's definitely a rabbit hole all right.