Group Build prototyping phase

matt3o · 22 Apr 2014, 08:47

pasph wrote:
matt3o wrote:This would be my wooden experiment:

It's pretty to tears
Can this be made also for Alps (Dell style stabs)?
But i'll buy a wood case regardless...

technically speaking I see no problems, but I don't know if you can find all the keycaps.

Vierax wrote:Is it safe to have a wired matrix and no Faraday cage to prevent ECM? Should I add alu/copper tape inside the wood case ?

I don't really think it's needed. I believe The_Beast already CNC'd a wooden case with no issues.

The wooden case turned out really inexpensive the problem again is the plate. I have to find a way to cut costs on that. Shit!

matt3o · 22 Apr 2014, 14:12

got some quotes.

A 100% wood keyboard goes around 60 euros with a lot of waste material. 2 keyboards not so much less, I'd say about €50 (each). You get some real benefit at 12, where one full case and plate goes around €35.

The catch is that you need a PCB because the wood plate is not enough to sustain the pressure.

The home-made PCB is around €10.

scottc · 22 Apr 2014, 14:19

Hey matt3o, would you consider doing just a custom PCB once this happens? I've got a plate on the way already, and once I make sure the layout works for me and hand-wire it I might want to get a PCB just because.

matt3o · 22 Apr 2014, 14:54

if the PCB stays within 30x20, yes.

Muirium · 22 Apr 2014, 15:59

I have a few I'd like, too! One M84, one for my shiny 60% and maybe a Matias too. All sub TKL.

So, a 100% wood case, no plate, but with custom PCB, would be fairly nicely priced? I could go for a thick wood base for stability.

matt3o · 22 Apr 2014, 16:03

without plate the case goes for something like 20.

Muirium · 22 Apr 2014, 16:25

The Eco Keyboard. Good for the environment, and your GB depleted wallet!

pasph · 22 Apr 2014, 16:47

matt3o wrote:got some quotes.

A 100% wood keyboard goes around 60 euros with a lot of waste material. 2 keyboards not so much less, I'd say about €50 (each). You get some real benefit at 12, where one full case and plate goes around €35.

The catch is that you need a PCB because the wood plate is not enough to sustain the pressure.

The home-made PCB is around €10.

Your design maybe iso?
30x20 is between Mx-mini and TKL?

matt3o · 22 Apr 2014, 16:53

the PCB for that keyboard is actually 30x10, but I can go up to 30x20. Over that size things become a little complicated logistically (but it could be done, just not in this test run).

Same layout but ISO could be easily done. Of course you need the standard 2u backspace

Nuum · 22 Apr 2014, 17:11

A layout like this would be awesome, it's like a KMAC mini and the home row is perfectly centered.

matt3o · 22 Apr 2014, 17:15

yes, that layout is definitely between the candidates for the final run. Unfortunately the PCB is wider than 30cm. I've found 50cm PCBs but they are of course more expensive. Might be better to just make a main PCB+small daughter board.

Broadmonkey · 22 Apr 2014, 17:47

Only thing with that layout is the bottom row, the 6u spacebar is not that easy to get a hold of, what I did last year was to make the right shift 1.25 instead of 1.5 and then increase the spacebar to 6.25. I works well but I'd actually wish for a small gab between it and the arrow keys.

The idea about the daughter board is however a good idea.

matt3o · 22 Apr 2014, 18:03

Ok. I'll have a wooden test run of 2 samples. The layout will be this:

1 ISO, 1 ANSI.

I really don't know how it will turn out but If someone is interested please ping me and I'll put you in a not-binding list of interested parties. The final cost should be half of a full aluminum layered keyboard. I can also full assemble it for you if you want.

Nuum · 22 Apr 2014, 18:07

Yeah, the 6u spacebar could be a problem, but I played around with the layout for quite some time, and it looks the best to me this way, because you have the size of the mod the same on both sides.
You could shrink the right Ctrl to 1u and have a 6.25u spacebar, so that you get gap between mods and arrow keys. This way the size of the Ctrl wouldn't look completely wrong to me. But then there is a 0.25u gap between them and a 0.5u gap to the F-keys. Without the 0.5u gap to the F-keys the keyboard wouldn't be centered on the home row.
Or you could get rid of the Fn/Win key and have a 7u spacebar, but that way the Alt position is bad for me.

photekq · 22 Apr 2014, 18:09

You can get 6u spacebars from the later G80-1800s, where there are 1u modifiers.

scottc · 22 Apr 2014, 18:13

photekq wrote:You can get 6u spacebars from the later G80-1800s, where there are 1u modifiers.

Nice PBT ones at that!

Muirium · 22 Apr 2014, 18:42

Matt: is this quick exploration of wood construction a test for more action this year? I'd really like to try it out. But you know my budget.

If you're running another wood cut in a few months, I could well be in for a plateless wood case with custom PCB. Really want to use those short throw M84s!

matt3o · 22 Apr 2014, 18:44

if it turns out half as good as it is in my head, yes, wood cut will be definitely an option for our summer gb

Muirium · 22 Apr 2014, 18:46

Fantastic.

So, is wood constrained to 2D layers like metal layering, or can we design pyramids this time?

matt3o · 22 Apr 2014, 18:49

it's still laser cut (not CNC milled), so the same constrains apply BUT the material is very easy to work and if treated correctly it will look like a solid piece of matter (the layers would be hardly visible).

Muirium · 22 Apr 2014, 18:57

Indeed. What woods are available? Colours? Textures?

matt3o · 22 Apr 2014, 19:14

birch plywood probably.

color depends on how you treat the wood. You can go from natural (like above) to red or very dark like ebony.

Now that I think of it... the problem will be to find a way to weigthen the case

guilleguillaume · 22 Apr 2014, 19:20

Are we talking about something of wood like this from gmjhowe?

BTW I'm interested in this thing.

matt3o · 22 Apr 2014, 19:23

yes, the idea is similar, just a little more finished (and the plate has a top frame, it's not open)

Muirium · 22 Apr 2014, 19:28

An obvious weight would be a nice 3 mm thick layer of steel, or two, held within the wooden exterior, down near the base. Love a heavy keyboard!

matt3o · 22 Apr 2014, 19:31

I was thinking of screwing a relatively small steel plate to the bottom. that would add approx 200g I believe. But of course we want to keep the price low, so I can't run a steel laser cut just to add weight

Muirium · 22 Apr 2014, 19:46

Yeah, ballast doesn't have to be accurate. Laser not required.

I also wonder about the opposite direction: what if we make the inside all wood with very little airspace in there? Not as heavy as metal, but could be quite effective in how it makes the board feel to use.

matt3o · 22 Apr 2014, 20:05

room inside the case is already reduced to the minimum, you'd have to make quite a tall case to add wood-weight.

Muirium · 22 Apr 2014, 21:12

Tall and stepped. It worked well last time in steel. Could even be more aggressive:

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matt3o · 23 Apr 2014, 00:19

if you a good carpenter you could even fill the steps with some wood particles and glue, or wood plaster and a lot of sanding