F104+SSK+122+62+77+50+Ergo orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards

Muirium · 16 Jul 2015, 16:30

Correct. The 62 key is an amazing design but just for that awful right Shift key. That's the only thing I wish to fix. HHKB style!

andrewjoy · 16 Jul 2015, 17:29

0100010 wrote: ↑
andrewjoy wrote: ↑when you say standard 62 key , you mean ANSI mod right or the original layout ?
No difference in barrel positions between the Kishsaver F62 and an ANSI 62 (or ISO 62 either).

I know

But i don't want to have to open it as i am lazy

Vizir · 16 Jul 2015, 21:23

Muirium wrote: ↑Correct. The 62 key is an amazing design but just for that awful right Shift key. That's the only thing I wish to fix. HHKB style!

I agree! Although, IMO, the hhkb jp layout with smaller space and more keys is even better.

Muirium · 16 Jul 2015, 22:22

This is potentially true. I have a feeling that an HHKB JP (or indeed any decent JIS board) is in my future, so I can find out for myself. But! Finding caps for Japanese mods for these guys will be hard, especially in the same quality as the other caps. The 62's bottom row is ideal for easy coverage right now.

andrewjoy · 17 Jul 2015, 00:43

Vizir wrote: ↑
Muirium wrote: ↑Correct. The 62 key is an amazing design but just for that awful right Shift key. That's the only thing I wish to fix. HHKB style!
I agree! Although, IMO, the hhkb jp layout with smaller space and more keys is even better.

nooo

remove some mods and give it an XT spacebar!!!

Muirium · 17 Jul 2015, 00:53

You need a whole separate board for those Brobdingnagian spacebars of yours, Andy. Don't forget to pine for a waste of space fat ass Return key while you're at it!

No. Thank. You.

Vizir · 17 Jul 2015, 01:59

Make each key the whole length of the keyboard

fohat · 17 Jul 2015, 02:13

andrewjoy wrote: ↑
remove some mods and give it an XT spacebar

It's only 9.5x

You use more spaces than those silly modifiers, anyway.

Ellipse · 18 Jul 2015, 04:52

For now I expect to have 3 versions of the keyboards - F77, F62 standard, and F62 with 1.75u + 1u right shift.

Still in talks to get the case pricing down. With 200 orders I could go with die casting and I could get down to $350...

We're up to about 80 keyboards so far in total (combined F62/F77 interest) after a little over two weeks.

chzel · 18 Jul 2015, 09:07

I believe that if you leave the GB open long enough (2 months?) you could gather enough orders without too much trouble.

snoopy · 18 Jul 2015, 10:14

You sure? I think there are just not enough ibm enthusiasts... If this was about something new/fancy cherry mx related... 200 would be no problem. But for ibm, it always looks like the ibm guys are just a little minority.

chzel · 18 Jul 2015, 10:23

Of course I'm not sure! We are indeed a minority, and there is the problem with the budget. I'd like both an F77 and an F-HHKB, but there is no way I can fork out $700-800 in one go. If someone were to buy in bulk and resell at a SMALL profit, then yes, two or three months later, I could get the second.
Maybe if Ellipse puts backlight and brass weights we can attract the Korean crowd!

Madhias · 18 Jul 2015, 10:32

Hmm, that will be not easy then.

modology · 18 Jul 2015, 12:04

If we can get the first draft prototype built, and with some simple video up on youtube, I'm sure you would make lots of people to spend money on the board. After all F77. F62 Model F is perhaps the holy grail of IBM buckling spring. People have lost faith in Unicomp and if you can pull this out, I guarantee that you will get lots of orders for xmas.

bhtooefr · 18 Jul 2015, 17:59

The big thing is... if Unicomp is the keycap source, what happens if/when Unicomp gets supplanted? Can Fentek do anything other than 1x1 U? (And, I thought they only did caps for the 2-piece keys, and didn't do the stems...)

Muirium · 18 Jul 2015, 18:08

Supplanted as in wind up operations / go under? I reckon they'll do that in a few years. (It's definitely their current trajectory.) But probably not quite yet.

I'd put IBM originals on any keyboard as costly as this. Even with the wrong legends, they're visibly superior. Making our own high quality buckling spring caps remains another project.

Vizir · 19 Jul 2015, 17:34

And if someone is going to do that, I'd suggest that the caps be MX compatible.

Muirium · 19 Jul 2015, 17:38

Nice idea. But we've talked it to death. Buckling Spring sits inside the cap. MX compatibility would add a horrendous amount of extra height right on the top.

chzel · 19 Jul 2015, 17:42

Oh yeah, imagine a row 1 SA cap on top of the BS cap! On a Bigfoot with feet extended!

Muirium · 19 Jul 2015, 17:50

Sounds ergonomic. You know, like Andy's ideas for mile long spacebars and ten square unit Return keys are to compact keyboard design…

@002: Okay, I was perpetuating an old misunderstanding then. Pity. These boards really could use nicer caps. I don't like the printing, and I don't like the flimsy, shiny feel of the ABS. I'm not 100% anti ABS (just look at all my doubleshots) but the K110s are pretty crappy, even before you account for the legends. I typed on it much more during its trial with PBT Granite than I have done since. Need more adapters!

bhtooefr · 19 Jul 2015, 18:57

You can, however, create an Alps-compatible stem to go over the spring (Alps actually did it on their Supermembrane keyboards) without adding too much height (although the IBM way is still a little lower profile, and Alps made up for it by reducing travel IIRC). And, Cherry's actually made Alps-compatible MX switches.

Basically, MX compatibility is all wrong - buckling spring can't practically use it, tactile Alps can't use it. Alps compatibility is the way that everything should go IMO, if there's a push for One True Keycap Standard - buckling spring has actually used it in an actual shipping product, MX has used it in an actual shipping product.

(That said, the IBM caps are still a lower profile design than an Alps mount on buckling spring, so really, I'm against One True Keycap Standard... but I am for more Alps caps being available...)

rsbseb · 19 Jul 2015, 19:26

It's not just the mount height and style. The geometry of the caps are substantially different. The IBM caps are actually somewhat rectangular and the key top is offset. The solution is limited to factory OEM caps or specific aftermarket caps for the IBM buckling spring.

OEM style caps can be sourced from salvaged boards and Unicomp. As for aftermarket IBM caps I hope to have an official announcement sometime this week. Work on prototypes began a couple of months ago and there are some challenges with them but certainly doable Once I have some mounted and functional on my model M I will start an independent thread with pictures to discuss further development including special sizes and legends

Muirium · 19 Jul 2015, 21:23

Exciting! I want to see that thread!

@Bhtooefr: MX mount is pretty dumb for taking up so much space, but I'm no fan of Alps mount either. It's often a pain pulling caps off those buggers! Yet if you're right that Alps is somehow geometrically compatible with buckling spring's strange demands (that spring, it's right up inside the cap!) then new Alps caps become much more interesting to me. Right now the only Alps mount board that could really use a new set is my Monterey K110.

Vizir · 19 Jul 2015, 23:56

rsbseb wrote:It's not just the mount height and style. The geometry of the caps are substantially different. The IBM caps are actually somewhat rectangular and the key top is offset. The solution is limited to factory OEM caps or specific aftermarket caps for the IBM buckling spring.

OEM style caps can be sourced from salvaged boards and Unicomp. As for aftermarket IBM caps I hope to have an official announcement sometime this week. Work on prototypes began a couple of months ago and there are some challenges with them but certainly doable Once I have some mounted and functional on my model M I will start an independent thread with pictures to discuss further development including special sizes and legends

Very cool! Finally, a complete alternative to unicomp. I would like unicomp to compete, but they just refuse to.

andrewjoy · 20 Jul 2015, 10:19

rsbseb wrote: ↑ As for aftermarket IBM caps I hope to have an official announcement sometime this week. Work on prototypes began a couple of months ago and there are some challenges with them but certainly doable Once I have some mounted and functional on my model M I will start an independent thread with pictures to discuss further development including special sizes and legends

Ooo that sounds interesting!

Spherical Caps for Model F ? That would be nice if they where PBT

Redmaus · 20 Jul 2015, 10:30

andrewjoy wrote: ↑
rsbseb wrote: ↑ As for aftermarket IBM caps I hope to have an official announcement sometime this week. Work on prototypes began a couple of months ago and there are some challenges with them but certainly doable Once I have some mounted and functional on my model M I will start an independent thread with pictures to discuss further development including special sizes and legends

Ooo that sounds interesting!

Spherical Caps for Model F ? That would be nice if they where PBT

Finally non grainy keys for my model f. DSA keys would be fantastic.

scottc · 20 Jul 2015, 10:40

Redmaus wrote: ↑

Finally non grainy keys for my model f. DSA keys would be fantastic.

DSA for buckling spring? I don't know... The flat profile might work well with the keyboard's backplate but I'm not convinced it'd be any good. Tall, proper sphericals though -- now we're talking.

Khers · 20 Jul 2015, 11:06

A flat profile would be perfect for an IBM, given the curved backplate will make it sculpted. Not so sure about DSA though, not my favourite profile and I agree with Scott in that I'm not certain it will look good with the flat keycaps. Tbh, I'd prefer a straight reproduction of IBM's cylindrical with non-sculpted sphericals a close second.

andrewjoy · 20 Jul 2015, 11:31

Screw DSA, its SA i want. Thick dyesub PBT SA.

EDIT

Do any SA PBT exist for cherry ? I would be well up for that too if they did .

1391401 · 20 Jul 2015, 12:35

Sphericals. Yes.