[GB] F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards

Was wondering if it was too late to switch to the HHKB shift, if it's not that would be awesome. Sorry for bothering you so much. My order number is 2416.
BeeSawd
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Unread post29 Dec 2016, 21:43

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The working Compact Case F62 and F77 keyboard first-runs pass inspection!

The video at the bottom shows the unboxing, teardown, and typing test where I reached 100 WPM on the compact F62 and 90+ on the second test with the compact F77.

The keyboards will not look like the photos below! The cases are just the raw aluminum and do not have the hard anodized finishing. The keys are Unicomp - the new key molds are not yet ready. Please see the two metal bottom case sheets that are what the regular gray and black hard anodized options will look like. The factory did a great job on the hard anodizing - very high end looking!

The first-runs are an important part of the manufacturing process even though they add some time to the process. I have two pages of feedback for the factory so far on small improvements. You can see some of the areas that need improvement:
-Adding more holes to the compact cases to ensure a near-gapless fit between the case parts
-The top inner assembly holes for the barrels were about 0.2mm too large
-The boxes need to be a little bigger to fit the extra parts (keys, etc.)
-The boxes should have dark blue text, not black
-The bezel has too much space above the top row of keys compared to the bottom row
-The factory did not send the most recent update of the top inner assembly incorporating some small adjustments
-Flat top screws countersunk into the case should have been used everywhere
-Need better QC on the springs to match the specifications

20161229_202109.jpg

20161229_202153.jpg

20161229_202118.jpg

20161229_202134.jpg

20161229_202143.jpg

20161229_132205.jpg


Ellipse

Unread post30 Dec 2016, 03:32

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That..is...AWESOME! Can't wait. Thanks for the video and additional photos. Greatly appreciate all the work you're doing on this.
Harshmallow
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Unread post30 Dec 2016, 06:01

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That's beautiful. Certainly think I made the right choice with anodised black after all that thinking.

How heavy is the compact case F62, out of interest?
mana
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Unread post30 Dec 2016, 11:08

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mana
 
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Those are pretty sexy.. but I actually like the look of the originals better Lol. :p
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Unread post30 Dec 2016, 12:03

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beautiful! It looks like a nice modern update to the f62.

Question: I ordered a f62 with regular case, am I right in my understanding that I could also buy an extra compact case and be able to switch cases back and forth?

Also, curious what the weight of the f62 with compact case is? Thanks!

(BTW, first post here, but I lurk here, geekhack, and rmk :D ).
tvcOneFive

Unread post30 Dec 2016, 12:23

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Those look amazing, excellent work!
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Unread post30 Dec 2016, 12:40

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The compact F77 sample is 4.03lbs and the compact F62 is 3.34 lbs.

Yes twvOneFive you can order a spare compact case and you would be able to switch between the original style and ultra compact cases.
Ellipse

Unread post30 Dec 2016, 15:53

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@Ellipse: Looking good!

It would be nice to have the bare metal polished and clear-coated, but anodizing should look great as well.

Wish I had the funds to buy more!

What are your impressions of the typing sounds of the standard vs compact cases for the F62 and F77? From the videos, it sounded to me like the F62 standard was louder than the F62 compact, but it is difficult to tell from the recordings.
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Unread post30 Dec 2016, 16:52

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Can we get a gallery shot of both the original-style and compact-style cases for the F62 and F77 together?
XMIT
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Unread post30 Dec 2016, 17:01

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Ellipse wrote:The compact F77 sample is 4.03lbs and the compact F62 is 3.34 lbs.

Yes twvOneFive you can order a spare compact case and you would be able to switch between the original style and ultra compact cases.

Thanks for the reply Ellipse. One other question: Is it as simple as just pulling out the entire plate and switching over to the new case or would I need to take apart the entire board(remove pcb from plate) to switch cases?

it looks like the keyboard controllers are slightly different in the ultra compact vs the original case, is that correct?
tvcOneFive

Unread post30 Dec 2016, 17:05

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Hypersphere I would not regard the typing sounds from either video as representative of the final keyboards, as the parts provided are slightly out of spec, including the springs.

There will be no sound difference between compact and original if the cases do not resonate (I did not notice the compact case affecting the sound of the keyboards). The same parts are being used for both, save the bottom inner assembly which is the same design but less wide.

tvc you would need to take apart the keyboard to switch cases. It does not take long and I expect to make a video showing the disassembly. Everything is fully reversible unlike with the Model M.

The keyboard controllers are the same for original and compact keyboards - the factory finished making all of the pictured controllers a few months ago. The older controller was just for the prototype.

Photo comparisons are below XMIT. There is almost no empty space inside each compact case.

20161230_124545.jpg

20161230_124553.jpg
Ellipse

Unread post30 Dec 2016, 17:54

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Ellipse wrote:I have two pages of feedback for the factory so far on small improvements. You can see some of the areas that need improvement:
...
- The bezel has too much space above the top row of keys compared to the bottom row
Looks great... I am know I am probably the weirdo of the bunch, but I appreciate the asymmetry of the top and bottom you have now. I prefer symmetry from my vantage point (angled while typing).


You have probably mentioned this multiple times already, and apologize if it is a repeat (I didn't find on a quick search)... but if we were to add a compact case now that we have seen a working model, what is the latest date to add that to the previous order to have it shipped with the early bird round (or has that come and gone)?
lot_lizard
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Unread post30 Dec 2016, 18:18

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Thanks lot_lizard - I meant to say the space between the bezel and keys is a drop too much on top and that I had to move the bezel to make the gap more even.

Yes everyone can add a compact case only to their order and I will ship them together - there is no deadline just yet but I recommend getting in your order by the end of January. I will be ordering extras of everything (including fully assembled keyboards) for the early bird round and it will be first come first served while supplies last.

The first runs have taken longer than expected and since I QC rejected many of the metal parts, we will need another round of first run parts from the factory. I will not approve an out of spec part.
Ellipse

Unread post30 Dec 2016, 18:30

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@Ellipse: So, to be included in the early bird first round, we should place or revise our orders before the end of January.

Will there be a second round? If so, what do you envision the procedure and scheduling will be for the second round?
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Unread post30 Dec 2016, 19:25

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Yep there will be a final round. Not sure on the scheduling - it should last about a month or so after the early bird round ones are delivered.
Ellipse

Unread post30 Dec 2016, 21:20

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an observation. If you go with a off-white/beige case with black blank keys....that is a true storm-trooper, literally.

second...and this is a question....can you layout dates in one post? I'm a bit confused as to what is early bird vs second round vs delivery date. It seems things have shifted a bit due to QC (which is appreciated!). Thanks.
tvcOneFive

Unread post31 Dec 2016, 03:17

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tvc I recommend subscribing to updates on the www.modelfkeyboards.com site and I'll let you know when I have the dates set. You have at least one more month to place an order!

Is anyone else waiting on placing an order, now that the working compact case prototypes are here? Please let me/us know what you are waiting on or if you have any questions.
Ellipse

Unread post31 Dec 2016, 04:42

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Can you please tell me how much an F62 with the standard case weighs?
Ludovician
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Unread post31 Dec 2016, 07:47

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I think earlier he said it was around 3.4kg.
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Unread post31 Dec 2016, 14:53

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about 7.6 lbs (F62) and 8.3 lbs (F77) for the standard cases
Ellipse

Unread post31 Dec 2016, 16:18

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@Ellipse Will it be possible to get new the keycaps you are making with the APL sub-legends?
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Unread post01 Jan 2017, 06:12

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nope inyourgroove. I'd need someone to send me the letter designs and even then I wouldn't be 100% sure.

We passed $175,000 in orders!
Ellipse

Unread post01 Jan 2017, 15:25

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Ellipse wrote:
20161230_124545.jpg

20161230_124553.jpg

No comparison whatsoever, the ORIGINAL F77 casing is still to die for.

The newer Aluminum Case is quite plain and mundane like most keyboards these days containing Cherry Switches, so nothing extraordinary or unique there.

The F77 stands as the ONLY real monument to these type of Keyboards and shall be that way till the End of Time.

YES I am in love with the original like casing because once you find perfection, everything else seems so dull and tedious.
Last edited by Elrick on 01 Jan 2017, 23:34, edited 1 time in total.
Elrick
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Unread post01 Jan 2017, 23:33

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Ellipse, you need to start testing the keys with this newer casing design because fine tuning the switches with this design may be quite different compared to the original casings here.

Remember why we all purchased the Model-F keyboards in the first place which is strictly for their type feeling which is far superior to most keyboards in the World.

Please never forget that vital aspect of this whole venture.
Elrick
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Unread post01 Jan 2017, 23:34

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Elrick I am now using the new compact case prototypes as my daily drivers. So far so good despite the parts being out of my strict tolerance ranges. In the coming weeks the factory will be sending the corrected first-runs due to the small measurement errors in their current batch.

An important part of the fine tuning is the quality control of the parts - the specifications in my CAD files must match the produced parts within the tolerances the factory agreed to.

The inside design of both original and ultra compact case keyboards is actually the same - the factory is making one top inner assembly part for both compact and original case F62's, and the same for the F77's. The foam, flippers, springs, barrels, and PCB are all the same. The difference is that the bottom inner assembly is less wide in the ultra compact cases.

Both original and compact cases do not play a role in the structure of the keyboard or the way it sounds in my experience. The Model F inner assembly is fully separate and removable from each case. You can even use just the inner assembly alone with no case!
Ellipse

Unread post03 Jan 2017, 02:27

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Ellipse wrote:The Model F inner assembly is fully separate and removable from each case. You can even use just the inner assembly alone with no case!

Then maybe your next venture should be a scaffold-styled case, allowing everyone to see inside but the frame of the case done in Stainless Steel, paying homage to the original Model-F mechanical's.

Nothing better than allowing everyone the opportunity to see what makes this keyboard so famous, without it's casing getting in the way.
Elrick
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Unread post03 Jan 2017, 04:31

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So, like, a glass compact case?
mana
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Unread post03 Jan 2017, 10:28

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mana wrote:So, like, a glass compact case?

Imagine the look on your face when you drop it accidentally on the desk or floor :shock:

Then having to glue each piece back together again, my niece would probably love doing it but I would suffer a heart attack.
Elrick
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Unread post04 Jan 2017, 00:41

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Ellipse please specify clearly what colours are going to be available for this new Aluminium Casing?

It needs to be clearly written on your Model-F website as well as on this area here on DT. Not everyone will read all the postings and see what you've written on various pages.

Keep it simple and clear on the front side of this area. So people can understand what is available and at what cost.
Elrick
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Unread post04 Jan 2017, 03:34

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