Ian S wrote:Does that then accelerate at half the rate and arrives at half the velocity?
Is the energy dissipated the same? Therefore the strength of impact the same?

umm, errr, if we add more weight to the top of the same spring, then it takes less force to push it down. That means less energy is returned when the spring is released?

How do those cast metal caps feel and sound? That seems relevant.

Ian S wrote:The QPAD caps have more high frequency sound and 'amplify' the 'sandpaper' sound, whereas the Cherry double shots 'amplify' the 'tok' of the upper end stop but have not much sandpaper sound.

o right, that's good to know, thx.

possum wrote:How do those cast metal caps feel and sound? That seems relevant.

Mine make no extra sound besides the switch. They are very solid, they don't vibrate and the sides can't amplify the sound as much as the cavity resonance and the small vibrations that I think thin plastic keys get. The sound you get when you slide your hand across the keyboard is lowered as well, the rattling of plastic-type sound. Some of it is still there though, which I think comes from the switches.

Regarding post 1:

I'd put my name down a some Krytox GPL103

Seen a 0.5kg container for about $355, which is about £240.

Split into 50 x 10ml containers, that's about £6 including a small syringe + post from whoever splits the 0.5kg into the 10ml syringes.

Regarding RO-59, as most people here have already seen, I expect, it looks like it's the tm KT that must be used.

Different drying times / heat:

RO-59tm 4XO
RO-59tm 88
RO-59tm PPTX
RO-59tm P About 30 minutes About 90°C

RO-59tm RC About 15-20 minutes About 200°C

RO-59tm 88G
RO-59tm 4 About 30 minutes Or about 90°C
Natural drying overnight

RO-59tm KT About 3 minutes Or about 65°C
Natural drying overnight

I'm interested in both and willing to spend €30 on Krytox and €10 on RO-59. Thanks fossala!

Oh, we have to post our interest here too? I am in for both too. Would it be easier for you if I said €40 in total, and you can divide that as you see fit depending on what the alternatives cost?

Sorry but could someone provide a ballpark figure as to how much lube (for both the RO-59 and GPL 103) can be bought with €15?
An estimate of how many keyboards that would cover will also be very helpful information for me to gauge the relative cost of lubing all my boards.

Thanks in advance!

I put the Cherry 'vintage' double shots on my QPAD with the MX-Blues.

Straight away I preferred their sound overall.

The blues don't seem to have the 'sandpaper' sound of the Reds and seem to hit the top stop less hard, perhaps due to the detent notch having to be overcome on the way up and slowing the rise velocity a bit.

So my disliking of these caps 'amplification' of the top stop 'tok' with the Reds doesn't seem to be a factor with the Blues.

But the double shots do still seem to attenuate other treble noise and mute the click of the Blues, whereas the QPAD keycaps seem to make more apparent an annoying higher pitch component of that click.

The Cherry double shots also seem to mute a lower pitch sound too.

Also I now have confirmation of what I expected; that black or dark grey keys on a black or dark grey surround are, for me, not at all acceptable. Even in low light and even versus the backlit text, the black keys make it very hard for me to see where the keys are and find my way around the board. I kept having to stare at the black keys to see them and to find where specific keys are, now from peripheral vision I can see what's where. I do have a reading (seeing) disability; Irlen Syndrome. Also, I didn't like the blue colour back lighting but found the red was nice and didn't contract my pupils every time I looked at it as did the blue light.

Yeh thick caps change the feel of a switch quite abit, i am loving my reds with thick caps feel so much better.

tempted to buy lub now so they are like silky smooth

Okay I'm in, eventually.. €20 all in with delivery for a bit of both. Hope that's enough for a couple of keyboards.

I'm back on the MX-Reds now and with the Cherry caps. Overall I think I do prefer these caps sound, and feel,to the QPAD caps.

I think I prefer the reds to the blues too. Especially it's a sweet relief to not have that noise the blues make.

I have noticed that the first couple of mm of key travel is quite rough and the second couple doesn't have that. Though friction all the way, there seems added coarseness at the top half of travel.

Does that concur with what I think it was Limmy said about a lot of friction coming from the leaf springs rubbing on the stem?

I'm keen to get some lube on there now as I think I'm staying with the reds.

Has this group buy stalled a bit at the moment? People on they vacations?

Here are my thoughts on high caps and low caps. Pivot point and point of friction are kind of off for Cherry switches, but it conveys general idea.

Also, I think it has something to do with friction being more noticeable in the first few mm.

However, you feel more when applied force is lighter. One example of this: you feel a lot more detail when you hold a light precision driver than when you hold a heavier electric screwdriver. I noticed this when I tried to use electric screwdriver as a manual screwdriver.

I allowed for that sideways force when I was feeling for the friction.

I had previously noticed that the down arrow of the 4 cursor control key was harder to press (when playing a game) and realised that I was pulling it toward me a bit and so having the effect as in those drawings.

The Cherry switches are harder to push at an angle, you can feel the sliders, etc, gripping. I tried a 20 year old Zenith rubber dome keyboard today and there was none of that and no rattle or noise. But a hard key press required and a vast slab of desktop space stealing beige plastic, so I put it away again.

Limmy, I read that you tried on a Topre the KG8 and it's effect quickly wore off. Did you try other stuff later, ie, Krytox? 103? Did that wear off? Just in case I get a Topre board one day. Just so I can try one, I can't pay the, eg, $100 or so UK import taxes and shipping that buying a used one from the USA / Canada would incur. The 105 key UK ISO board for sale in the UK from Keyboard co is neither white key capped nor silenced. But I'll take this opportunity to note the optimum lube if there is one

When I go to the Korean links the pages show in my browser in rows of tiny numbered squares instead of English, even though English is selected at the page top. Do those pages fully translate? Do I have to get some specific font or something for Firefox to get that to work?

I've not seen any mention of GPL-203 grease instead of GPL-205. Would 203 have less, or none, of the 'sluggish' effect?

Thanks.

I began buying different kind of lube because of my 6-year-old HHKB. It became pretty hard to press if not hit on the spot. Especially the control and backspace key were problematic.

I have tried Krytox oils and grease on Topre switches and I think combination of the two works best. Using oil only also helps, but the lubricant have hard time staying on friction points. So, I combine Krytox grease and oil. Grease only kind of works, but it changes switch feel quite a bit especially when you use it on the legs of the slider. I have tried many combination until I liked the result but I did not do it in a systematic way that I can give a formula that worked. Besides, what you like maybe different from what I like. Moreover, even if you use the same lubricant the amount applied and how you apply it will result in different feel.

I have tried GPL203 with my friend in Korea. He initially over applied the grease to his Realforce and didn't like it, but after he got rid of the excess he was happy with the result. I don't think anyone beside he and I tried the GPL203. At least I didn't see any mention of it.

If you don't read Korean, your best bet would be Google translate. It shouldn't require Korean font installed. However, I don't think Google translate works good enough. When I read the translation of Korean in English I can only understand say.. 20%.

Can you recommend a product to lubricate the springs?

pasph wrote:Can you recommend a product to lubricate the springs?

LSD oil is popular choice among Korean community members.

I do not have any experience with the oil, however. I have used some silicone oil and it works pretty well in my opinion. I used Victorinox multi-tool oil and Abu Garcia reel oil, both worked fine for the purpose. The oil reduces scratching noise between plastic slider and the spring.

Try out with what you have. If it works for you then great, if you are not satisfied then try what I have suggested above.

I just bought this: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000CP ... 00_s00_i01

75W90 motor oil with LSD additives. This should last me forever =)

I hope for you that you're not olfactorily offended by the distinctive stink of car gearbox oil.

You might find that your room comes to have it's odour and any car mechanic friends you have will sniff it immediately.

I wonder why they favour it for specifically the slippage of keyboard springs?

Limmy how viscous were the oils you used? Was thicker oil better? Or oil with more creep? Would the Victorinox oil be thin(ish) with low creep (so it stays on the bearings and doesn't creep all over the tool and then the hand and pocket?

Ian S wrote:Limmy how viscous were the oils you used? Was thicker oil better? Or oil with more creep? Would the Victorinox oil be thin(ish) with low creep (so it stays on the bearings and doesn't creep all over the tool and then the hand and pocket?

The oil is rather thick. For use on springs, I think thicker oils work better.

"Victorinox Multi Tool Oil was specially developed to meet the stringent guidelines of the food industry and is non-toxic, tasteless and odourless."

Odourless

Limmy, why not use (one of) the Krytox for the springs? Krytox is too thin?

I found the Victorinox oil on-line for about £3.something. Was there a specific Silicone oil you used? I expect there are many varieties with that title.

Ian S wrote:Limmy, why not use (one of) the Krytox for the springs? Krytox is too thin?

I found the Victorinox oil on-line for about £3.something. Was there a specific Silicone oil you used? I expect there are many varieties with that title.

Reason is simple. I tried it and I didn't like it or should I say the multi-tool oil worked better in reducing noises. I think Krytox didn't dampen spring noises well enough compared to other thicker oils. I could have explored more with Krytox, but since I had cheaper solution that worked well so I didn't really bother.

About the Victorinox multi-tool oil, I think there is only one kind. I got it for cheap $3.5 with other pocket knife stuff.

Anyone out there who tried engine oils, could you get the multi-tool oil and see which one works better? The multi-tool oil is only $5 shipped on ebay. I don't think any user tried both and compared. If anyone could spare some engine oil for me to try, that could work as well. I will of course pay for shipping and the cost of container.

What happened with this? I haven't soldered the switches on the Phantom yet because I figure it would be easier to apply beforehand.

On another thread, maybe on another forum, Fossala said he had samples of RO-59 and Krytox 103 and would be selecting one of the two. Presumably not for MX switches at all but just for Topre.

Thanks. Should be pretty much the same result with topre and cherry. I can settle for either as I said earlier in this thread. I though we had reached enough of people to get the GB started.

any updates, I'm waiting for prices so I can figure out if I can afford it

Everything is on hold until 19th November. I have samples of both now, I've sent some out to people. I've still got to send a handful out to people that I have promised. My life is way to busy to handle a big group buy that will take a lot of my time. My boss got sacked for sexual harassment and atm I'm doing 2 peoples jobs. I've now got my bosses job but until the new guy starts on the 19th I'm really busy. My guess is that once I start to here feedback I will start a group buy on the one most people prefer. Sorry about dragging my heals for a couple of months, just life is being a bit of a bitch as normal.

I guess it's too late for me to jump on this? If not, I'd like to do that

If it's too late you could jump on this, unless you were looking for a specific lube:
marketplace-f11/krytox-gpl-200-t4737.html