[GB] [IC] SKBXX solid bent alu case made in Germany (60%+75%)

Myoth wrote:Wodan won't like it ... it's not ISO !! HERESY !!

sorry, I forgot, maybe this:

SKB60L-YAS-ISO.jpg
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Unread post22 Nov 2017, 22:31

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DarKou wrote:The only one true layout: HHKB! 8-)

you mean more like this:

SKB60L-HHKB.jpg
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Unread post22 Nov 2017, 22:38

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6U spacebar please! :D

But yes, a thing like this :p
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Unread post22 Nov 2017, 23:02

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DarKou wrote:6U spacebar please! :D

But yes, a thing like this :p

is it never ever gonna be good enough for you :lol:

most would use a GH60 / SATAN PCB. I think this can only do HHKB style with 7U, right?
I'm not aware of a widely available 60% PCB that supports HHKB-6U-spacebar layout.
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Unread post22 Nov 2017, 23:26

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PlastikSchnittstelle wrote:
DarKou wrote:6U spacebar please! :D

But yes, a thing like this :p

is it never ever gonna be good enough for you :lol:

most would use a GH60 / SATAN PCB. I think this can only do HHKB style with 7U, right?
I'm not aware of a widely available 60% PCB that supports HHKB-6U-spacebar layout.

Most MX HHKB use 7U spacebar because it's really more simple to find a keyset, but the HHKB layout use a 6U spacebar.

In fact I prefer 6U spacebar but if you can't make a case with a 6U spacebar, HHKB with 7U spacebar is a good alternative for me also!
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Unread post23 Nov 2017, 06:53

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PlastikSchnittstelle wrote:
DarKou wrote:6U spacebar please! :D

But yes, a thing like this :p

is it never ever gonna be good enough for you :lol:

most would use a GH60 / SATAN PCB. I think this can only do HHKB style with 7U, right?
I'm not aware of a widely available 60% PCB that supports HHKB-6U-spacebar layout.

The 6U off-center spacebar uses the same switch position as the 7U spacebar. So if the PCB supports WKL layout as well as 1.25, 1.25, 1.25, 6.25, 1.5, 1, 1, 1.5 layouts you should be golden as long as you use plate mounted stabs. Off the shelf at least the DZ60 and GH60 would work with it, and quite probably some others as well.
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Unread post23 Nov 2017, 08:27

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pomk wrote:The 6U off-center spacebar uses the same switch position as the 7U spacebar. So if the PCB supports WKL layout as well as 1.25, 1.25, 1.25, 6.25, 1.5, 1, 1, 1.5 layouts you should be golden as long as you use plate mounted stabs. Off the shelf at least the DZ60 and GH60 would work with it, and quite probably some others as well.

ok, so I'm not 100% sure about this. This 6.25U-SB HHKB-Style would definitely be possible, right?:

GH60-HHKB-6.25U-SB.png

but you mean this, right?:

GH60-HHKB-6U-SB.png

Does this really work? any picture of a build?

Here is the (6U-SB) RAW data for keyboard layout editor, so you can try as well:

Code: Select all
["Esc","!\n1","@\n2","#\n3","$\n4","%\n5","^\n6","&\n7","*\n8","(\n9",")\n0","_\n-","+\n=","|\n\\","~\n`"],
[{w:1.5},"Tab","Q","W","E","R","T","Y","U","I","O","P","{\n[","}\n]",{w:1.5},"Backspace"],
[{w:1.75},"Control","A","S","D","F","G","H","J","K","L",":\n;","\"\n'",{w:2.25},"Enter"],
[{w:2.25},"Shift","Z","X","C","V","B","N","M","<\n,",">\n.","?\n/",{w:1.75},"Shift","Fn"],
[{x:1.25,w:1.25},"Alt",{w:1.25},"Opt",{a:7,w:6},"",{a:4,w:1.25},"Opt","Alt"]
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Unread post26 Nov 2017, 16:28

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Standard bottom rows :
1.25 1.25 1.25 6.25 1.25 1.25 1.25 1.25 (Poker)
1.5 1 1.5 6 1.5 1 1 1.5
1.5 1 1.5 7 1.5 1 1.5

But you can also make :
1 - 1.25 - 6.25 - 1.25 - 1 (works on some PCB like GH60 and S60-X )

Exemple for a 6U HHKB on DZ60 :
Image

S60-X with 1 - 1.25 - 6.25 - 1.25 - 1
Image
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Unread post26 Nov 2017, 17:38

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OK, thanks, so 6U SB is possible with this PCB:
https://kbdfans.myshopify.com/products/dz60-60-pcb

but I'm still quite reserved regarding this. I already have many different parts. subdividing even more would drive up the price just too much. so I think I'll have to stick with one HHKB style offering. not sure jet, I'll watch the discussion here and on geekhack regarding this before I make a final decision.
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Unread post26 Nov 2017, 18:09

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Yes it's possible with the DZ60 PCB (Tina-A version for example).

If you want only produce one kind of HHKB I think 7U is the good choice because 7U spacebar can be found in many manufacturer/profiles (GMK, SA, DSA...).
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Unread post26 Nov 2017, 18:24

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DarKou wrote:
PlastikSchnittstelle wrote:
DarKou wrote:6U spacebar please! :D

But yes, a thing like this :p

is it never ever gonna be good enough for you :lol:

most would use a GH60 / SATAN PCB. I think this can only do HHKB style with 7U, right?
I'm not aware of a widely available 60% PCB that supports HHKB-6U-spacebar layout.

Most MX HHKB use 7U spacebar because it's really more simple to find a keyset, but the HHKB layout use a 6U spacebar.

In fact I prefer 6U spacebar but if you can't make a case with a 6U spacebar, HHKB with 7U spacebar is a good alternative for me also!

I can live with 7u M0110 style; but, I'd prefer the 6u HHKB one.

My old friend in M0110 style:

Image
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Unread post26 Nov 2017, 20:21

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ideus wrote:
DarKou wrote:
PlastikSchnittstelle wrote:
I can live with 7u M0110 style; but, I'd prefer the 6u HHKB one.

My old friend in M0110 style:

[img*]https://i.imgur.com/xxfZLrP.jpg[/img]

Same for me! :D

6U for life! :mrgreen:
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Unread post26 Nov 2017, 20:47

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PLATE LAYOUTS!

I had mentioned my plans regarding the plate layouts before. I'll put up another form to determine what the most popular layouts are. The most popular layouts will get a dedicated, non-universal plate!!!
the less popular ones will be bundled together in a universal plate.
before I'll put up a form for this I wanna get you opinions about the layouts that should be up to choose from. wanna sort out mistakes before the form so it wont be confusing. so this is what I think would be up to choose from:
60% options:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=92...msg2526980

yep, sorry you have to look over at GH for this. uploaded all the pics there already. just tried here as well but uploading many pics is even more painful here. damn, I really should have used imgur right from the start, so I could have linked from DT and GH to just ONE source.

regarding HHKB.
Until now I wasn't aware, that also 6U "true HHKB" isn't hard to do. there are PCBs for that available too, like the DZ60 for example. btw here is the link to a really nice keycap GB which is especially tailored to HHKB.
so for all who are interested in an HHKB version, please let me know which would be more to your liking, 7U or 6U:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=92...msg2527025

60% YAS options:
if you haven't realized already: silentreader and me are planing to work out a combined shipping for all who want YAS. probably also more YAS PCBs. if you aren't part of the YAS GB and want one, then please comment.
now the options for the YAS PCB (yes, missing is for all the version with 2x1U instead of the 2U-Backspace):
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=92...msg2526985

and now the expected options for 75%:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=92...msg2526990

so now, I need all to check if your desired layout is part of the ones I just postet. If there are layouts which I missed, let me know, best you would post a pic from keyboard layout editor like i did. if it's not too exotic it will also be available in an upcoming form which will decide which layouts will get custom plates and which will get unified plates.

note:
you don't need to decide between centered vs stepped capslock. ALL plates will have a cutout to support both.

let's see if you are happy with the proposed layouts. if so, another upcoming google form will put them all together and you can then make a choice. then we'll know which layouts get their dedicated plate.
yes, i know, i'm repeating myself a lot, but i realized that is good because many just don't read through all the posts - wich i can absolutely understand.
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Unread post26 Nov 2017, 22:27

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pomk wrote:That's a pretty clever design! Would like to see countersunk screws or some very low profile ones though (like these: https://uk.misumi-ec.com/vona2/detail/110302280540/ ).

i totally fell in love with these screws, thank you very much for that hint!
the new renderings for the 75% case (just updated the starting post) have them.

btw, what do you think about the keycap colors? yes, all actual GMK colors, of course.
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Unread post26 Nov 2017, 22:32

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Wow, that 75% case looks amazing!
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Unread post01 Dec 2017, 23:12

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very interesting project. will totally order one or two :)
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Unread post02 Dec 2017, 21:50

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Hi I'm back,
sorry for not posting for some time now. I just didn't want to bore you with more "maybe" stuff. Also this has been much more time-consuming that I had imagined it to be before I started this. Just can't dedicate 100% of my lifetime for this.
Now enough whining, I got some new info. Not everything is jet sorted out to actually start the GB phase but we are getting there.

It will be bead-blasted:

As you know the prototype is just anodized. You can still see a lot of marks and the "direction" of the sheet. Also fingerprints are very visible.
Bead-blasting before anodizing gives a much nicer surface finish and that is something you would expect when you pay 100+ for a keyboard case. Without the finish this would probably become a big point to complain about after you get it.
Of course that adds cost but not terribly much.

No countersunk screws:

Yes - some of you may have seen this as part of the overall charm when you saw the first renderings. Don't know how to put this in englisch, let's say countersunk might be a little error-prone. The holes are pre-cut by the laser. This means there can't be no precise mark for putting the drill down. It probably won't be a problem 90% of the time but I'd like to avoid potential problems as much as possible.
Also, many of you like other screws and not going with countersunk means you can choose from a variety of different screws afterwards.

Order step size:

Don't wanna bore you with too much details and why but there will be a fixed amount of orders. The minimum order to reach would roughly be:
46 x 60% (including the various versions)
26 x 75%

if there is more interest, then we will have to reach exactly double the amount:
92 x 60% (including the various versions)
52 x 75%

after that it would be:
138 x 60% (including the various versions)
78 x 75%

I can alter the ratio of 60% to 75% cases according to demand.

Pricing:

If you have followed this from the start, then you know that at the beginning this was meant to lead to a classic group buy: one bottom-part, one top-part, one uni-plate. That is what the initial pricing is referring to.
Then I mentioned my wish to deliver not just one universal plate but different and more customized plates to give just better plates. Then I gave in to the wishes for TKL, HHKB and even 75%. That leads to many different parts with probably less high individual order quantity. Everyone who knows a bit about production, knows that this is more expensive. The combined order of all the different versions together instead of splitting them up into separate GB-runs can compensate a bit but not so much.
It is also absolutely impossible for me to name a specific price due to the fact that the order will consist of many different parts and the exact amount of each of those parts I can only tell until after GB is up and actual orders are in. Only then the factory will calculate a price. Together with the factory I tried to narrow down a price range. The final price will be somewhere in that range, also depending on the order step size of course.
That range is:
120 - 180 (in Euro)
This is a very conservative estimate - I'm pretty sure it will end up in the lower spectrum of the range.

Next:

I will hopefully soon put up the google form where you can choose you preferred layout. Based on the outcome I will then determine which layouts will get a dedicated plate and which ones will be combined into a unified plate.
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Unread post06 Dec 2017, 17:21

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finally I've put together the 3rd form. there you can choose which layout you would like to have.

LINK

just edited the form quickly. now there is also an option to say "No" to the versions you don't want. for example like when you just want an HHKB style case but not the standard 60 and not WKL and not YAS nor 75%. before you had to make at least one layout choice for each of the different versions.

just to be absolutely clear here:
of course not everybody can get a plate which supports only exactly the one layout he wants. the form should determine the most popular versions - these will get e dedicated/non-unified plate. the rest will be combined in a plate with a more unified layout.
this way I hope to be able to provide the majority with a really awesome plate (hopefully the form will show clear winners).
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Unread post08 Dec 2017, 16:38

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Form filled!

HHKB rules! :D
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Unread post08 Dec 2017, 18:06

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PlastikSchnittstelle wrote:finally I've put together the 3rd form. there you can choose which layout you would like to have.

LINK

just edited the form quickly. now there is also an option to say "No" to the versions you don't want. for example like when you just want an HHKB style case but not the standard 60 and not WKL and not YAS nor 75%. before you had to make at least one layout choice for each of the different versions.

just to be absolutely clear here:
of course not everybody can get a plate which supports only exactly the one layout he wants. the form should determine the most popular versions - these will get e dedicated/non-unified plate. the rest will be combined in a plate with a more unified layout.
this way I hope to be able to provide the majority with a really awesome plate (hopefully the form will show clear winners).

It makes sense, any render of the two possible options? Remember that a picture worth a thousand words.
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Unread post08 Dec 2017, 22:18

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Filled the form for the 75% boards, I'd be happy with the 3x1.25u 6.25u 3x1u 3x1u bottom row, but I'd love to see this option:
75% 7u spacebar.PNG
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Unread post08 Dec 2017, 22:39

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ideus wrote:It makes sense, any render of the two possible options? Remember that a picture worth a thousand words.

which "two possible options" do you mean? you mean which one is the more customized and wich the more unified version? If you mean that - I didn't say it would be exactly two, might be more. Also you have to distinguish between the different versions - I'll try to give each a special version. So there might be quite a few different plates. Of course I can only say after the google form has collected enough votes, then I can make renderings again.

Or do you mean something different?
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Unread post08 Dec 2017, 23:20

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Nuum wrote:Filled the form for the 75% boards, I'd be happy with the 3x1.25u 6.25u 3x1u 3x1u bottom row, but I'd love to see this option:
75% 7u spacebar.PNG

hate to say no but for this one I'll have to. it would require a different top part for the 75%, the small blocker part, u know what I mean. the 75% will be kept simple, so no different top parts.
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Unread post08 Dec 2017, 23:22

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Oh yeah, didn't realize that, sorry! Makes sense to have just one top piece for all 75% layouts, if the demand isn't all that big.
Actually I see now that I forgot to have the left shift split for a standard ISO layout, but it doesn't matter, since it is out of the race anyway.
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Unread post08 Dec 2017, 23:31

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just to keep you updated:
I'm doing the plates the last days. Damn I gotta tell you there is a lot I didn't had a clue of. but don't worry, there is nothing difficult about it. it's just getting to know and comfortable with it.
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Unread post11 Dec 2017, 23:32

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PlastikSchnittstelle wrote:
ideus wrote:It makes sense, any render of the two possible options? Remember that a picture worth a thousand words.

which "two possible options" do you mean? you mean which one is the more customized and wich the more unified version? If you mean that - I didn't say it would be exactly two, might be more. Also you have to distinguish between the different versions - I'll try to give each a special version. So there might be quite a few different plates. Of course I can only say after the google form has collected enough votes, then I can make renderings again.

Or do you mean something different?


I re-read your comment: it speaks off a one unified plate and the other non-unified, those were what I referred to as two options, but no such thing, there will be more than two options, so it would be better to wait for the final feedback to have renders developed. Thank you for your answer.
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Unread post12 Dec 2017, 16:44

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So the last days I was doing the plates. I have to admit that there was a lot I wasn't aware of. I'll try to keep it short.

Let's start with the layouts. As you know, I don't like it when plates get flimsy because too many layouts got unified. Now I realize, that combining the most common layouts possible with a GH60 PCB, the plate actually doesn't look that bad. So to stick to my promise I decided to do separate ANSI and ISO plates for the standard 60% - that seems to be the best possible solution to give you a solid plate.
Next is stabilizers. I have to admit I wasn't aware that combining plate & pcb mount stabs isn't gonna work - at least not if you want the plate mount stabs to fit tightly. The plate for the prototype was made for one specific layout, so I didn't had to think about that at the time. Now I know, that there is a reason why so many of you voted for PCB mount stabs in the first poll - they are basically the only option if your plate is not 100% on single layout. So I googled a lot about pcb mount stabs, took apart an old G80 to get genuine cherry pcb stabs, measured them and scratched my head again. Trying not to elaborate too much right now, so one point I didn't like about pcb stabs was the fact, that if you screw up something with the stabs during your build, or even forget to put them in completely (you know stuff like that happens even to the best of us), well that you have to unsolder every single switch. So I'm wasn't quite happy having to make a pcb mount stab plate, knowing to cause quite some drama down the road if the stabs are not set up perfectly from the very beginning. But all of a sudden a unicorn turned up in wodan's backyard. Its poop revealed some quite interesting details. That old nixie plate has some really big cutouts around the stabs. Seeing that made perfect sens to me, its bigger cutouts make it possible to get the pcb stabs out afterwards and only one switch would have to be unsoldered. So I decided to go for big cutouts around the stabs.
Maybe that is something some of you were already aware of - I wasn't and now I told you the story how I found out about it :)
If the cutouts are actually big enough for removing the pcb mount stabs is something I can't guarantee, I'll investigate more to make sure.
Now the different plates I came up with so far. ANSI and ISO separated for GH60 PCBs. For YAS the bottom row options are so many I had to make two different plates otherwise we'd get just one huge cutout for the whole bottom row. I even dumped some unlikely layouts - lesser but better. The lower request for YAS doesn't justify ANSI/ISO separation. 75% has to get a unified plate. Not a bad thing in this case because there aren't too many options anyway. I dumped the option for the L-nav-cluster, I guess everyone is fine with that.
Made some graphics, assigning the possible layouts to the different plates. Only the layouts most obvious to me are shown, of course some more mixtures of those are possible, you get it.
Also, cause the case inside offers much space for the plate it has more surface area at the sides, giving it even more strength. Especially plates for tray mount cases suffer from the tiny space at the sides.
Enough, here are the plates. Nothing fixed as of now of course, changes may come, what do you think?
SKB60-PLATE-ANSI.png

SKB60-PLATE-ISO.png

SKB60-PLATE-YAS-A.png

SKB60-PLATE-YAS-B.png

SKB75-PLATE-UNI.png
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Unread post13 Dec 2017, 22:42

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Took a look at the banana split pcb. Actually I had considered joining the gb but didn't cause I had already joined YAS at the time. Since Draic asked and because banana split seems to be quite successful, I added split spacebar support to the ISO and ANSI plates.

Regarding YAS support. I'd really like to offer two separate YAS plates but doing four different plates just for the 60% versions is just too much. It would drive the price up significantly although the demand for YAS doesn't justify it. So I had to unite the YAS options into one plate (only YAS 7U spacebar version not supported, and one other, not sure which now). With that came the possibility to use some more banana layouts with this same plate as well and also layouts from the DZ60 pcb (more split spacebars and dedicated arrow clusters). Some but not specifically all possibilities are shown in the new graphics.

Fixed some errors in the plates as well :)
Since there weren't any other complaints nor suggestions regarding the plates, I think there isn't that much left to do now. Approaching GB status!

This is how it looks right now:
SKB60-PLATE-ANSI.png

SKB60-PLATE-ISO.png

SKB60-PLATE-DZ60-YAS-BANANA-UNI.png

SKB75-PLATE-UNI.png
PlastikSchnittstelle
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Unread post17 Dec 2017, 22:29

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PlastikSchnittstelle
 
Posts: 251
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Favorite switch: it's difficult
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Any chance that it will be possible to have a arrow key cluster in the lower right of the 60% boards?

Something like this (ISO version):
keyboard-layout (2).jpg


The highligted keys are the most important, the layout of the rest of the bottom row is not that important for me. But standard 1.25u caps on the left side and 6.25u space is nice for keycap compatibility though.
FSund
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Unread post18 Dec 2017, 08:42

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FSund
 
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@FSund
This is a BananaSplit layout. Isn’t it?
Menuhin

Unread post18 Dec 2017, 10:42

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Menuhin
 
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HHKB Pro 2 black blank // ThinkPad USB Keyboard with TrackPoint (SK-8855)
[Typing slowly at ~80WPM, in love with Emacs]
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