deskthority

balotz wrote: ↑

Spoiler:

Menuhin wrote: ↑

Mattr567 wrote: ↑Looks can be deceiving So happy I managed to get this for a steal.

Switches are in perfect shape!

I like those caps!

By the way, I like black pines - they are from the lineage of non-dampened cream alps, and I like black pines most, perhaps followed by brown pines (just the SKCM).
Black bamboos are totally different stories, most people (I mean those who have an interest / focus on Alps switches for some time) can tell bamboos and pines blind-folded - because of much more serious 'binding' of keys when a key press is even just slightly off-center. I have no interest to own or to touch a keyboard with Alps bamboo switches - unless, say, when Matias claims he has drastically improved the design to resemble the properties / feel of the pines.

I have quite a few NOS Dell AT101w boards with bamboo black Alps, and there is no binding. I'm pretty sure this is down to the condition of the switch rather than the design of the top housing, as I've also seen pine Whites which bind horribly, on a dirty board.

Also w.r.t the smoothness of Alps switches in general - the blacks are generally regarded as 'rough' feeling, but when the tactile leaf is removed, they become incredibly smooth.

I agree that Alps switches are highly susceptible to their conditions, and filthy pines can feel real bad as a result.

I can still challenge anyone that there is an easily noticeable difference between the pine version and the bamboo version of any supposedly the same model of Alps switch, based on my not to many but a handful of experience comparing NOS or near NOS condition pines vs their bamboos counterparts - that can be told by testers in randomized conditions, I conjecture.
Well, 'binding' is not the end of the world. By 'binding', it does not mean the switches are totally stuck or sticking for every key press.

Just would like the experts at Alps switches to chime in here and answer a question.

Have two images;

Are both equal Alps switches or is one inferior to the other in build or finish?

Elrick wrote: ↑Just would like the experts at Alps switches to chime in here and answer a question.

Have two images;

IMG_232.PNG

IMG_231.JPG

Are both equal Alps switches or is one inferior to the other in build or finish?

Well...the first one actually isn't Alps at all:

wiki/SMK_Alps_mount

Also note that this particular white SMK switch is clicky. It is not the tactile variant found in ADB keyboards.

Polecat wrote: ↑Well...the first one actually isn't Alps at all:

wiki/SMK_Alps_mount

Oh right.....it's a sub standard Monterey switch.

Is it well below par to the standard complicated White Alps switch?

Elrick wrote: ↑

Polecat wrote: ↑Well...the first one actually isn't Alps at all:

wiki/SMK_Alps_mount

Oh right.....it's a sub standard Monterey switch.

Is it well below par to the standard complicated White Alps switch?

I only have one keyboard with (blue) Monterey switches, a Mitac in well-used condition. I'm personally biased towards Alps, but others may prefer the Montereys.

Polecat wrote: ↑I only have one keyboard with (blue) Monterey switches, a Mitac in well-used condition. I'm personally biased towards Alps, but others may prefer the Montereys.

Thanks for the heads up, didn't even know that you have these so-called Alps clone like switches, inhabiting the Keyboard world.

The funny thing is that even these 'Monterey's' fetch similar pricing to traditional Alps switches on Flebay, which is worrying.

Elrick wrote: ↑

Polecat wrote: ↑I only have one keyboard with (blue) Monterey switches, a Mitac in well-used condition. I'm personally biased towards Alps, but others may prefer the Montereys.

Thanks for the heads up, didn't even know that you have these so-called Alps clone like switches, inhabiting the Keyboard world.

The funny thing is that even these 'Monterey's' fetch similar pricing to traditional Alps switches on Flebay, which is worrying.

Don't write off the SMK switch so quickly. It's one of the better clicky switches out there. And I wouldn't consider it an Alps clone really. It is rather unique. You might even like it better than white Alps.

Tuntematon wrote: ↑Don't write off the SMK switch so quickly. It's one of the better clicky switches out there. And I wouldn't consider it an Alps clone really. It is rather unique. You might even like it better than white Alps.

Has Chyros or some other individual, done a video showing these switches in action as of yet?

Would love to see/hear it in action with it's general sound and actuation.

Elrick wrote: ↑

Tuntematon wrote: ↑Don't write off the SMK switch so quickly. It's one of the better clicky switches out there. And I wouldn't consider it an Alps clone really. It is rather unique. You might even like it better than white Alps.

Has Chyros or some other individual, done a video showing these switches in action as of yet?

Would love to see/hear it in action with it's general sound and actuation.

It made his Top 5 clicky switch list, so he's a fan.

I don't find the sound to be a strong point. It is high-pitched and for me becomes irritating or fatiguing over time. And it lacks that nice thock that you get on bottoming out with Alps switches. The force curve is a little noisy too (see Haata's chart) and this is noticeable if you're being analytical. But overall the key feel is crisp and pleasant. It easily beats the various Alps clones, simplified Alps, and bamboo white Alps. Put it in the ring with some top notch pine white or blue Alps, and well, blue Alps is the clear winner for me. But I think it competes well in the upper tier of clicky switches.

Tuntematon wrote: ↑ It made his Top 5 clicky switch list, so he's a fan.

I don't find the sound to be a strong point. It is high-pitched and for me becomes irritating or fatiguing over time. Put it in the ring with some top notch pine white or blue Alps, and well, blue Alps is the clear winner for me. But I think it competes well in the upper tier of clicky switches.

Thanks for that detailed description. Already bought an SMK switched keyboard, waiting upon delivery. Didn't really know anything about it but guessed (wrongly) it was an Alps type and felt it was in fact some type of cheap clone.

Shall indeed hook it up and try it out in person when it arrives .

Elrick wrote: ↑

Tuntematon wrote: ↑ It made his Top 5 clicky switch list, so he's a fan.

I don't find the sound to be a strong point. It is high-pitched and for me becomes irritating or fatiguing over time. Put it in the ring with some top notch pine white or blue Alps, and well, blue Alps is the clear winner for me. But I think it competes well in the upper tier of clicky switches.

Thanks for that detailed description. Already bought an SMK switched keyboard, waiting upon delivery. Didn't really know anything about it but guessed (wrongly) it was an Alps type and felt it was in fact some type of cheap clone.

Shall indeed hook it up and try it out in person when it arrives .

The switch was definitely inspired by Alps, but have lots of character of their own.

Elrick wrote: ↑Are both equal Alps switches or is one inferior to the other in build or finish?

The first one is SKBM White, made by Forward Electronics, AKA simplified Alps. It's real Alps in the sense that they started out Alps branded, but that one is from after the Alps branding was removed (instead it just says "FD" on the bottom).

They are not great switches — instead of a single tactile bump, there are (at least) two, one intentional, one unintentional, and they ping like crazy. They're too heavy, don't have a clean force curve, and especially in that chassis, sound terrible.

It's not SKBM, it's SMK as noted above. I like SMK switches but they are even more uncommon than Alps so I've never paid much attention to them.

Oh, sorry, the second one I meant. The one that is obviously SKBM …

Elrick wrote: ↑

Tuntematon wrote: ↑ It made his Top 5 clicky switch list, so he's a fan.

I don't find the sound to be a strong point. It is high-pitched and for me becomes irritating or fatiguing over time. Put it in the ring with some top notch pine white or blue Alps, and well, blue Alps is the clear winner for me. But I think it competes well in the upper tier of clicky switches.

Thanks for that detailed description. Already bought an SMK switched keyboard, waiting upon delivery. Didn't really know anything about it but guessed (wrongly) it was an Alps type and felt it was in fact some type of cheap clone.

Shall indeed hook it up and try it out in person when it arrives .

I actually really like those smk switches. You can also get them in cherry mx mount.
They are a lot like alps, with some differences. The tactility is sharper, the click is not as loud, and they are lighter(than alps white). They are weighted like blue alps, but with sharper tactility.
I am not sure about the alps mount version, but the cherry mx mount version is a very stable switch, many keys do not need stabilization, like the left shift and the backspace key.

I am a genius Workshop thread soon to come.

And yes, thats a Multistation with a full-sized stabilized spacebar

But that default bottom row with three easy-to-reach thumb keys, it's nice no? Wasn't working for you?

At some point I'll have some Alps builds too. Just haven't gotten around to it yet.

Tuntematon wrote: ↑But that default bottom row with three easy-to-reach thumb keys, it's nice no? Wasn't working for you?

Nah I need a bigger spacebar than that xD

Its amazing how well it fits, no mods to the plate. 5140 5.5U spacebar used.

Just another question here for the Alps Experts.

Was going to buy some new springs off Flebay but I have no idea what spring rate to choose. Here are the springs produced by SPRiT.

- Designed by Actuation force

- 30cN Actuation

- 35cN Actuation

- 40cN Actuation

- 45cN Actuation

- 50cN Actuation

- 55cN Actuation

- 60cN Actuation

- 65cN Actuation

- 70cN Actuation

- 85cN Actuation

- 100cN Actuation

- 125cN Actuation

- 150cN Actuation

So which one will I need to get so it mimics the Blue Alps feel?

You are going to "buy new springs" … for what, exactly? Blue Alps's feel comes from not one but three springs: a helical return spring, a leaf spring for the click and tactile feel, and a leaf spring that works the contacts. The contacts are also springy: you have a flat plastic prong that applies pressure to a foil membrane. My feeling is that the return spring is fairly light, as there is not a huge amount of force after you clear the click leaf.

Elrick wrote: ↑Just another question here for the Alps Experts.

Was going to buy some new springs off Flebay but I have no idea what spring rate to choose. Here are the springs produced by SPRiT.

- Designed by Actuation force

- 30cN Actuation

- 35cN Actuation

- 40cN Actuation

- 45cN Actuation

- 50cN Actuation

- 55cN Actuation

- 60cN Actuation

- 65cN Actuation

- 70cN Actuation

- 85cN Actuation

- 100cN Actuation

- 125cN Actuation

- 150cN Actuation

So which one will I need to get so it mimics the Blue Alps feel?

You are talking about spirit springs I assume. I contacted the seller about Alps Browns as I wanted to lighten them up a bit and this is what he had to say

Hello Mike,

So sorry for the delay. I have been on my biz trip.
Brown linear is 75g, Green linear is 55g toal.

So you can choose under 50cN

thank you

The math works out to the switch plate leaf spring applies about 5g of force and the rounded spring applies about 10g of force, these are rough actuation force numbers but I think the same could be applied to switches with click leafs. Basically look at Haata's blue alps graph, check the actuation force and subtract 15ish grams. I assume you are trying to turn amber alps into something closer to blue alps or what? I would guess that blue alps have the same(similar) spring as the spirit 50cN springs.

Edit: just found this from his site

- 30cN None [SPRiT Ultra Light Edition]
- 35cN None [SPRiT Ultra Light Edition]
- 40cN Black Tactile Wang 725
- 45cN Green Linear, Amber Linear, Matias Linear & Tactile
- 50cN Yellow Linear, Orange Tactile, Black Tactile Dell
- 55cN Blue Clicky, White Clicky, Salmon Tactile, Cream Damped
- 60cN -
- 65cN Cream Linear
- 70cN Amber Clicky, Brown Linear, Brown Tactile
- 85cN Gray Linear
- 100cN -
- 125cN Gray Heavy Linear
- 150cN None [SPRiT Super Heavy Edition]

Not sure how much I trust the numbers but its better then a guess

codemonkeymike wrote: ↑ The math works out to the switch plate leaf spring applies about 5g of force and the rounded spring applies about 10g of force, these are rough actuation force numbers but I think the same could be applied to switches with click leafs. Basically look at Haata's blue alps graph, check the actuation force and subtract 15ish grams. I assume you are trying to turn amber alps into something closer to blue alps or what? I would guess that blue alps have the same(similar) spring as the spirit 50cN springs.

Suspect this is going to be one of those "buy it and see" ventures. Try a number of springs inside an Alps switch to see which one works with the feeling you want.

codemonkeymike wrote: ↑ Edit: just found this from his site

- 30cN None [SPRiT Ultra Light Edition]
- 35cN None [SPRiT Ultra Light Edition]
- 40cN Black Tactile Wang 725
- 45cN Green Linear, Amber Linear, Matias Linear & Tactile
- 50cN Yellow Linear, Orange Tactile, Black Tactile Dell
- 55cN Blue Clicky, White Clicky, Salmon Tactile, Cream Damped
- 60cN -
- 65cN Cream Linear
- 70cN Amber Clicky, Brown Linear, Brown Tactile
- 85cN Gray Linear
- 100cN -
- 125cN Gray Heavy Linear
- 150cN None [SPRiT Super Heavy Edition]

Not sure how much I trust the numbers but its better then a guess

Cheers for the above info, shall be buying the springs closely related to Blues and a couple below that spring rate. Have to customize an old 'dirty' Dell Black Alps keyboard into something far better than what it came with. Saw Chyros's video on how to make a Dell 'Clicky' but also need to change the internal springs as well.

This is going to be the BIGGEST modification to date for me but I've seen other samples on the net, showing real decent modifications of old Dell Big Foot's.

Thanks for the info and a point in the right direction. Never thought that I would ever get involved with any Alps keyboard to this degree in my Life.

This board is so clean. I finally know the feeling of pristine alps. It's so beautiful.

idlethock wrote: ↑

This board is so clean. I finally know the feeling of pristine alps. It's so beautiful.

That is very nice. Is that one from the stock of NOS ones they found a while ago?

(typing this on my green Alps Zenith)

idlethock wrote: ↑This board is so clean. I finally know the feeling of pristine alps. It's so beautiful.

Very nice indeed, looks a lot nicer than my Z-KB 2.

Looks a lot like the Microterm 5510s I've owned.

My new love





Definitely my new favorite alps switch, I just couldnt get on with the other alps linears like yellows and greens. these however are super nice, due to the weighting and the softer bottom out.

mike52787 wrote: ↑My new love.

Definitely my new favorite alps switch, I just couldnt get on with the other alps linears like yellows and greens. these however are super nice, due to the weighting and the softer bottom out.

I'm still missing bown Alps i my collection although I have some waitnig for me in the US. Real nice your Epson.