Hirose Cherry switches and the Xerox 1109
- Daniel Beardsmore
- Location: Hertfordshire, England
- Main keyboard: Filco Majestouch 1 (home)/Poker II backlit (work)
- Main mouse: MS IMO 1.1
- Favorite switch: Probably not whatever I wrote here
- DT Pro Member: -
- Contact:
I found this tab from way back — MouseFan's Sord M243EX keyboard page (someone here may have pointed me at it; I forget now):
http://www7.ocn.ne.jp/~hisao/image/M243EX.htm
MouseFan suggests that the "HCP" written on the switches stands for "Hirose Cherry Precision", the full name of Hirose Cherry AKA Cherry Japan.
Right now, we have:
1) Tradition
[wiki]Hirose Cherry MX Orange[/wiki] — standard key switch, linear
[wiki]Hirose Cherry MX Clear[/wiki] — space bar switch, linear
2) Sord M243EX
The switch in the Sord M243EX appears to be Hirose Cherry mount and appears to be clear, but used for a whole keyboard. Linear again. Same switch as Hirose Cherry MX Clear, above?
3) Xerox 1109 Type 2 Lisp workstation keyboard
[wiki]Cherry MX Linear White[/wiki]
[wiki]Cherry MX Pale Yellow[/wiki]
[wiki]Cherry MX Grey Green[/wiki]
[wiki]Cherry MX Lock[/wiki]
MX Linear White looks clear to me, not white (though MX White switches have been both colours), and all but MX Lock quite clearly have smaller keystems:
[wiki]Xerox Star low-profile keyboard[/wiki]
Most of the photos aren't quite sharp enough to be 100% confident that it's the Hirose Cherry mount, but it certainly looks to be that way. Also, kps's Xerox keyboard was made in Japan, which ties in with it having Hirose switches.
Since the main keyboard switch appears to be white/clear, the switches are presumably the same as those in the Sord M243EX.
What's interesting is that the Xerox keyboard also has the same "HCP" branding on most switches as in the Sord, and the same HCP/Cherry mix and match.
It's hard to be sure, but MouseFan seems to think late 1984/early 1985 for that Sord, i.e. very early in the Cherry MX lifetime, exactly as with the Xerox.
Questions
1. Is it likely that the same switch was used for the normal keys in one keyboard, and space bar in another? In other words, should I merge Cherry MX Linear White into Hirose Cherry MX Clear?
2. Are we happy that "HCP" means "Hirose Cherry Precision"? If so, then the remaining two HCP switches should be renamed, giving us as follows:
[wiki]Cherry MX Linear White[/wiki] ⇒ [wiki]Hirose Cherry MX Clear[/wiki]
[wiki]Cherry MX Pale Yellow[/wiki] → Hirose Cherry MX Pale Yellow
[wiki]Cherry MX Grey Green[/wiki] → Hirose Cherry MX Grey Green
Thoughts?
http://www7.ocn.ne.jp/~hisao/image/M243EX.htm
MouseFan suggests that the "HCP" written on the switches stands for "Hirose Cherry Precision", the full name of Hirose Cherry AKA Cherry Japan.
Right now, we have:
1) Tradition
[wiki]Hirose Cherry MX Orange[/wiki] — standard key switch, linear
[wiki]Hirose Cherry MX Clear[/wiki] — space bar switch, linear
2) Sord M243EX
The switch in the Sord M243EX appears to be Hirose Cherry mount and appears to be clear, but used for a whole keyboard. Linear again. Same switch as Hirose Cherry MX Clear, above?
3) Xerox 1109 Type 2 Lisp workstation keyboard
[wiki]Cherry MX Linear White[/wiki]
[wiki]Cherry MX Pale Yellow[/wiki]
[wiki]Cherry MX Grey Green[/wiki]
[wiki]Cherry MX Lock[/wiki]
MX Linear White looks clear to me, not white (though MX White switches have been both colours), and all but MX Lock quite clearly have smaller keystems:
[wiki]Xerox Star low-profile keyboard[/wiki]
Most of the photos aren't quite sharp enough to be 100% confident that it's the Hirose Cherry mount, but it certainly looks to be that way. Also, kps's Xerox keyboard was made in Japan, which ties in with it having Hirose switches.
Since the main keyboard switch appears to be white/clear, the switches are presumably the same as those in the Sord M243EX.
What's interesting is that the Xerox keyboard also has the same "HCP" branding on most switches as in the Sord, and the same HCP/Cherry mix and match.
It's hard to be sure, but MouseFan seems to think late 1984/early 1985 for that Sord, i.e. very early in the Cherry MX lifetime, exactly as with the Xerox.
Questions
1. Is it likely that the same switch was used for the normal keys in one keyboard, and space bar in another? In other words, should I merge Cherry MX Linear White into Hirose Cherry MX Clear?
2. Are we happy that "HCP" means "Hirose Cherry Precision"? If so, then the remaining two HCP switches should be renamed, giving us as follows:
[wiki]Cherry MX Linear White[/wiki] ⇒ [wiki]Hirose Cherry MX Clear[/wiki]
[wiki]Cherry MX Pale Yellow[/wiki] → Hirose Cherry MX Pale Yellow
[wiki]Cherry MX Grey Green[/wiki] → Hirose Cherry MX Grey Green
Thoughts?
-
- Location: USA
- Main keyboard: KBC Poker MX Red
- Main mouse: Logitech MX Revolution
- Favorite switch: MX Red
- DT Pro Member: -
Yes I agree with that, that Hirose variants should be specified as such. There is also regular Cherry MX linear clear as well.
- Daniel Beardsmore
- Location: Hertfordshire, England
- Main keyboard: Filco Majestouch 1 (home)/Poker II backlit (work)
- Main mouse: MS IMO 1.1
- Favorite switch: Probably not whatever I wrote here
- DT Pro Member: -
- Contact:
My question was whether anyone had reasonable doubt that HCP means Hirose Cherry and that those switches are Hirose Cherry mount.
Do you have a reference for linear clears with normal German MX mount? I've never heard of those before.
Do you have a reference for linear clears with normal German MX mount? I've never heard of those before.
-
- Location: USA
- Main keyboard: KBC Poker MX Red
- Main mouse: Logitech MX Revolution
- Favorite switch: MX Red
- DT Pro Member: -
HCP is for certain Hirose Cherry. As for the linear clear they are essentially identical to black in every way but color. I found some once in a keyboad from 1984, and also have seen them in couple electric typewriter or at least I am pretty sure they were not the smaller Hirose stems. I think perhaps Cherry didn't use any coloring originally as there were linear, tactile and click switch with identical appearance.
-
- Main keyboard: POKER 2
- Main mouse: G9X
- Favorite switch: clear
- DT Pro Member: -
I got one board which the space bar with HCP others with hirose cherry.
- Daniel Beardsmore
- Location: Hertfordshire, England
- Main keyboard: Filco Majestouch 1 (home)/Poker II backlit (work)
- Main mouse: MS IMO 1.1
- Favorite switch: Probably not whatever I wrote here
- DT Pro Member: -
- Contact:
You should post some photos of it.
-
- Main keyboard: POKER 2
- Main mouse: G9X
- Favorite switch: clear
- DT Pro Member: -
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=502 ... msg1094325
This is my post in GH.
This is my post in GH.
- Daniel Beardsmore
- Location: Hertfordshire, England
- Main keyboard: Filco Majestouch 1 (home)/Poker II backlit (work)
- Main mouse: MS IMO 1.1
- Favorite switch: Probably not whatever I wrote here
- DT Pro Member: -
- Contact:
The photos don't illustrate what you just said.
-
- Main keyboard: POKER 2
- Main mouse: G9X
- Favorite switch: clear
- DT Pro Member: -
Yes
I didn't take that photo.
I didn't take that photo.
- Daniel Beardsmore
- Location: Hertfordshire, England
- Main keyboard: Filco Majestouch 1 (home)/Poker II backlit (work)
- Main mouse: MS IMO 1.1
- Favorite switch: Probably not whatever I wrote here
- DT Pro Member: -
- Contact:
So now I'm back to what I said originally: You should post some photos of it.
- Daniel Beardsmore
- Location: Hertfordshire, England
- Main keyboard: Filco Majestouch 1 (home)/Poker II backlit (work)
- Main mouse: MS IMO 1.1
- Favorite switch: Probably not whatever I wrote here
- DT Pro Member: -
- Contact:
Does that keyboard have a manufacturing date? If not, what date is showing on the controller chip?
It's always nice to have more dates for when these switches were sold. It's interesting that several keyboards used both the HCP and Cherry switches at the same time.
It's always nice to have more dates for when these switches were sold. It's interesting that several keyboards used both the HCP and Cherry switches at the same time.
-
- Main keyboard: POKER 2
- Main mouse: G9X
- Favorite switch: clear
- DT Pro Member: -
\
59 12 21 is 昭和59年 (1984 12 21)
59 12 21 is 昭和59年 (1984 12 21)
- Daniel Beardsmore
- Location: Hertfordshire, England
- Main keyboard: Filco Majestouch 1 (home)/Poker II backlit (work)
- Main mouse: MS IMO 1.1
- Favorite switch: Probably not whatever I wrote here
- DT Pro Member: -
- Contact:
So:
- cherry-jade: December 1984 (confirmed)
- MouseFan: December 1984/March 1985 (confirmed)
- IvanIvanovich: 1984
- kps: ca. 1984–1985 (based on what I recall reading, and a topic where kps gives the replacement as having been introduced in 1985 plus, "84" appears in several chip numbers on his 1109 keyboard)
- Daniel Beardsmore
- Location: Hertfordshire, England
- Main keyboard: Filco Majestouch 1 (home)/Poker II backlit (work)
- Main mouse: MS IMO 1.1
- Favorite switch: Probably not whatever I wrote here
- DT Pro Member: -
- Contact:
What do you make of [wiki]Cherry MX White[/wiki]?IvanIvanovich wrote: ↑HCP is for certain Hirose Cherry. As for the linear clear they are essentially identical to black in every way but color. I found some once in a keyboad from 1984, and also have seen them in couple electric typewriter or at least I am pretty sure they were not the smaller Hirose stems. I think perhaps Cherry didn't use any coloring originally as there were linear, tactile and click switch with identical appearance.
I don't consider it logical to class Type A white, Type B white, and modern white as the same switch.
If your theory is correct, and I've been thinking the same in this regard, Type B white is MX Blue. In other words, the MX Blue page should note that the switch originally started out life with a clear stem.
It's interesting to note that MX Clear was allegedly introduced in 1989, and Type B white was also allegedly introduced in 1989.
I would have thought that MX Blue was around before 1989, but I guess not.
Type A white is presumably the original MX Green.
Ideally all these odd switches would go here:
[wiki]Cherry MX mount recognition[/wiki]
-
- Location: USA
- Main keyboard: KBC Poker MX Red
- Main mouse: Logitech MX Revolution
- Favorite switch: MX Red
- DT Pro Member: -
I agree original white=blue, it's all the same click type, same force only difference is color.
I think blue appeared in 87 or so judging by dates on parts, though it's always possible older part stock were used to complete keyboards. Certainly was out in 88.
White and green coexisted, and had differences. Green mostly existed to use as spacebar switch on blue. White 80cN existed as a full board use switch and originally had a stronger grey click type swtich to be used as it's spacebar. Which seemed to have both been more or less replaced by clear/t grey as the higher force solution for POS/Industry stuff by 90 or something.
I think blue appeared in 87 or so judging by dates on parts, though it's always possible older part stock were used to complete keyboards. Certainly was out in 88.
White and green coexisted, and had differences. Green mostly existed to use as spacebar switch on blue. White 80cN existed as a full board use switch and originally had a stronger grey click type swtich to be used as it's spacebar. Which seemed to have both been more or less replaced by clear/t grey as the higher force solution for POS/Industry stuff by 90 or something.
- Daniel Beardsmore
- Location: Hertfordshire, England
- Main keyboard: Filco Majestouch 1 (home)/Poker II backlit (work)
- Main mouse: MS IMO 1.1
- Favorite switch: Probably not whatever I wrote here
- DT Pro Member: -
- Contact:
How do 80 cN "white" (clear) and green (also 80 cN) differ?
-
- Location: USA
- Main keyboard: KBC Poker MX Red
- Main mouse: Logitech MX Revolution
- Favorite switch: MX Red
- DT Pro Member: -
White is dampened click. Not as 'snappy' and quieter.
- Daniel Beardsmore
- Location: Hertfordshire, England
- Main keyboard: Filco Majestouch 1 (home)/Poker II backlit (work)
- Main mouse: MS IMO 1.1
- Favorite switch: Probably not whatever I wrote here
- DT Pro Member: -
- Contact:
I mean Type A white. You're saying that Type A white, which was clear, is the same as modern white, which is white?
-
- Location: USA
- Main keyboard: KBC Poker MX Red
- Main mouse: Logitech MX Revolution
- Favorite switch: MX Red
- DT Pro Member: -
As far as I can tell, if white has the black click part it's a dampned and if it has the clear/white click part it isn't. So, theoretically A and C should be the same. I myself haven't had a verified age A version to make a direct comparison against though so I can only go on what has been reported by others.