IBM Model F XT not working with soarers convertor Help

Fkazim · 15 Nov 2018, 20:11

Ok so I was just delivered my soarers convertor from orihalcon and followed all instructions for the convertor and no life from the keyboard but when I plug in my Epson AT protocol keyboard to the convertor it works fine Please help.

Thanks.

AJM · 15 Nov 2018, 20:45

My first guess would be, that the cable is damaged. Usually damage happens at the point where the cable exits the case.
I would open the case, unplug the cable and test, if you get a connection at the used pins from the internal connector to the external plug.
That's the pin assignment:

: XT-Connector.png (243.42 KiB) Viewed 4473 times

Anakey · 15 Nov 2018, 22:50

are yiou disconnecting the converter from the pc before switching boards? The converter will sense the protocal XT or AT from the keyboard it is plugged into when it it connected to USB and will then not be able to change until it has been unplugged from the pc so try removing from the pc before swapping the boards and see if that helps

Fkazim · 15 Nov 2018, 23:01

I plugged the keyboard into the converter and then the converter into the pc and it still didn't work.

Fkazim · 15 Nov 2018, 23:28

Any other ideas would be much appreciated.

PlacaFromHell · 15 Nov 2018, 23:30

Maybe you fried your controller some way. Did you tried what AJM said?

Hypersphere · 16 Nov 2018, 01:31

Do you have a genuine Orihalcon converter that is made for the IBM XT? There is another supplier of similar converters on eBay whose products are not up to the quality of Orihalcon's. I have a large assortment of Orihalcon internal and external converters, and all of them work flawlessly.

Fkazim · 16 Nov 2018, 10:13

What kind of cable does the original IBM model f xt cable use e.g 26awg.

Thanks.

Fkazim · 16 Nov 2018, 10:16

Just tested the cable red wire on the IBM cable is not showing up on my multi meter.

AJM · 16 Nov 2018, 10:51

If the cable is indeed broken, you could do an internal USB mod, which I've done twice so far.

First I soldered the two ends of the original cable together. (Testing it two times during the process to make sure, that the damage in the cable is not in these pieces.)

: cable.jpg (1.02 MiB) Viewed 4356 times

Then all you need is a long USB extension cable and you can put all inside the case together with the Soarer's converter:

: case.jpg (484.4 KiB) Viewed 4356 times

Fkazim · 16 Nov 2018, 12:54

Thanks for the guide but how would I be able to get the old cable out of the thick rubber gromet as I would like to keep the original sturdy gromet for the new usb cable.

AJM · 16 Nov 2018, 13:37

Do you mean, because of the exit hole in the case?
Well it can be a bit thicker than the original IBM cable, without problem.
And if you can find a usb cable, that's even thicker than that, you can always make the hole in plastic part of the case a bit bigger. The limiting factor will probably be, if the cable is able to bend inside the case.

Fkazim · 16 Nov 2018, 13:50

What I mean is would I be able to get a usb cable that is as thick as the original cable but straight not coiled and would I be able to use the original gromet without slicing it off the original IBM cable?

Thanks.

Hypersphere · 16 Nov 2018, 14:28

On my first XT refurb, I installed an internal Teensy with Soarer's converter and a USB-B connector so that I could have a detachable cable. This required drilling three holes in the case -- one of the connector opening and two on each side of the opening for the mounting screws.

AJM · 16 Nov 2018, 15:13

Fkazim wrote: ↑What I mean is would I be able to get a usb cable that is as thick as the original cable but straight not coiled and would I be able to use the original gromet without slicing it off the original IBM cable?
Thanks.

"grom(m)et" is this one, right? (sorry, not my native language)

: gr.jpg (14.6 KiB) Viewed 4302 times

(In my pictured case part A was already ripped from part B, so I didn't reuse it.)

Part B is kind of glued to the cable, so I doubt you can get it of without cutting it open on one side.

Then there would be the other question: How would you get it onto the USB cable in one piece?

(In my first conversion I did use the whole grommet after cutting it open over the whole length. Inside the case it doesn't matter anyhow. On the outside (part A) it has the cut on the underside and I didn't bother trying to glue it or something.)

Fkazim · 16 Nov 2018, 15:28

Ok would something like this work and also where does the ground cable go and is it necessary?

AJM · 16 Nov 2018, 15:53

Sure - after some modification - and if you can get it onto your usb cable in one piece.

The ground cable goes from the outer rim of the DIN plug to the bottom plate of the case. I don't know if the Soarer's converter passes it even on correctly or if it's necessary.
(But would IBM spend money and build it into millions of keyboards, if it's completely unnecessary?)

Fkazim · 16 Nov 2018, 16:53

I thought the ground was only there to discharge any static from the CRT monitors in those days?

Hypersphere · 16 Nov 2018, 17:59

You might wish to take a look at a conversation between Muirium and me on the topic of "earth vs. ground" and IBM XT keyboards:

workshop-f7/mounting-options-for-teensy ... 36-60.html

In any event, for the past several years, I have been using my XT with an internal Teensy-Soarer's converter without connecting the "earth" wire to the plate. Thus far, no untoward electrical events have occurred.

Fkazim · 16 Nov 2018, 22:20

Yay turns out the original IBM strain relief was sevoured also the ground cable was too and after some splicing of the cables the keyboard is now working Thanks everyone for your support

I have uploaded some pictures of the wire
connections it's very messy but it works.

Now just need to tidy all the wires up.

Hypersphere · 16 Nov 2018, 23:37

@Fkazim: Congratulations! It's always a thrill getting things to work.

Fkazim · 17 Nov 2018, 01:04

Thank you all for helping me get to this point

Darkshado · 19 Nov 2018, 16:19

Always fun to hear good outcomes to troubleshooting, one piece of advice: use shrink wrap instead of electrical tape.

Fkazim · 22 Nov 2018, 02:30

Thanks i will do.

Fkazim · 22 Nov 2018, 02:31

I got a second IBM model F XT coming which is extremely dirty but I got it for a fantastic price will do a full refurbishing log this time with lots of pictures.