deskthority

So I was cleaning up a Focus 2001 I recently picked up and found some blue alps mixed in. I have never seen this in any of my other boards. Have any of you guys found boards like this? Do you think this was a repair job or from the factory like this?

What dates are there on it?

You should be able to tell from the underside of the PCB If the solder looks different than the white ones whether it left the factory like that or not. Definitely interesting though

Oh WOW. If this is factory-spec, that's a beautiful indication that white basically officially replaced blue, as well as at which point the switchover happened (in that plant).

I would also assume the white Alps in this are a particularly early variant, and the blue ones are very late one. Most interesting. Could give a lot of insight into the clicky Alps timeline, this .

Brett MacK wrote: ↑So I was cleaning up a Focus 2001 I recently picked up and found some blue alps mixed in. I have never seen this in any of my other boards. Have any of you guys found boards like this? Do you think this was a repair job or for the factory like this?

That is an early FK-2001, with the plain bottom row (no "any" key or windows keys), which is the version that came with blue or white Alps. I'm keeping a database of Focus (and Northgate and Monterey) serial numbers and features--if you can share the serial number or a photo of the label I can tell you if it fits in with other examples on file.

orihalcon wrote: ↑You should be able to tell from the underside of the PCB If the solder looks different than the white ones whether it left the factory like that or not. Definitely interesting though

The 1 key is dead on this, so when I open it up to repair it, I will have to check.

Daniel Beardsmore wrote: ↑What dates are there on it?

Here is the Information

Brett MacK wrote: ↑

Daniel Beardsmore wrote: ↑What dates are there on it?

Here is the Information

Thanks, the examples on my list with blue Alps switches all have an eight digit serial number beginning with "8". Those with a seven digit number beginning with "1" all have white switches (so far), and yours is well into that range of serial numbers. As the guys have pointed out we need many more examples before that becomes "proof", but my guess (speculation alert!!!) is that the blue switches here are from a repair job. Comparing the solder connections will tell us more.

In the photos the white switches appear to have ALPS branding on the upper housings. Very early white SKCM switches, at least some of them, have unbranded housings like the blues, which also suggests (but does not prove!) that the blues here were replacements.

As Daniel B. suggests look for dates on the case and PC board. The upper and lower cases will have mold dates, and the PC board should also. The changeover from blue to white is by no means a "known" thing, but it appears to have happened in mid-1989 on Northgate boards (but not a clean break!)

Polecat wrote: ↑

Brett MacK wrote: ↑

Daniel Beardsmore wrote: ↑What dates are there on it?

Here is the Information

Thanks, the examples on my list with blue Alps switches all have an eight digit serial number beginning with "8". Those with a seven digit number beginning with "1" all have white switches (so far), and yours is well into that range of serial numbers. As the guys have pointed out we need many more examples before that becomes "proof", but my guess (speculation alert!!!) is that the blue switches here are from a repair job. Comparing the solder connections will tell us more.

I decided to open it up to take a look at the solder job. It seem doesn't the keyboard has been opened up before. The solder on all the switches seems to be identical. I Tried to get a good enough angle to see them in their full view. "d" and "f" are two of the keys with blue alps.

Brett MacK wrote: ↑ I decided to open it up to take a look at the solder job. It seem doesn't the keyboard has been opened up before. The solder on all the switches seems to be identical. I Tried to get a good enough angle to see them in their full view. "d" and "f" are two of the keys with blue alps.

In my opinion those two switches have been resoldered. The factory wave soldered pads won't have flux surrounding the pads, but hand soldered pads will, as you can see on the "D" and "F". Also the unbent leads on the other switches are clipped, while the "D" and "F" are not.

What are the mold dates on the upper and lower case and PC board?

Polecat wrote: ↑ Thanks, the examples on my list with blue Alps switches all have an eight digit serial number beginning with "8". Those with a seven digit number beginning with "1" all have white switches (so far), and yours is well into that range of serial numbers. As the guys have pointed out we need many more examples before that becomes "proof", but my guess (speculation alert!!!) is that the blue switches here are from a repair job. Comparing the solder connections will tell us more.

Just to confuse things more, Sandy also had pictures of a blue Alps version with no serial number


I have an example with no serial number that has white alps.

Engicoder wrote: ↑
Just to confuse things more, Sandy also had pictures of a blue Alps version with no serial number

I have an example with no serial number that has white alps.

My blue Alps 2001 has the serial number on a separate label. Also has a ctrl-caps lock swap option as on a Northgate, which I haven't seen on the later 2001s.

Polecat wrote: ↑

Engicoder wrote: ↑
Just to confuse things more, Sandy also had pictures of a blue Alps version with no serial number

I have an example with no serial number that has white alps.

My blue Alps 2001 has the serial number on a separate label. Also has a ctrl-caps lock swap option as on a Northgate, which I haven't seen on the later 2001s.

My white alps example has the separate silver serial number label and ctrl-caps lock swap as well and looks identical to your photo. Also has "MADE IN TAIWAN, R.O.C." sticker opposite serial number. Serial number is 80818943.

Engicoder wrote: ↑
My white alps example has the separate silver serial number label and ctrl-caps lock swap as well and looks identical to your photo. Also has "MADE IN TAIWAN, R.O.C." sticker opposite serial number. Serial number is 80818943.

Thks, I'll add that to the list. That's the highest 8-series serial number I've seen, and the only one with white Alps. Case dates on mine are 2-89 (upper) and 3-89 (lower). A late 1989 case date example (10-89, 9-89) has the 1-series serial number and white Alps. Yours probably falls somewhere in between, but that's just a guess.

Polecat wrote: ↑

Engicoder wrote: ↑
My white alps example has the separate silver serial number label and ctrl-caps lock swap as well and looks identical to your photo. Also has "MADE IN TAIWAN, R.O.C." sticker opposite serial number. Serial number is 80818943.

Thks, I'll add that to the list. That's the highest 8-series serial number I've seen, and the only one with white Alps. Case dates on mine are 2-89 (upper) and 3-89 (lower). A late 1989 case date example (10-89, 9-89) has the 1-series serial number and white Alps. Yours probably falls somewhere in between, but that's just a guess.

Mine has case dates of 4-89 (upper) and 5-89 (lower). PCB has date 1989 0406.

Polecat wrote: ↑My blue Alps 2001 has the serial number on a separate label. Also has a ctrl-caps lock swap option as on a Northgate, which I haven't seen on the later 2001s.

Same here:

wiki/Focus_FK-2002

Engicoder wrote: ↑

Polecat wrote: ↑

Engicoder wrote: ↑
My white alps example has the separate silver serial number label and ctrl-caps lock swap as well and looks identical to your photo. Also has "MADE IN TAIWAN, R.O.C." sticker opposite serial number. Serial number is 80818943.

Thks, I'll add that to the list. That's the highest 8-series serial number I've seen, and the only one with white Alps. Case dates on mine are 2-89 (upper) and 3-89 (lower). A late 1989 case date example (10-89, 9-89) has the 1-series serial number and white Alps. Yours probably falls somewhere in between, but that's just a guess.

Mine has case dates of 4-89 (upper) and 5-89 (lower). PCB has date 1989 0406.

Nice, that falls right in line with the others on the list. I'll keep logging the numbers and notes as I find them.

seebart wrote: ↑

Polecat wrote: ↑My blue Alps 2001 has the serial number on a separate label. Also has a ctrl-caps lock swap option as on a Northgate, which I haven't seen on the later 2001s.

Same here:

wiki/Focus_FK-2002

Thks, no FCC number on yours, but there's no reason there should be one outside of the US. The warranty tag is very similar to those on the early Northgates, and the separate serial number tags seem to follow the same numbering sequence(s) as well.

I should probably be logging mold numbering from the switches as well, to see if those follow the manufacturing dates of the keyboards they were used in. But being Alps there's no way it would be that simple.

I'm not aware that Alps switch mould numbers ever represented long-term dates. The only change that I'm aware of is the addition of a second circle to the mould, and my theory is that the circles represent drop-in rods with letters on, rather than permanent mould inscriptions. (The top-right codes, e.g. "10D", appear to be the cavity numbers, which are static.)

Daniel Beardsmore wrote: ↑I'm not aware that Alps switch mould numbers ever represented long-term dates. The only change that I'm aware of is the addition of a second circle to the mould, and my theory is that the circles represent drop-in rods with letters on, rather than permanent mould inscriptions. (The top-right codes, e.g. "10D", appear to be the cavity numbers, which are static.)

On most of the keyboards I've checked with Alps SKCM the numeric part of the upper right set of characters has been the same on most or all switches in that board, while the letter varies, seemingly from A to P. The letter would make sense as a cavity number (16 cavities per mold, 4 by 4 or 8 by 2?). I'm wondering if the number is the mold number? As in "19" would mean the 19th generation mold, and if so the number would increase over time as the earlier molds wore out and new ones were made up. Purely a guess at this point, but one we could prove or disprove by checking against the manufacture date of the keyboard. I have probably fifty original Alps keyboards here, most SKCM blue or white, so I can do some checking. We would have to take into account different Alps plants of course (blank bottom housing=Korea? and so on...) and any other variations. I'll be checking for those bottom logos also.

That's back down to the question of how long moulds last, and whether realistically Alps would actually burn through moulds.

Daniel Beardsmore wrote: ↑That's back down to the question of how long moulds last, and whether realistically Alps would actually burn through moulds.

I don't know about plastic, but we had a vendor making repro automotive rubber door seals and they made the molds from aluminum. Those went bad pretty quickly, so they made new molds from steel, much more durable. Probably a consumable even in steel, but whether they last days, months, years, or decades I really can't say.

Hello my dudes,

I work in electronics production, I do repairs. Stuff that doesn't go through production/testing normally, ends up in front of me. I have my own parts bins, and these do not have the high turnover rate that the parts bins in production do. In fact, just a few weeks ago, I came across some components made in the 90s! I bet the guy who repaired this board (because it was manually repaired, that is obvious from the solder job), probably had old parts lying about. Usually when a component gets phased out, it is OK to use it alongside its replacement until it runs out.

When making boards like these, the hole mounted components are placed on the board by hand, then put on a tray which moves on a conveyer belt into a wave soldering machine. If someone or something bumps the tray while en route, stuff easily falls off, and later has to be soldered in manually. This is probably what happened here.

The switches are plate mounted, so they're unlikely to fall out, but they could have had a run of bad switches, or switches that got ruined by the wave soldering process, that failed during testing and had to be manually removed and replaced.

This may however explain why keyboards with Alps SKCC Cream contained random Alps SKCC Black switches. Either black and cream are the same switch, or one replaced the other. Cream is SKCCBJ, which seems a long way down the alphabet, as though it was a replacement to black. There was some discussion on this somewhere months ago.

It's remotely possible this was a repair on a new board, but the chances of five or more switches being bad on the production line seems pretty unlikely in my opinion.