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vivalarevolución wrote:
chuckdee wrote:That's actually my choice that I'm considering. I have a 6, but giving that to my daughter, and trying to see if I should get a more recent 6 or a CX-5. I wasn't considering a crossover, as I like sitting low to the ground, but the CX-5 seems like a good compromise.

As far as purchasing, I've gotten to where the only dealership I shop is CarMax. Done it for my last two cars, and those were two of the most low-pressure buys I've ever experienced. Their financing is pretty good too.

We might be the same person. I narrowed down my choices to a Mazda 6 or CX-5. I went with the CX-5 because I wanted the extra cargo space and the ground clearance will be nice when I toss it around on the gravel roads I like to drive on and my inevitable driving over of curbs. The 6 certainly drives better, but I wanted that hatchback for just tossing loads of stuff in the back. I'm not crazy about all the electronic gadgets and gizmos that might break and be pricey to repair, but they seem almost unavoidable kn any car that costs $20k plus these days.

I think Mazda gives you more for your money than any other car maker. They are not high performance cars, but they aren't bore-mobiles, either. Even the portly CX-5 puts a smile on my face driving around town. I would consider it more of a wagon than SUV, because it sits pretty low, even with 8 inches of ground clearance. If you care about driving experience and design, this is the choice in the segment. It's a shame that the wagon market is essentially nonexistent in the States.

I am not a huge fan of Carmax, but I do appreciate that it is a much lower pressure sales environment than dealerships.

I hadn't really considered a Mazda until my wife wanted a 6. After hers was totaled, she went with a larger car- a Flex. But I picked up the Mazda bug, and it's been pretty satisfying. I just like the ride better than the S80 turbo I was coming from, which is strange since it's a lot lower price point.

What is it about CarMax that throws you off?
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Unread post04 Jun 2018, 17:18

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I actually really like the Volvo S80 R, but it's a very unassuming car to be sure.
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Unread post04 Jun 2018, 17:33

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Blaise170 wrote:
vivalarevolución wrote:I would consider AWD to be the current largest vehicle sham that the American consumer has bought into. FWD and snow tires will work fine for almost car. Ground clearance and AWD is something that people think they need for snow and view it as a safety feature, when it most definitely is not. For off road, get a proper body-on-frame 4WD vehicle. I view AWD as a performance feature that can make driving a bit more fun. AWD with snow tires just sounds like a good time to me.

Most people think AWD is a replacement for snow tires. ;)

This is very true.

WITH snow tires, AWD has a place as it definitely can provide an improvement, but only if the tires are up to delivering the extra power to the road.

I can confirm that I've been in wet snow and icy pavement conditions and felt the rear wheels grab in my AWD vehicle. Its a nice middle ground where I don't pay the weight and fuel economy penalty for a traditional 4WD design but I get some extra traction in inclement weather.

I understand the SUV hate, but not the crossover hate. Good crossovers get similar fuel economy when compared to a minivan or sedan of similar dimensions and engine displacement as long as you're under 60mph/100kmh. If the ground clearance and storage are important, then they are a decent choice.
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I've only owned one crossover and I hated it (Nissan Murano). The crappy CVT just felt weird and there really wasn't much extra space that a regular hatchback can't give. It was basically a hatchback with higher ground clearance. I've also driven my in-laws GMC Terrain and it suffers the same things in my opinion. I prefer being low to the ground, but then I also drive more "spirited" than the average American I suppose.
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Unread post04 Jun 2018, 17:58

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What I don't like about buying from Carmax is there no-haggle price is not competitive. I can find dealers with similar cars and lower prices that are open to haggling. But what I do like about Carmax is the lower pressure environment that feels like a normal work environment, rather than the usual car sales nonsense.
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Unread post04 Jun 2018, 18:26

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I heard car dealerships in the USA are very pushy and waste time. Looks like it's true!
Here's an Adam Ruins Everything Episode on them that I saw
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Unread post04 Jun 2018, 19:02

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savantstrike wrote:
Blaise170 wrote:
vivalarevolución wrote:I would consider AWD to be the current largest vehicle sham that the American consumer has bought into. FWD and snow tires will work fine for almost car. Ground clearance and AWD is something that people think they need for snow and view it as a safety feature, when it most definitely is not. For off road, get a proper body-on-frame 4WD vehicle. I view AWD as a performance feature that can make driving a bit more fun. AWD with snow tires just sounds like a good time to me.

Most people think AWD is a replacement for snow tires. ;)

This is very true.

WITH snow tires, AWD has a place as it definitely can provide an improvement, but only if the tires are up to delivering the extra power to the road.

I can confirm that I've been in wet snow and icy pavement conditions and felt the rear wheels grab in my AWD vehicle. Its a nice middle ground where I don't pay the weight and fuel economy penalty for a traditional 4WD design but I get some extra traction in inclement weather.

I understand the SUV hate, but not the crossover hate. Good crossovers get similar fuel economy when compared to a minivan or sedan of similar dimensions and engine displacement as long as you're under 60mph/100kmh. If the ground clearance and storage are important, then they are a decent choice.

The general car buying public probably does not understand the difference between power to the wheels and tire grip. Bicycles are the easiest way to demonstrate the importance of tire grip. Go find a mountain bike trail. Ride your road bike on it. Then ride a mountain bike on it. Notice the difference. And both bikes are rear wheel drive!

AWD with snow tires will perform better than FWD with snow tires in most situations. That is undeniable. But real wolrd testing shows that FWD with snow tires will do better than AWD with all season tires, which is what most cars have. For maximum fun, AWD with snow tires is the way to go (cue the Youtube video of "Subaru snow drifting").

I would consider the crossover market to be completely different than the SUV market. Often times, crossovers are just a hatchback on stilts. The Subaru Crosstrek is the best example of this; it's just a Subaru Impreza with a lift and plastic body cladding. And the mileage penalty is only 4 mpg highway.
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Unread post04 Jun 2018, 19:13

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Which is exactly why I don't like crossovers. It's like the worst of both worlds, not quite as agile and fun to drive as a sedan, but not nearly as useful and rugged as an SUV.
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[quote="Blaise170";p=415116]Which is exactly why I don't like crossovers. It's like the worst of both worlds, not quite as agile and fun to drive as a sedan, but not nearly as useful and rugged as an SUV.[/quote]

I feel the same way, the segment does nothing well and everything mediocre. But crossovers and SUVs have basically taken over the niches previously occupied by minivans and wagons and Blazer/Bronco, but don't have the space of a minivan, the driving dynamics of a decent wagon, or the off road capability of a true body-on-frame SUV. The only entry-level wagon left is the VW Golf Sportwagen, there are like 4 minivan options, and there are no compact body-on-frame SUVs left (unless you count the Wrangler). It all fake SUVs and gigantic truck now.

But people fricking love these things because they "feel safe".

Wake me up when America is out of car purgatory.
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Unread post04 Jun 2018, 20:07

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Blaise170 wrote:Which is exactly why I don't like crossovers. It's like the worst of both worlds, not quite as agile and fun to drive as a sedan, but not nearly as useful and rugged as an SUV.
Most of the SUVs out there aren't that much more rugged - a lot of them have decorative skid plates and components hanging down that are just begging to get hit by a rock if you take them off road.

Ultimately every car is a compromise in one aspect or another. I picked a smaller crossover with a smaller wheel base so I could get to work on unplowed roads but still have some fun around corners. I miss having a sedan every day that isn't November through March, and every day that I'm not going to a hardware store, but I don't miss it so much I feel like I lost out. Too many blind corners on my back roads committee commute to drive anything much more fun than what I've got.
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vivalarevolución wrote:Wake me up when America is out of car purgatory.

In case you haven't heard yet, Ford has eliminated its car division - the only car it will sell after 2018 is the Mustang. So I don't think purgatory will end anytime soon. :|
savantstrike wrote:Most of the SUVs out there aren't that much more rugged - a lot of them have decorative skid plates and components hanging down that are just begging to get hit by a rock if you take them off road.

But you can't hog the road if you don't have all of those skid plates! :lol:
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vivalarevolución wrote:What I don't like about buying from Carmax is there no-haggle price is not competitive. I can find dealers with similar cars and lower prices that are open to haggling. But what I do like about Carmax is the lower pressure environment that feels like a normal work environment, rather than the usual car sales nonsense.

Yeah, I get that and know it. I just like the fact that it's no pressure, and they stand behind the cars. After a lemon that I bought and had no recourse for, I appreciate that. I buy only used cars as I consider new cars not to be a good investment, so that is an area fraught with risk and danger. This mitigates that for me.
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Unread post04 Jun 2018, 20:51

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I buy my cars used. I'll let someone else take the depreciation hit and buy it for 60-70% off MSRP.
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Blaise170 wrote:
vivalarevolución wrote:Wake me up when America is out of car purgatory.

In case you haven't heard yet, Ford has eliminated its car division - the only car it will sell after 2018 is the Mustang. So I don't think purgatory will end anytime soon. :|
savantstrike wrote:Most of the SUVs out there aren't that much more rugged - a lot of them have decorative skid plates and components hanging down that are just begging to get hit by a rock if you take them off road.

But you can't hog the road if you don't have all of those skid plates! :lol:
I knew I was doing something wrong. It's time to attach a decorative winch on the front of my car so I can feel important, and so anyone who cuts me off in traffic won't do so anymore because I'm important!
chuckdee wrote:
vivalarevolución wrote:What I don't like about buying from Carmax is there no-haggle price is not competitive. I can find dealers with similar cars and lower prices that are open to haggling. But what I do like about Carmax is the lower pressure environment that feels like a normal work environment, rather than the usual car sales nonsense.

Yeah, I get that and know it. I just like the fact that it's no pressure, and they stand behind the cars. After a lemon that I bought and had no recourse for, I appreciate that. I buy only used cars as I consider new cars not to be a good investment, so that is an area fraught with risk and danger. This mitigates that for me.
There was a nice carmax like local chain that did this until carmax bought them lol. I buy from them because they have a large quantity of off lease vehicles.

The no haggle price loses you a grand or two, but you still come out 6-10 grand ahead buying an off lease vehicle with minimal mileage, and the lot is full so you've got options to choose from.

I like to buy with 20-30K miles on the odometer and then drive the car for 100K miles. Someone else before me pays a pretty high premium for those first few miles.
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Blaise170 wrote:
vivalarevolución wrote:Wake me up when America is out of car purgatory.

In case you haven't heard yet, Ford has eliminated its car division - the only car it will sell after 2018 is the Mustang. So I don't think purgatory will end anytime soon. :|

http://www.thedrive.com/sheetmetal/1773...-on-sedans
savantstrike wrote:The no haggle price loses you a grand or two, but you still come out 6-10 grand ahead buying an off lease vehicle with minimal mileage, and the lot is full so you've got options to choose from.

I like to buy with 20-30K miles on the odometer and then drive the car for 100K miles. Someone else before me pays a pretty high premium for those first few miles.

Heh... you sound like you have exactly my reasoning.
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Unread post05 Jun 2018, 04:29

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Well, this Mazda CX-5 is way more fun to drive than I expected. I am having smiles galore just commuting to work. Should have bought one of these the first time around.

Zoom zoom, baby!
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Unread post06 Jun 2018, 04:03

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vivalarevolución wrote:Well, this Mazda CX-5 is way more fun to drive than I expected. I am having smiles galore just commuting to work. Should have bought one of these the first time around.

Zoom zoom, baby!

Nice. I was eyeing a Miata but didn't want to get ran off the highway by someone driving an SUV while texting.
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Unread post06 Jun 2018, 14:55

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I have another complaint about SUVs in America - the idiots who always park in the compact spaces. We have a row of approximately 20 compact car spaces in our garage that are always full of SUVs. For reference, these spaces are about 8 inches narrower than a regular spot, so by the time I leave for the day I have to squeeze in through a 6 inch opening due to people with these parking in "compact" spaces.

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JP! wrote:
vivalarevolución wrote:Well, this Mazda CX-5 is way more fun to drive than I expected. I am having smiles galore just commuting to work. Should have bought one of these the first time around.

Zoom zoom, baby!

Nice. I was eyeing a Miata but didn't want to get ran off the highway by someone driving an SUV while texting.

Will that really be an issue? All you need to do is drive under the SUV and you'll be fine.
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Unread post06 Jun 2018, 18:05

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vivalarevolución wrote:Well, this Mazda CX-5 is way more fun to drive than I expected. I am having smiles galore just commuting to work. Should have bought one of these the first time around.

Zoom zoom, baby!

Nice! I might have to seriously consider it when it comes time for me to get something. Putting it off until my daughter can actually drive with confidence... gives me about 6 months less money to finance, hopefully.
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Unread post07 Jun 2018, 05:37

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chuckdee wrote:
vivalarevolución wrote:Well, this Mazda CX-5 is way more fun to drive than I expected. I am having smiles galore just commuting to work. Should have bought one of these the first time around.

Zoom zoom, baby!

Nice! I might have to seriously consider it when it comes time for me to get something. Putting it off until my daughter can actually drive with confidence... gives me about 6 months less money to finance, hopefully.

Both the 6 and the CX-5 have about the passenger dimensions and you can save a couple thousand on the 6 at least. Main differences I would say are cargo space, AWD, and ground clearance.
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Unread post07 Jun 2018, 15:02

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vivalarevolución wrote:
chuckdee wrote:
vivalarevolución wrote:Well, this Mazda CX-5 is way more fun to drive than I expected. I am having smiles galore just commuting to work. Should have bought one of these the first time around.

Zoom zoom, baby!

Nice! I might have to seriously consider it when it comes time for me to get something. Putting it off until my daughter can actually drive with confidence... gives me about 6 months less money to finance, hopefully.

Both the 6 and the CX-5 have about the passenger dimensions and you can save a couple thousand on the 6 at least. Main differences I would say are cargo space, AWD, and ground clearance.

Thanks! That puts it squarely into perspective.
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Unread post07 Jun 2018, 15:39

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Oh yea, and gas mileage differences, obviously.

Yea, and because they are both Mazdas, expect similar features and powertrains. They basically only have three engines and two transmission across their whole lineup right know, so I'm sure that's one of the reasons they can offer so much at their price points. I know all carmakers do this, but Mazda seems to have even more sharing across vehicles.
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Unread post07 Jun 2018, 18:09

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Saw this Lada when I went to the dentist yesterday! Pretty cool! :)
What do you think of Lada cars?
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I don't really have an opinion on them. Being an automaker from the former Soviet Union, many of these never reached the Americas due to strict anti-communism measures from the Cold War. I've never seen one in the US and they are not really interesting enough for anyone to spend the time and money on importing.
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Clearly neither of you are familiar with the Lada Niva, now simply known as the Lada 4x4. It's the car any adventurer wishes they had rather than a Jeep, giant pickup, or overpriced, used, offroad capable SUV.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/lada/niva
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I've heard of it, but still have no opinion of it.
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Lada's remind me of "Comrade Detective"
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This Moskvich car also looks pretty cool! These were also common during socialism in hungary. :D

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