A new US Republican thread 2016

New study shows again that the biggest beneficiaries of federal assistance programs (the ACA, but also food stamps, welfare, medicare, children’s tax credits, etc.) are whites with no college degree. A group which voted 2/3 for Trump and also largely voted for GOP Senators and Representatives.

We have a group of voters who vote directly against their own interests, and a group of politicians who throw their own constituents under the bus. Why? Because the politicians sell a sexist, racist, xenophobic message of hate which resonates with folks down-on-their-luck (we may be unemployed and living on government assistance, but at least we’re white, etc.) and corporate billionaires are happy to provide funding for intense propaganda efforts.

If the GOP ever manage to pull themselves out of their current disarray and pass any of their legislative agenda, their own supporters are going to be screwed. Especially in all the “red states” where federal assistance makes a significant boost to local economies.

http://www.cbpp.org/research/poverty-an...egrees-the
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Unread post17 Feb 2017, 06:33

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Following Trump’s meltdown, an unnamed Republican senator sent a text message to CNN’s John King:

“I got a text from a Republican senator who said in this text, ‘He should do this with a therapist, not on live television.’”
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jacobolus wrote:Apparently Trump is helping the German SPD. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/eu...story.html

The elections are on September 24, it is a bit early to know if Trump is helping the German SPD inadvertently. The polls are relative at this point.
jacobolus wrote:Following Trump’s meltdown, an unnamed Republican senator sent a text message to CNN’s John King:

“I got a text from a Republican senator who said in this text, ‘He should do this with a therapist, not on live television.’”

I think the whole show may be therapy for Trump in some way, this is his outlet, this is where he can "vent". Way better than twitter.
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Unread post17 Feb 2017, 08:25

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Gopnik, http://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-com...bout-trump

[...] The trouble with these views, and what makes them cheery but false at best—or sinister or opportunistic at worst—is that they are deliberately blind to both the real nature of the man and the real nature of the threats he makes and the lies he tells. Many autocratic governments have built this road or won that war or engineered a realist foreign policy. They remain authoritarian and, therefore, fatally arbitrary. In a democracy, our procedures are our principles. Every tyrant does nice things for someone. You cannot be a friend to democracy while violating its norms—and when we say, “He violates democratic norms,” we undermine our own point, because “norm” is such a, well, normal word. In truth, what he violates by his statements are not mere norms but democratic principles so widely shared and so deeply important that “bedrock value” is closer to the mark than “democratic norm.”

The falsehoods that Trump tells are of a scale and recklessness that, even if they seem to be of minimal harm for the moment, are still inherently sinister, not merely silly. The falsehood that Trump tells about the three million fake voters in the Presidential election is typical. No sane person—not merely no other politician but no one you have ever known—would make a claim of that kind: so obviously crazy and inarguably false, implying an impossible set of human circumstances. Their effect is not merely to comfort his ego but permanently to discomfit our democracy. This is not “I am not a crook”; it is not a claim that there are weapons of mass destruction; it is not “I did not have sexual relations with that woman.” These are all ways of parsing reality, or normal fibs told by normal people. Trump’s falsehoods are deliberate attempts to warp the entire field of veracity, so as to defy the simplest parameters of sanity. From now on, whatever happens, no election will be convincing to his followers—not the midterms, not the next Presidential one. Remember the three million! The Russians’ goal was not to help Trump alone but to discredit democratic proceedings, and they have succeeded. There is a telling moment in Selwyn Raab’s fine book on the history of the New York Cosa Nostra, “Five Families,” when John Gotti, after having his predecessor, Paul Castellano, killed, is overheard on tape deliberately “wondering” to his followers whether it might not have been the police who killed Paul. His listeners all knew exactly who whacked whom, but it was essential to his power to be able to make them deny even the most obvious truth of their own violence. When Trump suddenly blames “the media” for the departure of an adviser he summarily fired only the day before, he is engaged in a similar kind of reality-warping.

To tell these truths about these lies is not to assault or patronize Trump’s supporters; it is to remind his supporters that they are being deceived, and are complicit in their own deception. The boy who said that the emperor had no clothes was not an élitist insulting the plebeian parade spectators. He was a truth teller trying to awaken them to what was right in front of their eyes. It is not anyone’s job to pretend that Trump is anyone other than who he is in order to protect the feelings of the people he has duped. It is everyone’s job to tell the truth in order to protect the country. Élitist? Not a bit. The evangelist for evidence is the truest kind of egalitarian we have.

Relying on the occasional good moods of the autocrat or saying soothing things about how he doesn’t really mean it—look, he pays the mortgage!—is exactly how desperate families reconcile themselves to abusive fathers. It would be nice to buy the more benevolent view. What rational person wants to live in a time of perpetual crisis? But, try as one might, no reasonable person can. For to buy in is to buy into blindness; it is to pretend that a good policy (or a good man) can have a poisonous wrapping, and that a toxin known too well to history will this time somehow dissolve harmlessly, all on its own. It won’t.
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http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2016/11/...unsel.html
The appropriate response when the subject matter is public and it arises in a highly-charged political atmosphere is for the Attorney General to appoint a Special Counsel of great public stature and indisputable independence to assure the public the matter will be handled without partisanship.

– Rudolph W. Giuliani, Senator Jeff Sessions, et al.

Put your money where your mouth is Mr. Sessions.
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seebart wrote:
jacobolus wrote:Apparently Trump is helping the German SPD. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/eu...story.html

The elections are on September 24, it is a bit early to know if Trump is helping the German SPD inadvertently. The polls are relative at this point.
jacobolus wrote:Following Trump’s meltdown, an unnamed Republican senator sent a text message to CNN’s John King:

“I got a text from a Republican senator who said in this text, ‘He should do this with a therapist, not on live television.’”

I think the whole show may be therapy for Trump in some way, this is his outlet, this is where he can "vent". Way better than twitter.

Yet any armchair psychiatrist can tell you that expressing your frustrations through public appearances or social media is not healthy. Although it is entertaining. Americans did elect a celebrity entertainer, expert attention seeker, and master media manipulator, so we should not expect anything less.
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Unread post17 Feb 2017, 12:59

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Pruitt confirmed to head the EPA; GOP rammed through the nomination without letting his fossil fuel industry emails go public first (a judge ordered them released, after years of illegal stonewalling by Oklahoma). The GOP surely know that those emails will show Pruitt’s corruption and malice; pushing the vote through now instead of waiting another 5 days is an act of profound bad faith, and a complete abdication of the Senate’s constitutional duties.

Yet another disastrous nominee. This one might even be worse than DeVos et al. At least education is mostly handled at the local and state level. But a crippled EPA is lights out for enforcement of federal environmental laws in many parts of the country.

Pruitt is basically a long-term enemy of the EPA, who as Oklahoma attorney general has done everything he can to obstruct and deny it’s basic mission, via a huge pile of bogus lawsuits. Here’s a man who loves mercury poisoning, air pollution, toxic waste in the waterways, and habitat destruction, and who publicly denies global climate change.

He is a paid oil industry stooge, who as EPA head will undoubtedly do everything he can to illegally undermine the agency for the benefit of his patrons.

Every person who voted for Trump or for any GOP senator should be disgusted with him or herself. All of you GOP voters share responsibility for the health problems, death, and permanent damage to the planet which will result.

The institutional GOP is truly a cancer.
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Jesus Christ.

Trump tweets: “The FAKE NEWS media (failing @nytimes, @NBCNews, @ABC, @CBS, @CNN) is not my enemy, it is the enemy of the American People!”

I guess he’s going full fascist with his messaging now?

Does he have any idea what the connotation of that term is?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enemy_of_the_people
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enemy_of_the_state
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_enemy

This is the language dictators use before they execute their enemies.

* * *

Also continuing to set records for dropping approval rates. NYT has some comparisons https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/17/upsh...-mean.html

Maybe he can break the all-time record for disapproval rate, if his supporters ever wake up from their year-long fever dream.
Last edited by jacobolus on 17 Feb 2017, 22:57, edited 2 times in total.
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jacobolus wrote:
if his supporters ever wake up from their year-long fever dream


His supporters (27% of registered US voters) will never wake up. Never. They will go to their graves asleep.

But the other 73% can certainly do something!
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Any president is like a sports team, they will have diehard supporters regardless of what happens. I've always said that politics is a combination of sports and acting for ugly people that sucked at sports (yes, I know there are exceptions).

I'm sure that Scott Pruitt will have a fun time dismantling the EPA. I wonder how long he will last if these emails reveal some serious collusion with the fossil fuel companies.

The EPA is a world leader in public health that does way, way more than create regulations for fossil fuel activities. We are talking about cleanish water, cleanish air, remediation of contaminated sites, chemical testing and regulation, pesticide testing and regulation, grants for state-level regulation, farm pollution regulation, environmental justice for the most vulnerable populations. Dismantle it, sure. Maybe we can return to the days of people dropping dead in the streets from bad air pollution days, rivers catching fire, unregulated chemical dumps, and entire towns being poisoned (wait, that still happens because we don't adequately fund our environmental agencies right now).

No worries, though, because the dismantlers are corporate shills that will get paid regardless. Who cares how their carelessness affects public health.
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Unread post17 Feb 2017, 23:07

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Dear Alt-Left Diary,

Day 30. We will get them. And it will start all here. At Deskthority, mechanical keyboard forum. Where the people will learn the Truth.
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webwit wrote:Dear Alt-Left Diary,

Day 30. We will get them. And it will start all here. At Deskthority, mechanical keyboard forum. Where the people will learn the Truth.

Cute. I would like to play at this game, too. Let me try.

Dear Troll Diary,

I have nothing better to do today but try to elicit a reaction from people on mechanical keyboard forums rather than contribute to a discussion. I am so clever. This really makes me feel better about myself. Ha ha ha.


Now let's get nasty and throw around some personal insults. Bring it on!
Last edited by vivalarevolución on 18 Feb 2017, 01:28, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread post17 Feb 2017, 23:37

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Webwit: Can you elaborate about what you mean by “We will get them” and “the Truth”? I didn’t realize you were the sort to keep a diary.
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At a rally in Florida yesterday, Trump rallied publicly about European countries supposedly getting hit by terrorism because they had allowed immigrants from the Middle East. He mentioned the acts of terror in Paris in 2015, and ...
"You look at what's happening in Germany. Look at what's happening last night in Sweden. Sweden!? Who would believe this?"

Eh... There was was no terrorist attack in Sweden the other night...
A former prime minister asked on Twitter literally "Sweden? Terror attack? What has he been smoking? Questions abound."
The Swedish ambassador to the US has asked the US State Department for an explanation.

People on Twitter are having a field day... #LastNightInSweden
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Fuck you Google for ruining YouTube!
Findecanor wrote:At a rally in Florida yesterday, Trump rallied publicly about European countries supposedly getting hit by terrorism because they had allowed immigrants from the Middle East. He mentioned the acts of terror in Paris in 2015, and ...
"You look at what's happening in Germany. Look at what's happening last night in Sweden. Sweden!? Who would believe this?"

Eh... There was was no terrorist attack in Sweden the other night...
A former prime minister asked on Twitter literally "Sweden? Terror attack? What has he been smoking? Questions abound."
The Swedish ambassador to the US has asked the US State Department for an explanation.

People on Twitter are having a field day... #LastNightInSweden

The rational American sends out their deepest apologies for pulling Sweden into our factless political landscape. We hope this doesn't affect your country too much. #factsdontmatteranymore
Last edited by vivalarevolución on 20 Feb 2017, 02:54, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread post19 Feb 2017, 18:22

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vivalarevolución wrote:The rational American sends out their deepest apologies for pulling Sweden into our factless political landscape, we hope this doesn't affect your country too much. #factsdontmatteranymore

I would also like to say I'm sorry for this miserable embarrassment, to all the delightful Swedes here on DT. (This reminds me - I'm fresh out of cloudberry jam, sounds like an IKEA trip is in order.)
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XMIT wrote:
vivalarevolución wrote:The rational American sends out their deepest apologies for pulling Sweden into our factless political landscape, we hope this doesn't affect your country too much. #factsdontmatteranymore

I would also like to say I'm sorry for this miserable embarrassment, to all the delightful Swedes here on DT. (This reminds me - I'm fresh out of cloudberry jam, sounds like an IKEA trip is in order.)

I would say that the amount of impulse sundries purchases at the checkout line in IKEA amounts to about 25% of my total bill with every visit to IKEA.
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Unread post20 Feb 2017, 02:56

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Hey bro -- tiny Trumps can still put up a fight!
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Every time I follow a link to reddit I feel like I have fallen into a barrel of inscrutable gibberish.
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It's a bit more bearable if you disable subreddit styles, but I more-or-less agree with you.
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An article in English in the Swedish newspaper Aftonbladet, fact-checking the Fox News report Trump gave as a reference:
http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/g26...n-fox-news
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Unread post20 Feb 2017, 15:27

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https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/15/books/lie-to-me-fiction-in-the-post-truth-era.html?_r=0

TL;DR version:

"The problem is that, more and more, people seem to want to be lied to. This is the flip side of “reality hunger,” since a lie, like a fake memoir, is a fiction that does not admit its fictionality. That is why the lie is so seductive: It allows the liar and his audience to cooperate in changing the nature of reality itself, in a way that can appear almost magical."
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Unread post20 Feb 2017, 16:00

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So the NY Times are finally going to report on the Soros hacks? Oh wait. They just mean the other party's lies.
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This is the best article on the recent trend of lying and alternative facts:. http://verysmartbrothas.com/america-is-...tive-fact/

Here is the good part of the article.
Spoiler:
In the 75 or so hours since Donald Trump was inaugurated, both Trump himself and his representatives have done nothing but offer the America public a cascade of blatant, unabashed, and unapologetic lies. Some, like the size of inauguration, were relatively insignificant and only made significant by their shamelessness in perpetuating it. And some, like the lies Trump shared in his inaugural address — where he reimagined America as a dystopian hellscape that only he has the remedy for — are just plain fucking scary. Ironically, the only confirmed truth from this administration was KellyAnne Conway admitting that the lie about why Trump hasn’t released his tax returns was, in fact, a lie. (And then, this morning, she apparently walked that truth/lie/truth/lie/truth/lie back.)

It is also Conway who coined the term “alternative facts.” Which we’ve all had quite a bit of fun with, as there has never been a more apt way to encapsulate this president, his administration, and his supporters. The entire alt-right movement, in fact, is constructed on alt-facts, and their leader — their president — is essentially an 11-year-old creating plush and labyrinthine portraits of his singular prowess, convincing those who are barely paying attention of his truth, and pretending to fuck people who don’t exist while jerking off into his tiny hands.

Possession of these qualities would seem to make Donald Trump unfit to be our President. But another way of looking at it — an alternative fact! — is that this makes him specifically qualified. Our entire foundation is built on the alternative fact. We were founded and led by great and preternaturally just and principled men who owned other humans being as slaves, which makes their greatness and justness and principles alternative facts. The Constitution? An alternative fact. The Bill of Rights? More alternative facts on top of a previously cooked batch of alternative facts. The concept of Whiteness? An alternative fact. Our laws — well, the arbitrary application and enforcement of these laws? Alternative facts. The wars we’re currently fighting? Based on alternative facts. Our nation’s belief that we’re a singular force for justice and rightness and decency and duty? An alternative fact. In fact, you can argue that Donald Trump is the Americanest President America has ever Americaed. He is the supreme distillation of century’s worth of alternative facts; congealed and culminating into an alternative fact Neo.

No lies were told here today. Except, of course, the lie that the truth fucking matters.
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Unread post20 Feb 2017, 20:15

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My question really is how can all this go on? Trump has managed to piss of the entire media landscape at this point, even Fox! When McCain says "this is how dictators get started" he' got a point but somehow I have a feeling the disarray inside team Trump is bigger than we know. The munich security conference certainly was boring although Pence left a reputable impression to some degree, too bad he's not the man in charge. McCain was there, ranting and rumbling which is all he seems to do which is better than nothing!
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Unread post20 Feb 2017, 20:26

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seebart wrote:My question really is how can all this go on?

Pence left a reputable impression to some degree, too bad he's not the man in charge.


Many of us feel that Pence is just as bad, if not worse, in his own way, but I agree, it will be astonishing if Trump completes even half of his term. Perhaps that will be better, in the long run, because Trump's minions will desert Pence instantly leaving them with nowhere to turn and no one to represent them. Then the Republican Party can die the death that it richly deserves and/or whatever comes next will see the fringe severed from the base.
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fohat wrote:Many of us feel that Pence is just as bad, if not worse, in his own way...

I understand, apart from any political ideology he seems more "stable" and actually more of a politician than his current boss. Looks like Trump got a preplacement for Michael Flynn.
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Trump’s White House is in total disarray. This is what happens when a team of middle school bullies whose main experience is locking geeks in their lockers, peeping on girls changing rooms, shooting spit-balls at the teachers, peeing all over the bathroom floors, cutting class to go smoke weed in a nearby park, and watching TV all night instead of doing homework are suddenly installed as the school district superintendent and board. Of course they just keep doing what they know, which is goofing around, attacking people, and watching TV. Turns out they don’t have any kind of coherent policy goals and never thought about what they would actually do once put in charge. Lord of the Flies time.

Unfortunately for America, something like 25% of the electorate (and 50%+ of Republican Party voters) think that’s just what the country needs, and will be happy to punish anyone who takes Trump down. (Because “the elites” keep talking down to them with their “science” and “evidence-based arguments” and “facts”, and refuse to accept policy advice from that racist ranting uncle everyone avoids at thanksgiving.) So the GOP congress is cowed into cowardly inaction. Even through the Reagan era, the institutional Republican party was comprised at least partly of leaders who considered themselves statesmen and patriots, and had some moral principles and sense of shame. Those have all been forced out of the party in the last 25–30 years, with the last few pushed aside by the (Koch brothers funded) Tea Party movement, to the point that now there are pretty much none left. Now we see the results.

Pence would definitely be preferable. He’s an incompetent and terrible man who wants to turn the country back into a weird imagined 1950s utopia of gay bashing, women as chattel, and unlimited air pollution. But at least he won’t get us into a nuclear war if someone says something mean to him.
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