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@Menuhin
I appreciate your valuable feedback and efforts to make the discussion more profound. Thanks, to me the difference is:
She is doing something productive and constructive and positive, on the other hand, Serpentza & Laowhy86 are just two trollers, if only their criticisms were truthful, we'd be more than willing to accept them, but unfortunately their channels are just mild versions of " China uncensored"(another famous/infamous Youtube Channel focusing on distorting and tarnishing China.) The sole purpose is to make China look inferior and backward. Imagine a guy who is fluent in English he goes to the USA. he consciously ignores the silicon valley and all the merits of the country and deliberately chooses ghettos and drug addicts to make videos and put them on Youtube with trolling titles, what will you say about this guy?

@ matt3o

What you are saying is almost like: "We eat a lot of beef and drink a lot of coffee here in the west, But Chinese people don't, they must be miserable and how could this be okay for them having so little beef and coffee." But in reality, Chinese people may instead consume a lot of pork and tea, they don't have as much need for beef and coffee as you do. I hope you get the metaphor this time; we Asians put a lot of emphasis on family, on academic excellence, on societal ethics and morality, we don't put that much emphasis on nominal individual freedom as you do in the west; if we judge you with our Asian mindset, you will also seem rather wrong and pathetic.

What I'm saying is something may be completely normal and okay here but not okay over there, If you check Japan with western eyes you may have an impression that the whole society is designed to violate and exploit individuals' rights, it's absolutely not okay for Westerners, but it's normal for Japanese people.

Here is a documentary about working in Japan.


The Orient is rather different from the Occident, for centuries we've been learning from and studying the West, your languages, histories, cultures, political practices, the problem is westerners almost know nothing about us even today, that's partly where the misinterpreting and misunderstanding come from. Back in the day, you guys demonized Jews and blamed them when things went wrong, just because they are ideologically different, now you demonize and blame Chinese and Muslims...come on...the world doesn't have to run according to your criteria, does it? My suggestion is: Try to learn our languages and culture and history if you are really curious about us and want to have a better understanding of the world.

I remember there was a movie titled "Borat", many people believe Kazakstan is actually like what the film depicts, although it's a parody movie that shouldn't be taken seriously, well, people always believe what they want to believe. Some people just don't want to accept there is a modern civilized prosperous China and people there are living as happy as people from elsewhere, if not happier.

Last edited by Mr.Nobody on 24 Apr 2018, 12:58, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread post24 Apr 2018, 04:42

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@Mr.Nobody I haven't watched China Uncensored in a while, but from my understanding, they report on the CCP's bad things (Dalai Lama, Hong Kong, Tibet, Fallun Gong prosecution, cracking down on everything, South China Sea territory disputes, etc.), not about Chinese people themselves
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Unread post24 Apr 2018, 06:25

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Mr.Nobody wrote: What you are saying is almost like: "We eat a lot of beef and drink a lot of coffee here in the west, But Chinese people don't, [snip]

you are totally derailing. I don't know how the original argument has anything to do with culture clash. a censorial government should be condemned anyway. you said that china has censorship but it's good unless you watch youtube. that is the equivalent of eating the blue pill and being happy with it.
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Unread post24 Apr 2018, 09:42

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I wonder if we can get DT blacklisted on the Great Firewall so Mr.Nobody goes away.
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Unread post24 Apr 2018, 10:30

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scottc wrote:I wonder if we can get DT blacklisted on the Great Firewall so Mr.Nobody goes away.

He would be fine with it, after all he is in favour of censorship :lol:
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Unread post24 Apr 2018, 10:50

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Pretty sure people like him wouldn't be affected by such bans ;)
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Unread post24 Apr 2018, 10:52

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Ofc. He would not be calling China Uncensored anti-chinese propaganda if he was not a full sycophant of the Regime. The truth is that China has issues that cannot be resolved by an opressive government
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Unread post24 Apr 2018, 11:54

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As to the censorship issue, yes, Chinese government implements it in an explicit way, like putting a white cat in a room with dim lighting, you know it's there, you can see it. On the other hand, Western censorship is implicit and craftier, like putting a black cat in the dim room, it's more difficult to detect it's there, most people are not aware of it at all, but IT IS there, you are living with it day in and day out, but you guys sound as if censorship only existed in China, now think again who are the ones taking the blue pills? ;)

Ask yourselves a real question, what's really hinged on the belief " we must have something better than Chinese do, the Chinese government must be worse in some way than ours"?

TIM图片20180424191726.png


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In essence, an airport check-in is a cut-down version of censorship, isn't it, they decide what's allowed to be taken on to airplanes what's not, and you have to comply, do you feel more protected or more oppressed after going through it?
Last edited by Mr.Nobody on 24 Apr 2018, 12:56, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread post24 Apr 2018, 12:38

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I never said that my system is perfect. On the other hand you said that censorship is okay and you went as far as saying that it's okay because you know there is censorship.
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Unread post24 Apr 2018, 12:48

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All goverments spy and snoop and listen, some more than others. Edward Snowden showed us in detail.

Listen to the truth here: http://talkradio.co.uk/george-galloway
Last edited by seebart on 24 Apr 2018, 12:54, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread post24 Apr 2018, 12:52

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Mr.Nobody wrote:In essence, an airport check-in is a cut-down version of censorship, isn't it, they decide what's allowed to be taken on to the airplane what's not, and you have to comply, do you feel more protected or more oppressed after going through it?

I get that you really love China, but that comparison just doesn't make any sense. There are certain items that just make sense to not have on planes (e.g. guns/knives) and this is done for everybody's protection. Having your speech and web access censored/restricted is deplorable and shouldn't be tolerated.
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Unread post24 Apr 2018, 12:53

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seebart wrote:All goverments spy and snoop and listen, some more than others. Edward Snowden showed us in detail.

... while he was sitting on Uncle Putins lap :lol: :lol: :lol:

At the time that didn't disturb me as much as it does now, with hindsight ...
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Unread post24 Apr 2018, 12:55

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FXT wrote:Having your speech and web access censored/restricted is deplorable and shouldn't be tolerated.

That would bother me a lot. You know they are reading this right now also...
Wodan wrote:
seebart wrote:All goverments spy and snoop and listen, some more than others. Edward Snowden showed us in detail.

... while he was sitting on Uncle Putins lap :lol: :lol: :lol:

At the time that didn't disturb me as much as it does now, with hindsight ...

No, he was IN Hong Kong and then wanted to go to South America but had no choice and had to stay in Russia since Obama was looking for him...
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Unread post24 Apr 2018, 12:55

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Censorship to a certain extent is okay and necessary, that's why all governments have it. If censorship is completely removed, believe me, you will miss it. As for to what extent is okay, well it varies from place to place, this goes back to the "beef and coffee" analogy. Asians are more tolerant on this matter, the cultural factors ARE relevant here, get it?
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Unread post24 Apr 2018, 13:10

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Spot the brainwashed fool in this thread
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Unread post24 Apr 2018, 13:17

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wobbled wrote:Spot the brainwashed fool in this thread

I would get shot down for that like the other day when I just tried to explain that vintage MX blacks are almost as nice as overhyped nixies.
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Unread post24 Apr 2018, 13:19

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seebart wrote:
FXT wrote:Having your speech and web access censored/restricted is deplorable and shouldn't be tolerated.

That would bother me a lot. You know they are reading this right now also...

I'm aware that we don't have as much privacy as we should, but I am grateful that we still have free speech.
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wobbled wrote:Spot the brainwashed fool in this thread

You can't cough up anything concrete and tangible so you start calling names, typical...I don't want to feel I'm superior, but people like you are making it more difficult.
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Unread post24 Apr 2018, 13:21

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FXT wrote:
seebart wrote:
FXT wrote:Having your speech and web access censored/restricted is deplorable and shouldn't be tolerated.

That would bother me a lot. You know they are reading this right now also...

I'm aware that we don't have as much privacy as we should, but I am grateful that we still have free speech.

I think we`re all on the same page regarding that. Knowing that someone is watching is a good start...
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Unread post24 Apr 2018, 13:22

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seebart wrote:No, he was IN Hong Kong and then wanted to go to South America but had no choice and had to stay in Russia since Obama was looking for him...

That was five years ago and he is still sitting in Russia

The information that was leaked by Snowden almost entirely affected the relationship between the US and their allies while little to no discriminating information about the USSR or China have been leaked - countries that you would expect to be the main target of such secret US operations.

Russia has also become a major player in the Cyberwar sector since they took Snowden in. I don't remember them being such a force before 2013 but in the years since, they have suddenly become a very agressive and capable force in the area of cyber warfare.

I don't believe in anything the US or Russian government tells us, this is just me looking at what's been going on. Snowden might not have planned to become Putins little Cyberwar boi but to me it looks very much like Russia got access to all of his stuff and took control over the information that was released, using the rest to boost their own cyber warfare capabilities.
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Unread post24 Apr 2018, 13:23

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Mr.Nobody wrote:
wobbled wrote:Spot the brainwashed fool in this thread

You can't cough up anything concrete and tangible so you start calling names, typical...I don't want to feel I'm superior, but people like you are making it more difficult.

None of us are "superior".
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Unread post24 Apr 2018, 13:24

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seebart wrote:
wobbled wrote:Spot the brainwashed fool in this thread

I would get shot down for that like the other day when I just tried to explain that vintage MX blacks are almost as nice as overhyped nixies.

:lol: it's true though, censorship is never OK imo. I don't see why anyone else should decide what information we can and can't have access to. The internet should always remain free, and it most certainly isn't that way in China. But you'd probably get shot or something if you tried to argue against the government
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wow, they are good. they made them believe that freedom of speech is not essential in a democracy and that censorship is good. they are really good.
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matt3o wrote:wow, they are good. they made them believe that freedom of speech is not essential in a democracy and that censorship is good. they are really good.

If the people dont know what freedom of speech actrually is in the first place then thats easy... :roll:
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Unread post24 Apr 2018, 13:33

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matt3o wrote:wow, they are good. they made them believe that freedom of speech is not essential in a democracy and that censorship is good. they are really good.

It's not a matter of state, it's a matter of extent...too sad, you don't get it. You don't sentence people 20 years in prison for shoplifting, of course, it's a crime, but surely not a felony, see, it's a matter of extent. That's how far I can explain, you can't make people understand when all they want is to misunderstand.
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Unread post24 Apr 2018, 13:37

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The West seems to make the same mistakes over and over again in assessing China. Focusing on the Lack of Democracy Human Rights, Tibet, or Censorship etc.

All these issues are part of a systematic plan to retain national cohesion for as long as possible for the Chinese State & Economy to achieve its long term aims, via Belt and Road & Strand of Pearls etc. The mistake we seem to make in the West is only planning 5 years ahead (if that) China has a unified vision 20 if not 50 years into the future. And that should be real source of concern for the West.

China is slowly revealing its plans for the future of the world and we are talking about Youtube censorship behind the Great Firewall.
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Unread post24 Apr 2018, 13:38

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green-squid wrote:@Mr.Nobody I haven't watched China Uncensored in a while, but from my understanding, they report on the CCP's bad things (Dalai Lama, Hong Kong, Tibet, Fallun Gong prosecution, cracking down on everything, South China Sea territory disputes, etc.), not about Chinese people themselves

Dear friend, I addressed Tibetan issue in this thread, care to read the other version of the story?
off-topic-f10/if-it-s-a-joke-obviously-it-s-gone-too-far-t16833-60.html#p377922
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Unread post24 Apr 2018, 14:20

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man, if you happy with the current situation that's great. after all living is all about trying to be happy. fortunately there are other people that are fighting even for the freedom that you are not looking for.

that being said, I don't understand how kidnapping a 6 year old boy and his family can be justified. because that's what China did to Gedhun Choekyi Nyima (the elected Panchen Lama). They went as far as replacing him with a China approved boy called Gyaincain Norbu, effectively taking control over the succession of the Dalai Lama.
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Unread post24 Apr 2018, 14:41

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God...I missed almost all of you guys, but not Mr.Nobody...Definitely not Mr.Nobody...
Can we please exchange him and get Mu back? I can throw some keyboards into the deal if need be...
I wonder why you keep replying to such threads...
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Unread post24 Apr 2018, 14:49

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chzel wrote:God...I missed almost all of you guys, but not Mr.Nobody...Definitely not Mr.Nobody...
Can we please exchange him and get Mu back? I can throw some keyboards into the deal if need be...
I wonder why you keep replying to such threads...

listening and understanding his view is as important as the freedom we are trying to protect. "Freedom" is a huge word anyway, because nobody in any country is really free and probably the illusion of freedom is even more dangerous. People don't really care about it as long as their bellies are full and the smartphone has 4 bar.
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